medicineman
New Member
The repukes are very agitated in defeat, one they deserve now and in November. Read it here first, republican rout in Nov. 2010., super majority reinforced by democrats, 63-37. HO HO HO.
Centrists and Patriots: Control Your Glee!
- Thread starter upnorth2505
- Start date
dukeofbaja
New Member
One good thing about it all, I can now dump my health insurance and just pay the government fine, then when I get hurt or sick I can just purchase insurance then.
Anyone ever heard the old saying... "better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it"? This statement shows that your understanding of what this bill may do is for shit. Not surprising considering your normal line of reasoning when railing against it is similarly uneducated. If you choose to shun insurance and pay the fine, you will still lose everything should you get into an accident or become suddenly ill. I'm sure your wife would like living under a bridge though.
Bahahahaha!!!!This is exactly what I told my wife we should do.
Anyone ever heard the old saying... "better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and prove it"? This statement shows that your understanding of what this bill may do is for shit. Not surprising considering your normal line of reasoning when railing against it is similarly uneducated. If you choose to shun insurance and pay the fine, you will still lose everything should you get into an accident or become suddenly ill. I'm sure your wife would like living under a bridge though.
doc111
Well-Known Member
Well, you know me; doc the political forum idiot.
Here is a post I made yesterday in the "Obamacare" thread in Toke 'n Talk. It explains a little more clearly why I feel the way I do. Don't start judging me when you know absolutely nothing about me. I have some very personal reasons for feeling the way I feel and I have a lot of insight into the medical field that a lot of people on here lack. So, think whatever you want but just remember that not everyone who disagrees with you is just some retard my friend.
The Europeans who love it have either never been really sick or they haven't had a loved one get really sick. Europe is in big trouble. Greece has recently suffered a severe collapse and the E.U. will soon suffer from the fallout. There may even be a domino effect. We just don't know but it's not good. Massachusettes, which is supposed to be the model on which Obamacare was designed is in a huge financial crisis because of.............you guessed it! Universal healthcare! I've said it before and I will continue to say it, I would be behind this bill if I thought it would help. Unfortunately, it doesn't matter now because it's passed. We'll see what happens next. I don't expect the house to burn down immediately but I think it will eventually. I hope I'm wrong, I really do. I don't want bad things to happen because of this bill. But have we learned nothing from the past? There are always unintended consequences and many will be hurt because of this. You don't have to be a fortune teller to see that. I want you to know that I had a serious accident as a result of an on the job injury. I was covered by work comp for a couple of years then they dropped me without warning. I found out when I went to pick up a prescription and had to pay out of pocket. I hired a lawyer (which I couldn't afford) and fought them. I walked away with a paltry sum which far from pays my medical costs. I will need medication and treatment for the rest of my life because of this accident. This is an example of how the govt. will treat its people. I was a govt. employee and this was state run work comp. I know firsthand how people are treated by the govt. when it comes to healthcare. This is one of the reasons I'm so opposed to this...........I have actually dealt with it! The fire dept. and the community awarded me a medal for bravery for my actions which led to my injury. Unfortunately I took it to a pawn broker and he said he'd give me 20 bucks for it. If a firefighter who was injured in the line of duty while trying to save a life is treated in this way, what do you think is in store for the rest of us? BTW, here is a link you might be interested in:
http://econ.economicshelp.org/2009/0...ing-in-uk.html
doc111
Well-Known Member
Ummmm, I am sure that there are just as many democrats who are lawyers. And get your facts straight. Obama said that they included some of the things the republicans wanted. I don't know why none of them voted for it except the fact that it goes against everything we stand for in this country (or at least used to stand for). Hopefully the govt. doesn't start doing drug testing in order to get coverage. It wouldn't surprise me.
Mindmelted
Well-Known Member
Now we are really fucked.....
paintsprayer71
Well-Known Member
i personally dont view manditory insurance as "reform" how is that reforming, the prices of helthcare will skyrocket along with cost of insurance, wellmark, one of the bigger providers of insurance where i live has already increased their premiums by 40%, this year alone. this is about greed.... not taking care of anyone, and its not the fedral goverments job to regulate commerce the way they think they have to. but what do i know im uninsured, and cant afford to buy it, but soon ill be fined for that, LOL what a world we live in.
dukeofbaja
New Member
Doc111: The Europeans who love it have either never been really sick or they haven't had a loved one get really sick.
I stopped reading the rest of your painfully formatted, uneducated rant because the person you addressed the above remark towards directly contradicted it. He talked about the medical care that his family members received from the NHS in face of extreme and severe medical difficulties. For your statement to be even close to true, than about 90% of those who use NHS have neither been sick or had one of their loved ones get sick. Anyone who actually believes such a retarted notion, much less types it out for the rest of the world to see, is deluded. That is you.
And mindmelted, you too must not know what the fuck you are talking about. If you earn less than 4 times poverty, about $88,000, the government subsidizes your purchase of health insurance. If you have it real shitty, like at poverty or 1.5 times poverty, you get insurance dirt cheap. If you are really really fucked and poor, hardship waiver. This is about social responsibility (we are all in this together to lower the costs of out currently unsustainable system). This is not about robbing the poor. Why don't you go masturbate to Glenn Beck some more. If you want to talk about this bill, you should skim any one of a million different articles out there right now that summarize what is actually in it.
I stopped reading the rest of your painfully formatted, uneducated rant because the person you addressed the above remark towards directly contradicted it. He talked about the medical care that his family members received from the NHS in face of extreme and severe medical difficulties. For your statement to be even close to true, than about 90% of those who use NHS have neither been sick or had one of their loved ones get sick. Anyone who actually believes such a retarted notion, much less types it out for the rest of the world to see, is deluded. That is you.
And mindmelted, you too must not know what the fuck you are talking about. If you earn less than 4 times poverty, about $88,000, the government subsidizes your purchase of health insurance. If you have it real shitty, like at poverty or 1.5 times poverty, you get insurance dirt cheap. If you are really really fucked and poor, hardship waiver. This is about social responsibility (we are all in this together to lower the costs of out currently unsustainable system). This is not about robbing the poor. Why don't you go masturbate to Glenn Beck some more. If you want to talk about this bill, you should skim any one of a million different articles out there right now that summarize what is actually in it.
Show me where it says this is not able to be done.
dukeofbaja
New Member
I genuinely don't follow....what are you asking for me show you can not be done?
My point was simply that if you opt to pay the fine instead of doing the socially responsible thing and getting insured, you will be vulnerable to a $64,000 bill for 8 nights stay in a hospital after a routine surgery. Or whatever other permutation fits your fancy...
doc111
Well-Known Member
Obviously you didn't read it. Pick and choose. I am not sure why you keep calling me uneducated (I do possess a master's degree). He said his family member had a heart attack. That is an acute condition! People suffering from acute conditions usually get treated well. It's the people with expensive and hard to treat illnesses, like cancer, who have to worry. I don't know why you insist on insulting me when I've never insulted you even once. You fucking people are unbelievable. You didn't even read the whole post and you start calling me uneducated............go fuck yourself!
doc111
Well-Known Member
I thought you couldn't be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition? If that is in fact true then anybody could not carry insurance, pay the $695 dollar fine and simply get coverage once they are sick and need it. That's the point that No Drama and everyone else who is opposed to this are trying to make. Here is an article I found that talks about some of the problems with the U.K. healthcare. I'm sure you won't read it since you only see what you want to see. Being closed minded is a sign of being uneducated.
A New Medical System Is Neededfor the British Nation
By Richard E. Ralston
December 18, 2007
Five years ago, an expert for the British government prepared a report to recommend a plan for Britain's National Health Service (NHS). The report was recently released to assess what has happened since.
Spending has grown by 50 percent in real terms, with an additional investment of £43 billion ($85 billion). A major portion of the funds has gone into large pay increases of about 25 percent for doctors and nurses. General practitioners now make about $200,000 a year. That does not necessarily mean that British doctors and nurses are overpaid. It does mean that the doctors take better advantage of spending increases than British patients.
Many more doctors and nurses have been hired. Unfortunately their productivity has declined, as the number of patients seen by each physician has declined over the same period. Britain has imported more than 20,000 physicians from Third World countries in the last three years, as after sixty years of experience the NHS has failed to attract and retain British physicians. Most of them are undoubtedly well qualified, even those few who blow up cars and airports in their spare time.
More essential problems remain. When the British government announced earlier this year the goal of reducing waiting times to fewer than 18 weeks for surgery and to see specialists, the Minister of Health admitted that one in eight patients still wait for one year or more. There is less access to high-tech diagnostic equipment, and cancer recovery rates are lower than in the United States.
Rationing takes many forms. Women weighing more than 180 pounds and men more than 218 pounds have been denied knee and hip replacement surgery because the outcomes are better for thinner patients. Smokers have been denied heart bypass surgery because their outcomes are not as good as those for non-smokers. Patients 80 years of age or older have been denied treatment for stroke, because after all, what is the point?
In a charming new development in cost control, a hospital recently instructed staff not to change linen when a new patient is placed in a bed but to instead just turn the linen over. Recently the NHS has announced measures to control an increase in the spread of staph and other infections within hospitals. Perhaps they should consider changing the sheets.
Fortunately Britain has always permitted private insurance and private clinics to operate. Even though services of the NHS are "free," more than six million people purchase private insurance. Curiously, more than one third of the physicians working for the NHS purchase private insurance. Does that not tell us anything?
British patients have been the foundation of the growth of the medical tourist industry. They combine vacations with surgery in countries like India, rather than endure long waits for "free" surgery in Britain. Many of these Third World facilities are excellent and operate profitably. In fact, some Americans and their employers now take advantage of this industry in order to save money. Free markets can work if permitted to do so.
The British government has been making an effort in recent years to reintroduce a modest measure of reform in the NHS by providing some choices and allowing some private providers to serve NHS patients. In other words, although the government would definitely not put it this way, they are trying to copy some of the remaining private elements of American medical care. Imagine that.
Nonetheless, a veneer of socialist "compassion" is steadfastly maintained throughout the British system. When financially challenged patients are placed on a long waiting list to commence radiology or chemotherapy treatment for their cancer, they are given bus fare when sent home.
The NHS is hardly some model of benevolent socialist efficiency that America should follow. Rather, British health care should become more like American health care, and to a modest extent it is trying to do so. It would be wildly ridiculous for America to emulate Britain's inferior systemparticularly when the British themselves recognize they need to emulate ours.
Richard E. Ralston is Executive Director of Americans for Free Choice in Medicine.
Copyright © 2007 Americans for Free Choice in Medicine. All rights reserved.
For reprint permission, contact AFCM.