Can You Adam And Eve It?

Anyone to rule anything out without substantiated proof, is as crazy as the die hard bible thumpers. No one knows everything, every single answer is followed by ten unanswered questions. Like was said, there are so many places that humans have not been able to go. What if every gallaxy had a planet that supported and had humans, we have no way of knowing at this time. Notice that we all go along with religon at christmas, cuz its enjoyable.

Think about it. It's all around human desire. What do you want? Make that your hope.

exactly... and thank you for grasping what i was getting at... also i've been to iraq and i've seen a lot of shit i almost died there and that just opened my eyes even further... why subscribe to that mundane day to day bs when there is so much more out there our brains and intelligence set us apart so instead of utilizing those gifts to disprove why not use them to seek knowledge... when i find the answers i want i'm not gullible enough to believe that what i think now is going to be right i might be completely off base and i can admit that but at least i reach for the impossible instead of being satisfied with a boring mundane life where i will just live pay taxes then die that sucks and anyone who subscribes to that might as well not be alive because whats the point... i challenge you guys who say there is no god... u don't have to believe in what i do but believe in something more then what they tell you... you guys want to spend all this time arguing against god but your points all revolve around the ideas of others... where as i look for meaning in a higher power you guys believe what the scientists and government tells you... But there are plenty of great examples in the world of the unknown so seek them, understand them and try to find some meaning in your life because i have found mine and that is knowledge whether that knowledge is what i want or a hard truth for me to learn i will except it... but not without proof... and you guys have no proof that what i say is wrong all you have is other peoples and your own doubts... so as i said before you don't have to subscribe to my way of thinking but don't close off your minds with words like impossible.... for if you were to meet humans from as little as 100 years ago and describe the technology we have and the places in space people have been they likely would have burned you for being a witch or threw you in an insane asylum... so maybe in another 100 years who knows?


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to reapeat it!!!!

Nothing is Impossible!!!

warmboe said:

Notice that we all go along with religon at christmas, cuz its enjoyable.

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I've also noticed and seen die hard atheists cry out to god on their deathbeds... so maybe even the most stubborn and standfast are scared in a time of weakness

frthnkr85 said:

exactly... and thank you for grasping what i was getting at... also i've been to iraq and i've seen a lot of shit i almost died there and that just opened my eyes even further... why subscribe to that mundane day to day bs when there is so much more out there our brains and intelligence set us apart so instead of utilizing those gifts to disprove why not use them to seek knowledge... when i find the answers i want i'm not gullible enough to believe that what i think now is going to be right i might be completely off base and i can admit that but at least i reach for the impossible instead of being satisfied with a boring mundane life where i will just live pay taxes then die that sucks and anyone who subscribes to that might as well not be alive because whats the point... i challenge you guys who say there is no god... u don't have to believe in what i do but believe in something more then what they tell you... you guys want to spend all this time arguing against god but your points all revolve around the ideas of others... where as i look for meaning in a higher power you guys believe what the scientists and government tells you... But there are plenty of great examples in the world of the unknown so seek them, understand them and try to find some meaning in your life because i have found mine and that is knowledge whether that knowledge is what i want or a hard truth for me to learn i will except it... but not without proof... and you guys have no proof that what i say is wrong all you have is other peoples and your own doubts... so as i said before you don't have to subscribe to my way of thinking but don't close off your minds with words like impossible.... for if you were to meet humans from as little as 100 years ago and describe the technology we have and the places in space people have been they likely would have burned you for being a witch or threw you in an insane asylum... so maybe in another 100 years who knows?


Those who do not learn from history are doomed to reapeat it!!!!

Nothing is Impossible!!!

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You think I have no meaning to my life, because I KNOW there is no god? You feel I lead a mundane life because I'm not a fool and refuse to believe in a fairy tale? You are obviously fairly young, at least in your head. Do you think I give a fuck what happened to you in Iraq? I also know people that have seen shit in Iraq, you think shit in Iraq proves there is a higher power? To my mind it proves the exact opposite.

Sorry, something more than who tells us? Isn't it 'them' that forces religion down our necks from the moment we start school? You should know from the army, I imagine the American army is big on using religion to CONTROL it's troops.

I have no proof? My proof is common sense, now show me yours.

In another 100 years, I hope that all religion will be gone, and belief in a god will have dwindled to virtually nil. It SHOULD be that way now.

common sense?
what is that?
thats whats in your head... why should i belive ur common sense that is no proof you've given me no answer... i have common sense also... i don't take baths with toasters what does that have to do with god? I think you argue because you want me to prove you wrong... i don't ask that you believe in god just something more then what is in front of your face... i don't believe in religion either... and i also believe it is a tool... and whereas your common sense tells you there is no god mine tells me that in a world where humans are the only unique creature yet to be discovered i think that there is something more thats it... and i didn't say your life was meaningless just mundane... if you love, hate, are sad, and happy then you are alive... but if you believe you have these feelings for nothing that there is just a beginning and end then i say you are a fool and with just cause... your arguments are made up in your head... you give me no answers that are solid and proof you just give me your beliefs and your hate of religion as a basis for that belief and don't you think that makes you as foolish as any hardcore christian lunatic on a mountain waiting for god to beam them up... my basis for belief is my intelligence and that is proof enough for me... the fact we can have this conversation is proof enough for me... you just like any other sane person with intelligence don't want to die and cease to exist no matter how much you might say to the contrary... please read my whole post next time and realize i don't care if you believe in my aspect of god or not... i'm not a religious fanatic i don't need converts and if we met in real life i wouldn't be yelling back in fourth with you just having a discussion for i believe that is the true purpose of my having intelligence to seek out what is unknown and try to understand it... you on the other hand shun what is unknown and are scared of it and i believe it is you that is young on the inside for like a child you fear what you don't understand and therefore say it doesn't exist... the universe is infinite and you me and everyone else are insignificant in the grand scheme of things, but if we obtain knowledge and live our life always trying to learn more and not limiting ourselves by closing our mind then we can feel that we did all we could to understand the meaning of it all before death... but if we turn our backs on what could be and only allow ourselves to believe what is then we are no better then animals living purely on instict to survive... from the passion with which you speak and the ideas that you harbor i don't think you are an animal so prove me wrong... and don't give me common sense or i just know as your answer because some preacher could tell me the exact same thing... So once again I put a challenge out there for someone to come up with undeniable proof that the idea of god is impossible... and i'm sure that just as i can't prove god does exist beyond a shadow of a doubt likewise no one will be able to prove opposite...

and as far as the army goes i wasn't in the army i was in the Air Force and in america religion gets farther removed from school every day... so please get your facts straight i'm enjoying this conversation and i don't want it to be a shouting match just something we can both learn from a lot of people make a lot of good points and i appreciate taking those points and learning from them... just as i've learned organized religion is bs... i'm not arguing religion because like you i wish it didn't exist because the falseness of it makes people like you hate the idea of a god... i hope you are happy with your life as i am mine and i'll agree that being happy here is important but unlike you i believe we are all tied into the universe and the universe is everlasting and so are we by definition...

frthnkr85, u seem like a smart dude. i think its cool that u welcome opposing views to further understand your own. but make sure u actually consider these other views as well. i promise to do the same.

frthnkr85 said:

...and whereas your common sense tells you there is no god mine tells me that in a world where humans are the only unique creature yet to be discovered i think that there is something more thats it...

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frthnkr85 said:

...but if we turn our backs on what could be and only allow ourselves to believe what is then we are no better then animals living purely on instict to survive...

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why do u think we arent animals. physically, we are. no doubt about it. mentally, we seem to be more advanced, based on the fact that we can react to our surroundings in a more logical manner. but, when we compare ourselfs to our furry brethren, we are comparing us to our views of animals.

being that we cannot communicate with 'animals' (keep in mind that alot of people think this is proof to our superiority, which is an illogical assumption) we only get one side to the story. what if we are completely blind to parts of the universe that all animals can perceive?

i think that humans are not at all better than animals. i dont understand how we (humans) can honestly be called unique either. complete and total equality and neutrality are the nature of the universe.


and just to clarify your views, what is your definition of god? this is pretty important if u are challenging others to disprove your ideas, dont be too vague.

I've thought about this idea of a higher power and tried to understand why life exists at all through many LSD trips. What I've concluded is that this higher power that controls all things isn't a being of some sort but an energy. It's the will to exist, the force that makes all living things strive for more. If no living things had something pushing them to continue and grow, life would not exist. Nothing would exist. This higher energy controls all life. I wouldn't call it a god at all but it is an unending force that's sorce is unknown and likely will never be known.

PS. Believe it or not but Satanism is very similar to this idea (not 100% but closest official religion to it). And Satanists don't worship Satan (thats known as Satanic Dabbling). Satanists actually base their religion off the Egyptian sun god, Set.

PPS. I'm not a Satanist so don't flame me. lol

Think of people as blind ( as diferent as our opinions are, and as convinced we may be of anything, there is no viable way of proving without a doubt that any of the things we believe in are true...belief is not only in religion and proven facts may be proved wrong any time ) blind people will always need a walking stick , a reason of existance (even if this implies accepting that your existance has no reason , it still in itself constitutes a reason of existance ) some people call this religion others call it science, others love, it iis all the same so long as it's meaning remains true to the person.

The main dilemma here is not belief or religion(believe it or not) but dogma.
When agroup of individuals are deprived from the right to decide what is meaningful to their existance and/or are imposed the belief in something, theyre freedom is narrowed and thus conflict is generated and dogmas appear. groups of individuals function upon conflict of interests (at least in our society) and thus dogmas of any kind play a very important role in the exclusion/inclusion of certain individuals in our society, think about it, this is why socialism never was and capitalism has thrived to its utmost. The dogmas we swear upon have encompassed such an undeniable part of our existance that we fight to defend them , even if we have not freely chosen them , to freely chose becomes more and more difficult and that is why a rise in religious sects and autonomous groups appears (sects, fraternitys, political parties...), society seems vast and meaningless and these groups present themselves as choices when they really aren't and are defined merely by our situation and standpoint. So the question is really am i able to chose freely? the answer is not as complicated as it seems because if the answer were yes the question would not have been asked in the first place, the choice would have been made before.

In conclusion don't be angry if a person has a different standpoint, this does not necesarily mean that yours is better or you are better...open discussion is the only way of achieving a more open minded frame setting, treat democracy as if it were, when you know it isnt and won't be.

The egyptian Set is only one of many historical figures that personify satan. (muu, u may be thinking of setianism) and to clearify a little more, modern satanists dont worship anything more than themselves. for example, here are The 9 Satanic Statements:

1. Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence!

2. Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams!

3. Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit!

4. Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates!

5. Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek!

6. Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires!

7. Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his “divine spiritual and intellectual development,” has become the most vicious animal of all!

8. Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!

9. Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years!

Hmm... Maybe it was Setianism... actually I have no fucking clue! I was not right at the time of reading. Goddamned lsd!

frth', if you can't see what common sense has to do with belief in a god then you have quite a way to go. If someone were to tell you that a tooth fairy does their washing up for them, your common sense would tell you that this is a lie... but could you prove it?

I am an animal, just like you. You think you are different?

I've never said that I want to die, I want to live forever. Unfortunately this is a fantasy, my common sense tells me that.

I fear what I do not understand? How can I fear something I have no understanding of? Do you mean I fear not understanding anything, the very act of not understanding? As, you may well be right on this score. That is something to fear.

The difference between you and I, is that I understand and you do not. You merely believe whereas I know. You say you have seen death (you still haven't told me how many atheists you've seen scream out to god on their deathbeds), and if you have you will have seen the ugliness of it. There is no glory in death, in fact it is a disgusting event, it reminds us that we are mortal, reminds us that one day we will die. If you TRULY believed in this everlasting life, death would hold no fear. That's it. There's no getting around it, if you TRULY believed this twaddle you spout, then you WOULD NOT be afraid of death. Yet, I know you are, you fear it because it is REAL.

I was gona leave this thread alone but I cannot pass on this one. Skunk, I still have love for you.

I am an animal, just like you. You think you are different?

Yes I am different. Animals run off of electrical impulses alone. I on the other hand have something called abstract thought. I am not like a mouse that just watched his buddy get caught in a mouse trap then do the same because I want that piece of cheese also. I am not like a ram that bashes his head off of another ram to show alpha dominance cuz that shit would hurt. I am like a dolphin in the regards that I have sex for pleasure . I am not like a cat that licks itself for cleanliness when I can go jump in the shower. I am not like most mammals in regards to the fact I can make a circle out of my index finger and thumb, ie impossible thumbs. although by an inkling a person can catagorize a human as an animal, we are far more than that.

well it looks as if i have quite a bit to address this time so stick with me... first of all for preo thankyou for understanding a little bit better what i'm doing here i'm just trying to learn for that is my true meaning in life and if i die having learned at every given opprotunity then i will die happy regardless of after-life or not... secondly i'm not sure what god is thats why i have these discussions... however i do believe in a higher power... whether it be the underlying energy of everything or an actual physical being well i don't know and won't know until death.. or we could be our own gods our soul the part of us connected to the universe might be god i'm not sure but i do believe failing to believe will mean eternal death... i don't think it means the fire and brimstone burning forever for i believe that is a tool of religion and i hate that religious fanatics think that scaring people will convert them... i believe that true hell is unexistence... now for you skunk you are absolutely right i'm afraid of death and anyone who tells you otherwise is a fuckin liar... no one wants to leave their physical body because they are afraid of the unknown but as i've said before i want to embrace the unknown i want it to be known so in a way i also anticipate death as that is our time to move on to what the universe has planned for us next... now i'm not a crazy who's going to kill myself to find out for i have people i love and care about here and as you guys have said everyone should make the most of life because after all thats why we are here... now for the most important part of this post for i don't think you quite understand me yet... i don't believe in a solid definition of god my view changes daily as i learn and get older... however i believe that one who closes their mind is a fool for you can't prove unequivocably without a doubt that god or some form of such doesn't exist... yet you keep trying to tell me you just know and then you use the tooth fairy as an example knowing it is no where near being in context... the idea of god compared to children bed time stories isn't even in the same realm of conversation... so i ask give me a mathematical formula... or a list of physical properties and rules that can logically prove god doesn't exist... you will never be able to because the universe will not let such happen... i also believe in ying and yang a balancing act of sorts and i believe that you are seriously at odds with your inner self... as i said before just as i can't prove god does exist (ying) you can't prove he doesn't (yang) so instead of trying to disprove each other why not share intellectual ideas to try to come to a mutual understanding... by the way thanks for the setenism/satanism stuff that was pretty interesting... i read a book once that concluded satan was the true god of humans because he interacted with us even if it was to spread evil whereas god set himself apart and let things go as they would... think of parents with their children and that might help you to better understand god... they/he raises their kids... they/he lets them go out in the world and learn for themselves... well we've been at it for 100's of millions of years and look where we are at now... look at the things that we have and have discovered... if god was physically around to help all the time just as if parents were would we/kids ever learn to do it on there own... i think that our time spent here is for our soul to mature before we are sent out into the universe/real world.... so you ask for proof but the fact that there is none is proof in itself... to me at least...lol... anywho i'm interested to see what i will see next time i come back... keep giving me these thoughts of yours i find them extremely interesting... and as i said before give me more proof then your own thoughts or if you are going to give me your thoughts give me more then a few lines explain your common sense to me or your gut instinct or whatever just don't say you know and thats all there is to it because then you are trying to make yourself a god in context at least by saying you know all and understand all when you know nothing and understand nothing in the grand scheme of things...

frthnkr85, I am gona give some +rep just for the fact smoke must be comming off the bloody stumps you used to call finger tips.

i believe in vampires. i really do. and ghost. and aliens.

lol, I'm going to have to remember to come back to this later. You're wrong by the way meat'. We are animals, and like them in every way. We do have Alpha males, we just do it differently like all the other animals do. One may beat their chest, another preen their glorious feathers, do you not see how we are like this too? Watching animals is a good way to study raw human behaviour, the very essence of our beings.

frt', I haven't read all your post yet, as it gets pretty incoherant in places. I'll get back to it later, when I have more time to work out what you are going on about.

Setianism wasn't what I was describing at all earlier. It's Taoism that closely resembles my beliefs. Here's a little summary of Taoism.
TAOISM

"Tao is the first-cause of the universe. It is a force that flows through all life."
"The concept of a personified deity is foreign to them, as is the concept of the creation of the universe. Thus, they do not pray as Christians do; there is no God to hear the prayers or to act upon them. They seek answers to life's problems through inner meditation and outer observation."

muu232 said:

Setianism wasn't what I was describing at all earlier. It's Taoism that closely resembles my beliefs. Here's a little summary of Taoism.
TAOISM

"Tao is the first-cause of the universe. It is a force that flows through all life."
"The concept of a personified deity is foreign to them, as is the concept of the creation of the universe. Thus, they do not pray as Christians do; there is no God to hear the prayers or to act upon them. They seek answers to life's problems through inner meditation and outer observation."

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looks like an offering of fresh material for the dogs to shred...i personally enjoy taoism.

'dont cling to the pleasant, let it pass; so the seperation will not diminish you' - lao tzu