COB Manufacturers other than CREE or BRIDGELUX

BOBBY_G said:

lolnoobs

im getting 100000 lumens at absolute zero

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Lol

Of course us physics trivia winners know that because all atomic movement stops at absolute zero, your chip is actually completely dark.

Assuming you aren't lying and you managed the impossible task of actually getting it to absolute zero!

Totally dig the joke tho. My inner nerd is cracking up.

BOBBY_G said:

lolnoobs

im getting 100000 lumens at absolute zero

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Nice!

BOBBY_G said:

lolnoobs

im getting 100000 lumens at absolute zero

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Nuh uh- no forward voltage at absolute zero!

I know this isn't the right way to read the pdf I posted, but if you add the ppf and the A-ppf together, the high cri is well above. I will try to see what a cheap (hydrofarms) PAR meter will say between the 70 cri 3000K and the 90+cri 2700K.
I do have a couple sample holders for the Citizen. The coolest one is a full ceramic holder. It is fragile ( I shattered the first on I received ), it has a bottom plate, and they are less than $3. I also have one that is like a fiber board, also have to make sure you don't separate the layers. These are the 2 input CLU550 holders. I plan on taking some temperature readings with both of these holders to see if that plate helps or hurts.

And for the CLU056/58 I have the BJBs.

medicinehuman said:

Nice!

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you should see the crystals. frost everywhere

mad shatter over here

ttystikk said:

4-50C is a BIG range. Can you narrow it down a little?

Believe me when I tell you that my CXB3590 chips are running cooler than yours.

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Sorry for the typo, I obviously meant 4-5°C. cxb3590 are way out of my price range, and in my opinion, not really interesting for diy setups. CLU-048 (former 046) and cxb3070 happen to have the ideal LES size to refit commercial tracking lamps = heatsink, lens, reflector, holder, support all taking care of, including the possibility to change the light source direction just by turning the lamp. The really nice part, is that you can get decent tracking lamps for a bargain every time some overpriced fashion shop in the neighbourhood closes...
But than again, I'm into indoor permaculture, not marijuana growing, and mostly work with wall greening now, which require side light source.

qwerkus said:

Sorry for the typo, I obviously meant 4-5°C. cxb3590 are way out of my price range, and in my opinion, not really interesting for diy setups. CLU-048 (former 046) and cxb3070 happen to have the ideal LES size to refit commercial tracking lamps = heatsink, lens, reflector, holder, support all taking care of, including the possibility to change the light source direction just by turning the lamp. The really nice part, is that you can get decent tracking lamps for a bargain every time some overpriced fashion shop in the neighbourhood closes...
But than again, I'm into indoor permaculture, not marijuana growing, and mostly work with wall greening now, which require side light source.

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Lol, I'm currently running 5400W of COB LED vertically, using those very same 'uninteresting' CXB3590 chips you're poo pooing. You wanna see some green walls, bro? Scope my thread, link in my sig line.

qwerkus said:

Have you seen the update on citizen cobs ? Now version 5: http://ce.citizen.co.jp/productse/info.php?no=107

Not much of a revolution in terms of watt-to-luminosity, but nice decrease in thermal resistance. That's truely where citizen shines: they are easy to cool. My clu-046, now running for 5months straight is constantly 4-50°C cooler than my cxb3070, albight running at 4W more. If only the chips were easier to source....

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The thing about citizen that really stands out, over all the others is the lumen maintenance.

Hey guys, great discussion, thanks for all the info you're spreading. If some of you could help me make a good dessision please, hehe so i don't fuck this up:

Im thinking about getting these two Citizen COBs and run them at low current with meanwell hbg-60-1050 (37-55Vdc), according to manufacturers data, performance would be some like this:

These are 3000k, 70 CRI:

- CLU048-1818C4-30AL7K3 > 8832lm > 50,9 V > 53,5 W > 165 lm/w > $25,43
- CLU058-1825C4-30AL7K3 > 9426lm > 49.9 V > 52,4 W > 180 lm/w > $42,8

Would those be a good choice? was looking also in CREE's cxb3070, cxb3590, $31 i found the 3070's and 42,5 the 3590's, $35 shipping for 20 units.

Any thoughts are welcome, thank's and as soon as i get my fixtures done i guess i'll come to add more data to these experiments.

hi,
CXB3590-0000-000N0HCD35G should be better choise then CLU058-1825C4-30AL7K3. cxb should be around 182 lm/w at 48,5watt and it has better spectrum, more red for flower(CXB3590-0000-000N0HCD35G has cri 80 and the CLU058-1825C4-30AL7K3 only cri 70 )

edit: after i checked the pdfs from both cobs again, im not pretty sure about the red. maybe they have similar red part in spectrum

Thanks for the reply... one or two doubts i have

- cxb3590 was $46, i missed, vs the $42,5 of the CLU58
- you think the 3590 would have more red light? even being the 3590 3500k and the CLU058 3000k?
- is the CRI value really important for grow applications? wouldn't it be better to gain the extra lumen of a lower CRI?

CXB3590 would mean a little more expenssive, like $100 more for the whole project, considering shipping and cost differences... is it worth the extra cost? or would the CLU058 perform almost equally? thanks

Chirulazo said:

Thanks for the reply... one or two doubts i have

- cxb3590 was $46, i missed, vs the $42,5 of the CLU58
- you think the 3590 would have more red light? even being the 3590 3500k and the CLU058 3000k?
- is the CRI value really important for grow applications? wouldn't it be better to gain the extra lumen of a lower CRI?

CXB3590 would mean a little more expenssive, like $100 more for the whole project, considering shipping and cost differences... is it worth the extra cost? or would the CLU058 perform almost equally? thanks

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Cutter and Pacific Light Concepts both sell CXB3590's with a discount code bringing cost down to I think like $40-43?

@Chirulazo

Check out the CLU048-1212C4 at 1.4A as well. It outperforms a Vero 29 at all currents, and costs $12.50. 8000 lumens, and around 160lm/W.

I went with CLU048-1818 for my build, running soft. Although the cool thing about the 1818 and above is that if you run hard they outperform the Crees, starting at about 75W, and even at 100W they are above 150lm/W. But Cree is still king of the low current builds.

And the CLU058, forget about it, super good at high currents.

No reason to buy a Vero except availability at this point. That will likely change next generation, but Citizen's are really good, and all these companies running CXBs hard might want to look at efficiency numbers for the Citizens. If I was selling a light it'd be $25 CLU048s chugging along hot.

There is a good spreadsheet at http://ce.citizen.co.jp/lighting_led/dl_data/sim/CITILED_ver5_Selection_Tool_WEB.xlsx which is where I got these numbers, at Tj=50 to compare with Supra's spreadsheets.

@JorgeGonzales

Yeah i also saw that fixture you're saying with the CLU048 running at 1400mah, in fact that was my first idea, but then saw those other 2 options that gave way better efficacy. I also used that sheet, only in the one i have, values are a bit lower, for instance CLU058 at 1050mah rates 180lm/w in my sheet and 184lm/w in the one you posted... gues that's like the error margin you will find here and there...

So, from what u saying then CXB3590 would work better in a 50W fixture... but i'm thinking if it would be worth the extra 100 i would need for the whole project... or if with the CLU058 i'll be just fine and almost at same level as if with the 3590's... at this level i guess differences would be almost anecdotic, for example getting to differences like 180lm/w vs 182lm/w or such... or do you think there could be significant differences between the two that could justify the extra cost?

I can get all citizen and hetsinks power supplies and all from same supplier... so shipping costs and everything decrease a bit... if using 3590´s that would mean getting power supplies, heatsinks and etc from one supplier and 3590's from another supplier, more shipping costs and more trouble.... so, that's my doubt, is i worth going that extra cost/trouble to upgrade from CLU058 to CXB3590, or with CLU058 would be just almost the same thing?...

Thanks a lot for you help...

I was probably looking at 4000k, out of habit, which explains the different numbers. Also, when you get Cree bins at lower color temps, they start pulling ahead of companies that don't bin, if that makes sense.

Anyway, looks like 171 vs 182lm/w, so I guess do the math. See how much you save and how much less electricity you'd waste and go from there. Looks like 6% more to power me, give or take. So maybe 24 watts in a 400W build, whatever that costs per grow. Once you reach Cree prices and run soft they are going to come out ahead, but it's pretty close in this case.

@JorgeGonzales

But in this case would be

CLU058 3000K 70 CRI > 180 lm/watt > $42,8
vs
CREE CXB3590 3500K 80 CRI CD bin> 182 lm/w(?) > $46

it's almost the same in numbers... any particular reason why CREE's would do better?

And also the cost-efficient option of

CLU048 3000K 70 CRI > 165 lm/w > $25 (this one seems like a better option than CXB3070, right?)

@Chirulazo I honestly don't know if the Cree would do better. Secretly, I'm not sure anybody knows how important CRI is, there are arguments on both sides. I went with 80 CRi becuse it was in stock.

And yeah, just get the CLU048 if your choice is between those two. It's cheaper and just as efficient at 50W from what Supra's spreadsheets say.

different CRIs have different specturms which are often shown on a datasheet. theres no reason inherently 90 would be better than 80 or 70 for growing plants, but each have different spectrums so one is prob closer to what you want to do with it..

see cree 3590 datasheet

3000 90 cri has a better centered red peak but also higher relative blue peak, and alos extends well into 700s and might promote stretching. is it better than 80 cri 3000? hard to say.

if simulating the suns color spectrum was the only criteria people wouldnt be kicking ass with hps and blurples on the reg.

JorgeGonzales said:

@Chirulazo
I went with CLU048-1818 for my build, running soft. Although the cool thing about the 1818 and above is that if you run hard they outperform the Crees, starting at about 75W, and even at 100W they are above 150lm/W. But Cree is still king of the low current builds.

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Not so sure about this one. I have two lamps hanging next to each other, one cxb3070 and one clu048-1818, both 5000k, both 50W. On my cheap luxmeter, the citizen is around 3% brighter, and 4°C cooler. Since I'm running everything all passive, the latter makes quite a difference. Not bad for a chip I got for free (sample)...

JorgeGonzales said:

@Chirulazo I honestly don't know if the Cree would do better. Secretly, I'm not sure anybody knows how important CRI is, there are arguments on both sides. I went with 80 CRi becuse it was in stock.

And yeah, just get the CLU048 if your choice is between those two. It's cheaper and just as efficient at 50W from what Supra's spreadsheets say.

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I know that CRI is not directly related to yield, it's a general indicator of how broad spectrum the light source is.

HPS grows good bud, and it's only 22 CRI.

860W CDM lamps are 93CRI and yet while frost is amazing, yield isn't.

EDIT: low yields for the 860W Allstart are fairly blamed on its ballast requirements. Friends and I are testing Low Frequency Square Wave digital ballasts which show great potential to not only properly drive the lamp, but also to boost its efficiency up into the same range as the 315W CMH system- not coincidentally, also a CDM lamp, using LFSW ballast technology.