Coco Growers Unite!
- Thread starter Masterofgenetics
- Start date
G37Kush
Active Member
Hey thanx for the great advice. Ya I noticed no matter how much water I flushed with, I couldnt get it under 6.2. It was very frustrating. But they aren't showing any deficiencies. I was just worried when it got to 7.0. So I'll just run with 6.2 right now and see if there are any signs of deficiencies.In my experience it's pretty typical for the pH to be a bit more alkaline in the runoff. I water at 5.8-5.9 and typical runoff is 6.1-6.3. I believe it's a cation exchange issue and is totally normal. Unless that plants look like they're having pH issues, there's no need to worry about the pH of the runoff.
On a side note, coco is better off watered on a regular schedule and not allowed to dry more than a day, especially in a 3 gallon pot scenario.
Snow Crash gives sound advice about flushing with low nuted water. I learned that the hard way myself.I was trying to flush with straight water and couldn't get the pH under control until mixing 1/4 strength nutes. Again, a cation exchange issue.
5.8 @ 200-300ppm (hanna) should do the trick.
Good luck!
Peace, pot and prudence.
I have a PH runoff of 6.3 in coco and the plants are curling and twisting (although I have only just got the runoff down to 6.3 from 7.0 by potting up and watering heavy with ph 5.0). Pretty sure my tap water is rubbish and I have to use loads of PH down. From listening to lord dangly bits and snow crash it seems that im going to have to flush very heavily to get built up salts out from the coco. Which means £££ down the drain on nutes etc.
Now ill see how things look over the next few days. Im tempted to flush the pots heavy in the shower to start with (as per lord dangly bits suggestion) and then do final flushing with ph'd nutes. I am also so close to pulling the trigger on an RO filter, because I suspect that my tap water just has too high a TDS and could possibly cause fucked up problems and the money ill save on ph down will pay for the ro filter by itself anyways and I feel that it's just going to minimise problems.
Im thinking ill use the sickest plant as a guinea pig for the shower room flush followed by PH'd RO water to see if this method is going to work, then replenish with nutes and hopefully ill have a situation that I can keep ontop of without wasting loads of nutes and PH down. What do you think?
Now ill see how things look over the next few days. Im tempted to flush the pots heavy in the shower to start with (as per lord dangly bits suggestion) and then do final flushing with ph'd nutes. I am also so close to pulling the trigger on an RO filter, because I suspect that my tap water just has too high a TDS and could possibly cause fucked up problems and the money ill save on ph down will pay for the ro filter by itself anyways and I feel that it's just going to minimise problems.
Im thinking ill use the sickest plant as a guinea pig for the shower room flush followed by PH'd RO water to see if this method is going to work, then replenish with nutes and hopefully ill have a situation that I can keep ontop of without wasting loads of nutes and PH down. What do you think?
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
Yes, it really is unless you're running a "true" soil garden.
How about the shower flushing to remove salts (ill try to get the water temp right first), then going in with the PH'd RO water before finally using PH'd RO with nutes.
Does that sound like a plan or what? ill use the sickest one as guinea pig lol Id rather that than see them all slowly die. That sound like a plan?
I think ill give it week to see how things are, and if things don't improve ill pull the trigger.
Does that sound like a plan or what? ill use the sickest one as guinea pig lol Id rather that than see them all slowly die. That sound like a plan?
I think ill give it week to see how things are, and if things don't improve ill pull the trigger.
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
I'm not a coco grower, I've only grown in it one time so I'm certainly no expert on this. I've heard and read that when flushing coco (in particular), that you should always use a diluted nutrient solution. I'm not sure if it's for the same reason that it's always been recommended in soilless, but it has been stressed several times in relation to coco growing. I'd stick with what is safe, but that's just my opinion.
Cloner X
Member
First off, i don't think the 'twisting and curling' you're describing has anything to do with the pH. It's more likely the EC (salt build-up) that they're reacting this way to. 6.3 is not that bad for runoff in coco. You don't need to flush with acidic water (5.0pH), just 1/4 strength nutes and 5.8pH. If you DO choose to run straight tap water through it you might rinse out the salts, but you'll also throw the pH out of whack and have to fix that with subsequent flushes with nuted water anyway. It's not a huge cost to make 1/4 strength solution, depending upon your pot sizes and plant count. For a 3 gallon pot, salts can be flushed and pH adjusted within a gallon or two of properly pH balanced 1/4 strength solution.
My theory on RO systems: so long as the EC of your tap water isn't too high, say under 100-150ppm (hanna) then i wouldn't spend the money. The tap water here is about 7.2-7.3pH and only approx 30-50ppms (hanna). So by the time i run the nutes into it i'm only using a few drops of pH down to get the pH to a workable range. (Nutes being acidic and taking it down to about 6.2-6.3 before adding pH down). The pH down solution is fairly inexpensive and it doesn't take much to make the adjustment. Also, using tap water saves me money on cal/mg supplements. That's how i've metered it out for my particular situation anyway.
Hope that helps. Good luck with your grow.
Thanks for the input cloner X, my tap water is 336ppm and leaves really bad water marks etc. So ive come to the conclusion that RO is a must for me. Im using way too much PH down (like a heaped table spoon per 20 litres) I just know that aint right.
Flushing with nutes also takes forever and it's a waste of expensive nutes and waiting so long for chlorine to evaporate etc it's just unmanagable. So ill do the ph'd RO flushing with weak solution and hopefully it wont take that much to get the medium right.
Flushing with nutes also takes forever and it's a waste of expensive nutes and waiting so long for chlorine to evaporate etc it's just unmanagable. So ill do the ph'd RO flushing with weak solution and hopefully it wont take that much to get the medium right.
ChroniCDooM
Active Member
Yep I switched. On my first coco and canna grow right now. 17 days since sprouting
LSD & Blue Mystic. Going great so far. Noticed a little nute burn on one of the LSD's leaves. Just mixed up some nutes at a lower dose For this weeks feedings. Hope that cures the burn!
vdubb808
Active Member
This is what I do when I flush. I use Clearex, (I recommend using a flushing agent, it breaks down the salts as you flush) because it speeds up my time flushing and takes away the uncertainty of wondering if it was flushed good. I flush with Clearex every 4 to 6 weeks, even if my plants don't need it I do it anyways. I use tap water and my water is at 410 ppm, no problems yet (one day i'll try RO'd water, just to see if it really makes a difference). I don't add any nutes when I flush, I just clearex it. And immediately after I clear my waste water, I feed as normal with the addition of a heavier dose of EM-1, which is an effective micro-organism supplement. I only PH what goes into my plants, I don't check the run-off. But then again everything is running fine, so I have no reason to check the run-off.
Here's a pic I took a week ago. They are in Nutrifield coco and I use an ebb & flow set-up.
I think the problem with our water is too much calcium, which would make sense. As the plants seem to be showing more than one sign of deficiency, ive read up that too much calcium causes lockout of magnesium, phosphoros and a few other necessary micro elements. This seems to tie in with showing multiple deficiencys (some leaves look yellow, some rusty, some burnt, twisted and also some older ones are very dark and clawed).
Also very concerned about the amount of PH down going in, and the overall salt buildup due to so many salts being in the solution that feeds them. Causing PH spike. If the RO water is the necessary tool to help achieve 1gram per watt then it's already paid for itself. As im feeding pretty much the same as everybody else using coco, it makes sense to me that the only difference is the water.
Cloner X
Member
Sounds like this could very well be the case. If you DO go R/O, please keep us updated. I, for one, would be interested to see how it works out for you and we can all learn from the input. Best of luck!
No worries Cloner X, the RO unit is being delivered tomorrow. It's a 100gpd 4 stage with Di filter at stage 4, although probably won't get a chance to use it until thursday. Ill start by flushing.
Ill let you all know how I get on. Scroggsy.
vdubb808
Active Member
Yup. Let us know how the RO helps. I want to use RO, I just haven't gotten around to it and setting one up. I think I will need to move to a new pad before I set one up.
Scroggs, you mentioned 1 gram per watt yield is that dry or wet per plant ? Curious because I'll be chopping soon and I will bw weighing in to see if I can hit that benchmark with my 1,000W or something close to that.
Cloner X
Member
Dry, cured weight is where the rubber meets the road. No sense in really weighing anything else. I'm sure that was what he was referring to. That's a good number to shoot for, too. Best of luck with it!
Well the RO unit is here and purging it's first hour of water (part of the setup process). Had some issues at first getting the thing to work lol and got myself quite wet lol but it's all working nicely now!
The great thing is about the waste water. My RO waste water is going straight into our cold water tank in the loft which feeds the Bathrooms for flushing toilets and cold water taps etc. So there is no waste water at all lol
And yes 1 gram per watt dry is the target fingers crossed.
Flushing begins tomorrow. Peace. Scroggsy.
The great thing is about the waste water. My RO waste water is going straight into our cold water tank in the loft which feeds the Bathrooms for flushing toilets and cold water taps etc. So there is no waste water at all lol
And yes 1 gram per watt dry is the target fingers crossed.
Flushing begins tomorrow. Peace. Scroggsy.
Wolverine97
Well-Known Member
That's awesome. Be careful not to let that thing overfill! Do you have any sort of safety shutoff when the tank reaches a certain point?
Well it's filling 25 litre jerry cans and im doing it manually. If that becomes too much of a pain in the arse ill get a reservoir and a ball valve. I think it can probably fill a jerry can in about an hour or two kind of. So it does not seem that bad. And I dont have to wait ages for chlorine to evaporate, so Ive already gained time doing other stuff and not having to keep to such a tight regime.
Oh and the cold water tank has an overflow which is way bigger than the RO piping, so it's all good there. Plus the minute someone starts using the bathrooms etc the level will drop nicely also.