Coco Coir

twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i just tried the rooting powder on the 2 seedlings. we'll see what happens. last time i didn't use anything and they seemed to handle the transplant ok.

i take it you aren't fond of a "theoretical grower"?
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No. I don't appreciate anyone that opts to ignore someone rather than handle a rational discussion. I also don't appreciate being banned from replying from threads like I have been multiple times over the last couple weeks just because.
 
Wattzzup

Wattzzup

Well-Known Member
Right now I’m rocking ~600 watts of cheap China LED lights. (No I didn’t tell the plants) The lights are like 5 inches from the canopy.
 
lusidghost

lusidghost

Well-Known Member
I just got back from a little hike and was feeling good, so I tore apart the coco from my last grow that has been sitting on my porch. I cut the fabric off a few weeks ago, so they were little 1/2 gallon molds of coco in a bin. The roots were super dense from the edge to the center. Some of them were too dense to break down in any timely manner, so I just chucked them into the woods. The rest of the loose coco was spread out under my bush.
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
lusidghost said:
I just got back from a little hike and was feeling good, so I tore apart the coco from my last grow that has been sitting on my porch. I cut the fabric off a few weeks ago, so they were little 1/2 gallon molds of coco in a bin. The roots were super dense from the edge to the center. Some of them were too dense to break down in any timely manner, so I just chucked them into the woods. The rest of the loose coco was spread out under my bush.
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You're better than me. After harvesting the spent coco goes in the trash. Although I have like 10 gallons of used coco sitting around that will probably be used as backfill. Maybe I'm growing as a person.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
I'm currently getting away with feeding my 2.2 gallon Air Pot plants in 100% coco during full flower only once a day at 1.8 EC. They are only showing slight signs of nutrient burn. Obviously the situation isn't ideal but it's the I can't manually feed more than once daily. Got to hop on that automation train.
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Dude, just set up a simple ghetto automation system. $50 and you're done. You will wonder why you didn't do it sooner. I have some plants in soil now, because I'm on a temporary break from coco, just to try something different to keep sharp, but this hand watering thing is annoying as fuck. I can't wait for my soil cycle to be done, so that I can get back to easy-peasy automatic feeding. I'm finally gonna get around to automating runoff too, which before I just did manually every few days.
 
twentyeight.threefive

twentyeight.threefive

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Dude, just set up a simple ghetto automation system. $50 and you're done. You will wonder why you didn't do it sooner. I have some plants in soil now, because I'm on a temporary break from coco, just to try something different to keep sharp, but this hand watering thing is annoying as fuck. I can't wait for my soil cycle to be done, so that I can get back to easy-peasy automatic feeding. I'm finally gonna get around to automating runoff too, which before I just did manually every few days.
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My runoff is automated into a 5 gallon bucket. The automated feeding hopefully will be done soon. My worries are the issues I've heard about run away reservoirs.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
twentyeight.threefive said:
My runoff is automated into a 5 gallon bucket. The automated feeding hopefully will be done soon. My worries are the issues I've heard about run away reservoirs.
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That usually only happens if you fuck up your timer schedule. That said, I saw it happening a week ago to someone else in a flood table they had just set up. They had left the room for a minute, and I was watching the flood table fill up, but then realized that it was filling up too high, so I turned it off for him. I looked at the timer, and he had one of his programs set to be on for 18 hours and 3 minutes instead of just 3 minutes. Good thing he has a concrete floor and a drain.

My irrigation is simple. in a 4x4 tent for 4 plants.. 15gal res, 2 small recirc pumps, 1 260gph aquarium pump connected to 1/4 drip line, T's and 4x drippers (pressure compensating) per pot. Can't get much simpler, but it works well. Since I use drippers, I can run long irrigation cycles, so don't need any timers more accurate than 1-minute intervals. I just use a wifi timer, because the app makes it pretty easy to program without screwing some program up. The one thing is if you are gonna have a flood, it's usually gonna happen the first day of setup.
 
A

A.k.a

Well-Known Member
Another reason you can use smaller pots is there’s more space for roots than with soil.


i just saw a story in the news last week about a guy who got busted growing. I’m assuming he had a runaway reservoir type problem because it said his house flooded and was dripping into the unit below his, and he was at work so the landlord went in to stop the water and found his grow.
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
crimsonecho said:
good thread good thread i’m inclined to do coco/compost/aeration mix in 4 20 gallon pots in my upcoming run. do any of you guys have any experiences on doing living organic soil with coco? looking at you @McShnutz

i’m trying this mix out with a couple of small plants in my 2x2 right now straight 12/12 and they seem ok for the time being but they havent started flowering yet so who knows whats gonna happen when they do.

lots of people say no organics with coco but i feel like why not. it has perfect ph, its inert, properly treated coco has very low sodium so it seems like a great media for organic farming. maybe not bottled organic nutes in coco is what people mean? no microbes in it originally to break down the organic inputs but i think adding some ewc and compost can solve that problem wouldnt it?
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When I choose a parent material for making a complete substrate, I pay attention to the pH(KCI) and CEC. Peat is higher than coco with cec, but very acidic and requires neutralizing via lime, consequently as it ages with active irrigation and microbial life, it returns to its acidic tendency and requires more lime. Add tap water bicarbonate to the mix with watering and you'll have a fixed alkaline substrate.

Coco on the other hand needs no lime and has a near perfect pH(KCI), this equates to less fluctuations and helps harmoniously to remain within target pH. Tap water bicarbonate isn't as big of a deal with coco in pots that are a dtw. But with organic practices pure water is best as we will refrain from ever leaching anything out, pots tubs or beds. Frequent irrigation is necessary with coco regardless of the style chosen. The cec of coco is dependant on the level of hydrostatic pressure. Let the substrate get too dry and organic coco will burn the shit outta your plants and you'll have quite a few problems. Due to its naturally high 02 retention coco makes for a fantastic parent material when used in conjunction with organic practices.
There's no difference in the way we would fortify the substrate. Compost, humus, ewc, dry ammendments and rock powders. The key is to always keep the soil hydrated. If your plants are burning, the coco isn't wet enough. Also with peat you can't have compacted soil, as this will certainly lead to small root systems and over/underwatering.
Coco you should pack the soil, roots will still grow through it with ease, and because it naturally doesn't hold as much water as peat, filling your containers loosely as you would with peat, will only make the wicking of water less uniform. Extra compost
crimsonecho said:
good thread good thread i’m inclined to do coco/compost/aeration mix in 4 20 gallon pots in my upcoming run. do any of you guys have any experiences on doing living organic soil with coco? looking at you @McShnutz

i’m trying this mix out with a couple of small plants in my 2x2 right now straight 12/12 and they seem ok for the time being but they havent started flowering yet so who knows whats gonna happen when they do.

lots of people say no organics with coco but i feel like why not. it has perfect ph, its inert, properly treated coco has very low sodium so it seems like a great media for organic farming. maybe not bottled organic nutes in coco is what people mean? no microbes in it originally to break down the organic inputs but i think adding some ewc and compost can solve that problem wouldnt it?
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McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
Also on a side note.
Just to help add some more info on coco and organics. I have (2) 43gallon compost barrels.
One of then is strictly for turning fermented bokashi compost into aerobic black compost. I also toss the cheese curd from making LAB in here.

And the other composting barrel is for manure, dry ammendments, indigenous herbs/weeds/plants and biostimulants.

So far I've rattled off the GREENs, what about the BROWNs? Yup, it's coco!! Fine pith, chips and fiber. Occasionally I'll throw in some cypress mulch for the wood loving microbes, but coco is the main star of the show.

It seriously baffles my mind how people can claim that coco can't be used in true living organics. It's a carbon. Just the same as Peat.

I know I've said this before, but Trichoderma are a well known for preferring coco media over peat. This is a microbe I will not ever exclude from my arsenal. The benefits are far too great to loose out on.
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
McShnutz said:
When I choose a parent material for making a complete substrate, I pay attention to the pH(KCI) and CEC. Peat is higher than coco with cec, but very acidic and requires neutralizing via lime, consequently as it ages with active irrigation and microbial life, it returns to its acidic tendency and requires more lime. Add tap water bicarbonate to the mix with watering and you'll have a fixed alkaline substrate.

Coco on the other hand needs no lime and has a near perfect pH(KCI), this equates to less fluctuations and helps harmoniously to remain within target pH. Tap water bicarbonate isn't as big of a deal with coco in pots that are a dtw. But with organic practices pure water is best as we will refrain from ever leaching anything out, pots tubs or beds. Frequent irrigation is necessary with coco regardless of the style chosen. The cec of coco is dependant on the level of hydrostatic pressure. Let the substrate get too dry and organic coco will burn the shit outta your plants and you'll have quite a few problems. Due to its naturally high 02 retention coco makes for a fantastic parent material when used in conjunction with organic practices.
There's no difference in the way we would fortify the substrate. Compost, humus, ewc, dry ammendments and rock powders. The key is to always keep the soil hydrated. If your plants are burning, the coco isn't wet enough. Also with peat you can't have compacted soil, as this will certainly lead to small root systems and over/underwatering.
Coco you should pack the soil, roots will still grow through it with ease, and because it naturally doesn't hold as much water as peat, filling your containers loosely as you would with peat, will only make the wicking of water less uniform. Extra compost
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McShnutz said:
Also on a side note.
Just to help add some more info on coco and organics. I have (2) 43gallon compost barrels.
One of then is strictly for turning fermented bokashi compost into aerobic black compost. I also toss the cheese curd from making LAB in here.

And the other composting barrel is for manure, dry ammendments, indigenous herbs/weeds/plants and biostimulants.

So far I've rattled off the GREENs, what about the BROWNs? Yup, it's coco!! Fine pith, chips and fiber. Occasionally I'll throw in some cypress mulch for the wood loving microbes, but coco is the main star of the show.

It seriously baffles my mind how people can claim that coco can't be used in true living organics. It's a carbon. Just the same as Peat.

I know I've said this before, but Trichoderma are a well known for preferring coco media over peat. This is a microbe I will not ever exclude from my arsenal. The benefits are far too great to loose out on.
Click to expand...
thats how i think as well on coco. good ph and good o2 retention should make it a good substrate for organics. i’m planning on using distilled water from my dehum anyway and distilled water leaches the lime in peat much faster as i understand. but with coco it should be just right. as far as cec goes i’m planning on using zeolite and ewc to make up for that cec difference between the two substrate and like with 20 gallons of medium i don’t ever plant to get runoff because i’ll not be adding anything salt based, mostly food for microbes.

i used coco in my wormbins too and they love it. its loose and wet and rich with air. it should be really good in organic soil if properly treated. at least on paper it should. and as far as organics and coco doesnt go well hypothesis goes i’m really thinking people mean bottles organic nutes in straight coco maybe. no microbes no nutrients in organics so that may be the problem there but with compost and ewc, it should work. i’m most probably gonna give this a go in a couple of weeks.
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
crimsonecho said:
thats how i think as well on coco. good ph and good o2 retention should make it a good substrate for organics. i’m planning on using distilled water from my dehum anyway and distilled water leaches the lime in peat much faster as i understand. but with coco it should be just right. as far as cec goes i’m planning on using zeolite and ewc to make up for that cec difference between the two substrate and like with 20 gallons of medium i don’t ever plant to get runoff because i’ll not be adding anything salt based, mostly food for microbes.

i used coco in my wormbins too and they love it. its loose and wet and rich with air. it should be really good in organic soil if properly treated. at least on paper it should. and as far as organics and coco doesnt go well hypothesis goes i’m really thinking people mean bottles organic nutes in straight coco maybe. no microbes no nutrients in organics so that may be the problem there but with compost and ewc, it should work. i’m most probably gonna give this a go in a couple of weeks.
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You'll wonder why you waited. It was a complete game changer for me, once I figured everything out I will never ever go back to using Peat based anything.

If you do have peat that's unused, like pre-mixed, you can use it with the coco. Try to keep it at or under 10% by volume. The high CEC can help but realistically is completely unnecessary if your rocking a loam farm.
 
F

fredfreddead

Active Member
Billy the Mountain said:
Bad in what sense?

Coco doesn't get hydrophobic like peat when dry
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If your letting your media get that dry you are going to have issues. I use peat bases
media and have never had it get dry to the point of hydrophobic. But pure Canadian and other
products can get that dry and the media needs to be hydrated before planting. Those coir blocks
do soak it right up. I think the peat holds nutrients better. What ever works for you.
 
Star Dog

Star Dog

Well-Known Member
I think I've mentioned something about the benefits of some perlite or that course fibrous coco.
_20220413_145325.JPG_20220413_145415.JPG_20220413_145352.JPG_20220320_133329.JPG_20220320_133351.JPG
Iime canna isn't the best for starting clones/seeds but it's a great for flowering.

Current crop fed 6x daily.
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3ltr pots.
Same plants 1 week after potting clones.
_20220218_202457.JPG
 
crimsonecho

crimsonecho

Well-Known Member
McShnutz said:
You'll wonder why you waited. It was a complete game changer for me, once I figured everything out I will never ever go back to using Peat based anything.

If you do have peat that's unused, like pre-mixed, you can use it with the coco. Try to keep it at or under 10% by volume. The high CEC can help but realistically is completely unnecessary if your rocking a loam farm.
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i dont have any unused peat left but the substrate inside my old fabric pots are mostly peat or atleast was but at this point i’m guessing its mostly compost because i have a shit ton of worms in those pots and i’ve been recycling it for some time now.

i’m thinking of reusing that too. so mostly old recycled peat based compost with coco and fresh ewc plus aeration is how i’m planning on doing this. maybe like 20% recycled peat based compost with aeration, 40-50% fresh coco, 20% aeration and rest will be ewc as a base and then i’ll add a balanced bat guano 3-4-3, farmyard manure and neem. also will be adding basalt dust, lava rock dust, wheat bran for fungi and thinking of soybean meal but not 100% on that so we’ll see. gonna cover it with hay and hope for the best :)

well i’m definitely gonna give this a go
 
McShnutz

McShnutz

Well-Known Member
crimsonecho said:
i dont have any unused peat left but the substrate inside my old fabric pots are mostly peat or atleast was but at this point i’m guessing its mostly compost because i have a shit ton of worms in those pots and i’ve been recycling it for some time now.

i’m thinking of reusing that too. so mostly old recycled peat based compost with coco and fresh ewc plus aeration is how i’m planning on doing this. maybe like 20% recycled peat based compost with aeration, 40-50% fresh coco, 20% aeration and rest will be ewc as a base and then i’ll add a balanced bat guano 3-4-3, farmyard manure and neem. also will be adding basalt dust, lava rock dust, wheat bran for fungi and thinking of soybean meal but not 100% on that so we’ll see. gonna cover it with hay and hope for the best :)

well i’m definitely gonna give this a go
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Sounds like a solid mix!! If you have a weed Wacker, gas or electric... put the hay/straw in a round trash can and turn it into little bits. When wet they lock together much denser than un-cut longer strands, and you can get a more effective mulch layer.

I can tell aside from the context of this thread, you've put alot of careful and meaningful thought into your next round. Don't overthink it tho, follow your intuitive nature and applied experience. Your gonna have a nice crop!!
 
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