CBD Blitz: Find a high-CBD low-THC mother, from seed, in only 3 weeks

Discussion in 'Advanced Marijuana Cultivation' started by PhenoMenal, May 5, 2018.

  1.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    In just 3 weeks, you can go from ungerminated seeds to finding a mother with the cannabinoid profile of your desire (high CBD/low THC for example). Allow me to explain ...

    It can be incredibly disheartening to spend several months growing a plant that was advertised as "high CBD low THC" only to find it has plenty of THC and no CBD. It's especially disheartening if you or your friend/family member are a medical patient with neither time or money at your disposal. I've been there.

    However, if you're just looking to find a high-CBD/low-THC plant you don't need to grow to full harvest to determine the result, because the cannabinoid profile is genetically established, and the sensitivity of Thin Layer Chromatography (which people can do at home) means we only need to grow the plants for 2-3 weeks (from seed). No flowering period required, just 2-3 weeks of seedling/vegetative phase. A CBD blitz.

    And because we're only dealing with small seedlings and such a short time frame, this makes it possible to quickly grow out seeds, and while a small grow chamber may only be large enough to bring 1 adult plant to harvest, it would still be big enough for a dozen or so seedlings. Then after 3 weeks you simply do the chromatography tests, keep the plant(s) you want and cull/discard the rest.

    You only need:
    • Seeds
    • Small pots (or plastic/foam cups
    • Grow chamber or sun or sufficient lighting
    • Thin Layer Chromatography equipment (see [my DIY TLC link])
    • 2-3 weeks time
    Method:
    1. Germinate the seeds.
    2. Grow for 2-3 weeks (until they're big enough to take a leaf cutting).
    3. Cut a trifoliate leaf off each seedling.
      Use gloves to prevent cross-contamination of samples.
      Wrap individually in aluminium foil.

    4. Decarboxylate for 60 mins @ 125°C/257°F, to convert THCA to THC etc
    5. Use Thin Layer Chromatography to determine CBD and THC levels in each one
    6. Keep the good ones, cull/discard the rest.
    Criticism:
    Ok, after 3 weeks you won't know much about the plant (you won't know how long it flowers for or what her flowers are like, and if it's a regular seed you won't know if it's male or female, etc). In other words, it's pretty early to say "yep, you're gonna be my mother plant!". That's not what this test is for though. This test is to establish the cannabinoid profile of the plant, and it does that beautifully, so it's a great way to FIND THE BEST CANDIDATES for your potential mother.

    In the next post I'll show an example from start to finish ...
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  2.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    So we start out with seeds that claim to be high CBD and low THC, and I decide that of the ~30 or so that I've got I want to run 16 on the first "blitz"...

    [​IMG]

    Fortunately all 16 germinated. I simply used cheap plastic drinking cups as the pots (some guys here have grown to harvest in those so i knew they'd be fine!). Unfortunately i forgot to add perlite to the coco coir, and only drilled one small draining hole which proved insufficient.

    I could only have them under 12/12 lighting for the first two weeks, and here they are at 14 days ... this is about as early as I'd want to cut:
    [​IMG]

    I had planned to take them to a full 3 weeks, but I stopped two days short on day 19, as I was getting drooping leaves from the poor aeration. Easy to fix next time.

    So here they are on day 19 just before The Snip ... you can also see their letter ID that I use to assign lanes in the chromatography...
    [​IMG]

    I simply take one of the trifoliate leaves from the outside of the container (where it has had no interaction with leaves from other plants):
    [​IMG]

    Lanes:
    A - Thunderstruck #3 (by Sin City) (non-symmetric growth)
    B - Thunderstruck #2
    C - Thunderstruck #1
    D - Thunderstruck #4 (weird mutant)
    E - Thunderstruck #5 (ingrown leaf)
    F - Dinamed (by Dinafem)
    G - Candida #2 (by Medical Marijuana Genetics)
    H - Candida #1
    I - Cannatonic #1 (by Resin Seeds)
    J - Cannatonic #5
    K - Cannatonic #3
    L - Cannatonic #2
    M - Cannatonic #4
    N - Harlesin (by Sin City)
    O - CBD Therapy #1 (by CBD Crew)
    P - CBD Therapy #2


    Now, the Thin Layer Chromatography ...

    Here was the first run ...
    [​IMG]

    The next morning I did another run just to help confirm some ...
    [​IMG]

    Results
    CBD only - THC only - THC+CBD

    A - Thunderstruck #3
    B - Thunderstruck #2
    C - Thunderstruck #1

    D - Thunderstruck #4
    E - Thunderstruck #5
    F - Dinamed
    G - Candida #2
    H - Candida #1

    I - Cannatonic #1
    J - Cannatonic #5
    K - Cannatonic #3
    L - Cannatonic #2
    M - Cannatonic #4
    N - Harlesin

    O - CBD Therapy #1
    P - CBD Therapy #2

    I will now cull down from 16 to 4 ... (D, G, H, O). Because G & H seem identical one of those is likely to be culled also.

    Other thoughts...
    Dinamed: This is the 3rd time ive grown Dinamed. The first time was a 1:1, but the other two times were THC-only. Disappointing.
    Candida: My first grow of this, and both were CBD-only, excellent result.
    Cannatonic: Very disappointing to not get any CBD detection, just THC.
    CBD Therapy: This is the 3rd time ive grown CBD Therapy, I've ended up with two 1:1's, and one CBD-only, so that's a pretty good return. Mosts tests put these phenos of Therapy at 20 - 25:1 [link]
    Thunderstruck: Three of the five showed a form of mutation, i wonder if that's because it's a selfed S1. Either way, it was good to see them all return healthy levels of CBD, but all in the 1:1 range except for the main mutant which is CBD-only. It'll be interesting to see how it grows, because it reminds me of a Blueberry mutant i had which stopped growing after a month.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  3.  
    ANC

    ANC Well-Known Member

    Don't stress too much, the real medicine is in the THC.
    Just my opinion...
     
    blowincherrypie likes this.
  4.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    Well, the real medicine is synergy of the CBD with the THC :) but it's easy to find THC, it's the CBD that's hard to find...

    So to me personally I would almost never opt for a CBD-only, I always want THC, but the reason I'm saving the CBD-only ones is because then you can consume as much as you like, without getting high -- think family members etc -- and THC can be provided on the side as an optional extra :)

    Then you can mix and match CBD and THC levels to your hearts content. Much more versatile than a static 1:1. Of course, if people want to use this method to find 1:1's (or whatever), it works just as well for that too!
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
    OldMedUser likes this.
  5.  
    ANC

    ANC Well-Known Member

    Yeah, high CBD stuff leaves me grumpy when I get up the next day.
    I care more about THC, terpenes, and esters.
     
  6.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    use a vanillin reagent and TLC visualises the terpenes also :)
     
  7.  
    blowincherrypie

    blowincherrypie Well-Known Member

    ive got family with medical issues and they definitely prefer the mix, but i know other ppl swear by cbd only.. guess my people just a bunch of fukn potheads bongsmilie

    Cool thread nun the less and I can definitely see this helping ppl so thx @PhenoMenal
     
  8.  
    OldMedUser

    OldMedUser Well-Known Member

    This looks promising @PhenoMenal. I'm currently growing some CBD strains and planning on crossing some of my favourite THC strains with an Otto#1 female that supposedly has high CBD with less than 1% THC.

    Would be nice to have a ballpark estimation of cannabinoid levels before sending samples out to a lab to get specific numbers. At $75 per I certainly can't be sending dozens of samples to a lab being a med patient growing his own meds and not a cash cropper.

    I'm checking out your DIY TLC thread too and may have a couple questions for you there.

    I got a diploma in chemistry almost 30 years ago and have forgotten most of it but this stuff is easy enough to follow.

    Thanks for the great posts!

    :peace:
     
  9.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    I work in IT and don't have any chemistry background ... in other words, if I can do TLC, anyone can :) Give it a go, you will not regret it
     
    OldMedUser likes this.
  10.  
    Joint Monster

    Joint Monster Well-Known Member

    I recently read that CBD profile alone is helpful for pain, and THC profile for the "high". The interesting part was when considering both, the CBD seems to dull the "High" of the THC, but make the high last longer.
    ^That was paraphrased from an experiment/study

    Some of the nicest strains I've tried have had a high THC% but also a decent CBD% and sometimes even CBN profile.

    That test looks interesting! Is it like an at-home kit? Or lab test results?
     
    OldMedUser likes this.
  11.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    There are a few commercial kits available, Alpha-Cat is probably the best although I haven't tried any of them. I just bought all the items individually myself, it works out a lot cheaper if you plan on doing more than just a couple of tests. Full DIY info is in the link in my sig
     
  12.  
    morrisgreenberg

    morrisgreenberg Well-Known Member

    very nice Pheno.
     
    OldMedUser likes this.
  13.  
    dogcat

    dogcat Member

    First time posting on any cannabis site. I found this thread, along with the other TLC threads by PhenoMenal, while researching dinamed CBD. Unfortunately I had already ordered the seeds (3 only), and was as upset as the next guy who believed dinafem's claims of a 10:1/20:1 guarantee. The fact your tests are coming up with zero cbd on 2 out of 3, is ludicrous. That would mean false and fraudulent advertising on dinafem's part. I only bought their seeds due to the guarantee, and if your tests are truly being done on dinafem seeds, then I certainly feel like I got ripped off. The way they responded to you shows a complete disregard for their reputation, which is starting to get smeared due to your testing. And if my tests prove the same results as yours, I'm going to go after them for accountability, and fraud.

    I haven't popped my dinamed seeds yet, as I was a bit confused as what to do with them. Since apparently they were no longer what I thought they were, I had to figure out a new plan. Growing them to completion, and getting them lab tested seemed to be the new plan. After reading your TLC tutorial, I did not see myself going through the process of buying the separate components. My THC garden has taken up all my attention, so I've stalled on popping the dinamed seeds. A few days ago I went over to a friend's house, and out of nowhere he surprises, and gifts me with a TLC kit from thctestkits. The kit had no been used, as it had belonged to a friend of his who had cancer, and had unfortunately died. Strange how the universe works, I did not see myself ever doing any TLC tests, yet a week later a complete kit lands on my lap. So now I am ready to start, and have you to thank for the inspiration and knowledge. I will start to do some tests on oils etc, and hopefully have something to share, or questions to ask. I will also start my dinamed seeds and do your CBD blitz. I still think there is a chance something went wrong with your dinamed seeds, as the results are so far from what they guarantee, that it's uncanny. Same with the way they responded, something doesn't add up. I'm on the case now, and will help get to the bottom of this. There are others growing it, most, blindly thinking they have a high cbd low thc flower. I have not heard others making zero cbd claims, so this definitely needs confirmation from another source IE like myself or others.

    Thanks for your time and work.
     
    PhenoMenal and OldMedUser like this.
  14.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    welcome dogcat, yes it's weird universe alright and sometimes stars align lol

    yep, rather than buying individual components you can always get one of the existing commercial kits (as you've now got - nice!), and then later down the track simply buy your own refill components rather than buying directly from the kit producer.

    The only refill components are the solvent(s), the dye (Fast Blue BB or B), the disposable plastic eppendorf tubes and pipettes, and the silica plates. I've never had to buy refills of anything yet though.

    TLC is really easy after you've done it once!

    re Dinamed, I too was surprised and disappointed.

    Two important things to consider though...
    • I've only grown 3 Dinamed seeds ... perhaps the other 7 are all good!? Cannot draw conclusions from 3, it could simply be bad luck. I might be able to grow another 2 or 3 out soon though.
    • I don't know if the seed bank or one of their potentially nefarious employees might've given me the switch. Cannatonic was basically sold out pretty much everywhere else at the time, so you couldn't put it past a nefarious worker or owner just giving me ten seeds of something else. This would be especially upsetting though considering it's usually medical users seeking them.
    Here's another thing though -- I was also stunned that all 5 of my Cannatonic's (by Resin Seeds) showed all THC no CBD. Another thing -- i got the Cannatonic and Dinamed from the same seedbank. The Harlesin also showed all THC no CBD, and was also from the same seedbank.

    However, the Thunderstruck also came from them, and I got legit results from all 5 of those, and all googling suggests they're a reputable seedbank that've been around for many years, so I don't have any reason (besides the TLC results!) to believe they're not what they say they are. I've contacted both Dinafem and Resin also regarding this ... truth via triangulation.

    dogcat, do your Dinamed seeds look like mine? (see photo in 2nd post in this thread)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2018
    dopeonarope and OldMedUser like this.
  15.  
    mr.jinks

    mr.jinks Well-Known Member

    Have you tried Dutch passion’s charlottes angel? I have been wanting to try it but I’ve been waiting for a legit grow report and cbd test results. I have had good luck with Dutch passion with other strains.
     
  16.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    no i wasnt even aware of Charlotte's Angel until you mentioned it. I did all my CBD seed buying just over a year ago, i looked far and wide so it mustn't have been available at the time. I was guessing Charlotte's Angel was their cross with Charlotte's Web from Colorado, but nope, it's double-Dutch ...
    They're also implying stability ... hopefully it is stable, but we've gotta keep an open mind about these things that aren't well tested ;)
     
  17.  
    ttystikk

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    Charlotte's Angel is a cross from another high CBD strain bred right here in northern Colorado known as Charlotte's Web. I've met the guys who did the work.

    As for high CBD strains, I have access to several due to being friends with people who specialise in growing it. They do it by the book, including having the Colorado Dept of Agriculture rep come out and test the crop to ensure it remains below the State required .3% THC.

    I'm not knocking your work above but I did want to mention that there are other ways to skin this cat.

    The guys will be growing about 12 acres of high CBD hemp this year and I've offered my services to pitch in. Should be fun!
     
    SCJedi likes this.
  18.  
    dopeonarope

    dopeonarope Well-Known Member

    Good thread @PhenoMenal . thanks mate I'm on the hunt for a family member and this going save me time on selection. Appreciate your efforts.
     
    PhenoMenal likes this.
  19.  
    dogcat

    dogcat Member

    Thanks Phenomenal!

    I think the kits are a great way to start, and then to be able to buy components as needed becomes more fun.

    I do think there is something strange about the fact that your Cannatonic, Dinamed, and Harlesin all came out as cbd duds. I'm not saying anything about the seed bank (not sure you mention which it is), but it would help to see if anyone left reviews of those particular strains on that site. Also, if you had a chance to grow any of them out, you can also compare yours to photos of other mature plants. I've seen a few grow diaries of the dinamed CBD, and the plants do appear to be close to what dimafem showed on their site. There is one chap there who grew it out, who is very sensitive to cbd and thc, and he seemed quote satisfied with the levels of both in his plants. Most people seem satisfied with the canabinoid profile of their dinamed grows, even if they didn't test it. The shortcomings have been more to do with performance and yield. Are you growing out your thundstrucks? Sounds like you found something good. Interesting enough, elsewhere on this forum, someone was complaining about the results from their Sin city thunderstruck. In your case, 1 CBD strain out of 4 showing up with no thc does not really validate a seed vendor, but by the same token, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with the vendor. There's just something wrong with the picture

    As for my dinamed seeds looking like yours, I'm not sure. They are quite small compared to the hemp seeds I acquired, but so is the free critical plus seed they included. We would probably need real close up shots to do a proper comparison. I'm trying to upload a photo, but when I do I get a graph showing my that my upload is 10% done, but then never finishes
     
    PhenoMenal likes this.
  20.  
    PhenoMenal

    PhenoMenal Well-Known Member

    Well, tell us the other ways to skin this cat then
     

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