Bypass vs Demand Pump

Im still learning how all this works. I would need a pump that could power 60 misters. Each bucket will have a mister, 60 buckets (plant sites). 15 per wall. I could be way off and probably am, thats why im asking you guys.

Thanks for the help.

Here is a quote from fatman that gave me the idea. "

"The pump I recommend is the IWAKI MD-70RZT pump. It is designed to run continuously. It can easily supply water to over 500 sprayers. The MD-30RZT also works but supplies more water in the 30 to 50 micron range and will only supply up to about 50 sprayers. A Hundred cam be supplied but no real well. As the system is high pressure, barbed fitting will not work well as too many leaks always appear and therefore the pressure is greatly reduced. Therefore I use John Guest fittings in my designs. They are available cheaply here in bulk. "

Here is the thread

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/334355-fatmans-medium-pressure-large-tube.html

If your using buckets there`s little point to using a lot of pressure as the mist won`t have anywhere to go. Fatman`s aero setup is no better or worse than any other lp aero design, its wasteful on power and the pump is very expensive for what it is.
He was looking to upgrade this lp aero setup, check out post #3 on the 1st page of this thread:
https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/254876-my-true-hp-aero-plug.html

I really am intrigued by the thought of better misting in my aero tubes and potential lower wattage needs of a pressure tank system.

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Aww,,, so its kinda pointless to go higher pressure and strive for that fine mist we know the roots love in such a small grow chamber? Would my best bet be to find a pump that could power 60 lp aero sprayers and forget about trying to get a pressurized system? the whole point off this is im trying to make the whole cube run off one reservoir instead of having 4 reservoirs (1 per wall) that need cleaning and changing etc. especially when i will have 2 cubes ultimately.

Sorry if its hard to make sense of what im saying. Thats why i posted the pics, to give an idea of what im working with.

Its a vertical grow.. the pic is just one wall. Each cube will have 4 walls surrounding the bulb. I want to power each cube with one pump and one res outside the room if its possible.

if you look at the pump fatman says to use for 30-50 micron droplets it has a pressure rating of 24psi. i can assure you you wont get many if any 30-50 micron droplets at those pressures unless your using an AA nozzle.
as far as his idea of using a selonoid to divert the flow so as to create a pulse (i.e 1 sec,2 sec) to mist the roots IMO there doesnt seem much point to it since if your using those low pressures the system is acting more like an NFT and a 2 sec spray is going to get the roots as wet as a 15 second spray. notice i said spray not mist.
I like your design and you have some nice craftmanship and with the vertical aspect that thing could be a bud machine. the way you have it setup with one mister in each pail should work fine using a lp feed system. delivering the lp spray can be acchomplished many ways but there is no sense in trying to replicate a high pressure system feed times with out the proper pressures and equipment. Run that thing as an LP setup since it looks like you will be doing small plants anyway and the containers your using are best for lp and not HP controlled misting.

You said you want to do drain to waste but without an accumulator and some very low flow nozzles and short cycle times your going to go thru alot of solution with DTW. Id hook all the drains to a condensate pump and pump it back to the res and then change out the res every 5 days. hook a pump up and run the feed cycles like a lp system and that thing should do really well. it just doesnt pay to try and replicate medium pressure as the roots and plant growth will be the same as a lp system IMO which can be very good.

Thanks for the enlightenment Treefarmer. Hooking all the drain gutters to one reservoir and pumping it back to the res was my next move. Do you know of a pump that will work for this? It would need to cycle on and off and suppply 60 lp sprayers with adequate spray patterns? (i min on 5 off) ? Drain to waste was only an option if i could manage the medium pressre. I wont drain to waste if running lp.

Thanks again

If its for the vertical setup in the pic maybe you could modify it to enclose the back of each segment to form a single large chamber behind each rack? If you used staggered netpots the roots should hang in relatively free space. You may get away with misting from the top or maybe top and mid level depending on the type of nozzle. Gravity would take care of the mist coverage.

I think i will just go with low pressure.

Can anyone recommend a pump that can be cycled continually in very short intervals (like 1 min on 5 off) or even (30 seconds on 30 off) without damage or short lifespan, and be able to power 60 sprayers running off 1/2'' pvc going up and down from one ststem to the next. ( 4 systems?

It`d be best to feed a manifold mounted at the top and branch off to all 4 units from there, a single initial climb for the nutes and no nozzles to sump the head. If you go up and down (series) you`ll add to the pumping height with each unit along with cumulative nozzle losses.

Atomizer said:

It`d be best to feed a manifold mounted at the top and branch off to all 4 units from there, a single initial climb for the nutes and no nozzles to sump the head. If you go up and down (series) you`ll add to the pumping height with each unit along with cumulative nozzle losses.

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Brilliant!


Thats a great idea! Ive been racking my brain trying to come up with a solution for this vertical aero cube project.
I couldnt get past how to plumb the cube together, and still be able to get inside of the cube to maintain the plants.

I like the idea of the top manifold branching out to the top of each wall. I could have a disconnect at the top of one wall, so i could just turn off the system disconnect the feed and roll the wall out to get in (each wall is on wheels).

Maybe i can get some sleep now...lol my wife thinks im nuts!

The reservoir will be in a seperate room and will be chilled.. (another learning process).

Its just a guessing game on the pump size and type for now unless you could point me in the right direction.

I have the one wall running now and am using the ecoplus 1267 gph. It works great and puts off a nice spray pattern.

But for the whole cube and 60 sprayers,, my first thought was just go big and see what happends.

Here is what im leaning towards. http://www.growwurks.com/ecoplus-eco-4950-submersible-pump.aspx


What do you think?
Thanks Atomizer!! youve been a great help.

It has a little over 7psi which isnt a lot for 60 nozzles, lots of connections/pipework and an uphill climb. If you base the plumbing layout and pumping power on something like a coliseum you should be ok. If memory serves that used a pump capable of 13psi, which is around a 30ft head. Not sure if it had to drive 60 nozzles but it`ll give you a place to start.

Thanks Atomix. do you think this pump will do the trick? I feel like such a dork asking ...but im just completely lost when it comes to pumps and such. Is there a different type of pump that can be mounted outside the res ?

http://www.little-giantpump.com/new_page_18.htm

You`d have to add everything up and decide if its upto the task. The pipe losses should be reasonably low as you`ll be running fairly large diameter tubing at low pressure and flowrate. The nozzles are the wild card and you`d need to use the right figures but for arguments sake lets say 60 imaginary nozzles need to see 3psi before they`ll do anything and at 3psi they run 2gph each . That equates to a good 7ft of head (27" head = 1psi) with 120gph flow at least. Add at least another 7ft head to push the water upto the height of the top manifold.
So the ballpark figure for the imaginary nozzle case is a pump capable of delivering at least 120gph at a minimum 14ft head.

High pressure is much easier to figure, but 60 nozzles makes it a less than viable option due to the large lowrates involved.

DIRTHAWKER said:

Thanks Atomix. do you think this pump will do the trick? I feel like such a dork asking ...but im just completely lost when it comes to pumps and such. Is there a different type of pump that can be mounted outside the res ?

http://www.little-giantpump.com/new_page_18.htm

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this thing would do the job easily. if you can handle the noise. ive used them before for 30 lp nozzles and just mounted it in a closet and it seldom ran and could be muffeled easily.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-6HP-1-SHALLOW-WELL-Garden-Water-PUMP-w-Pressure-Tank-/120714551875?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1b25e243

has everything you need except a selonoid you could get for 30 dollars.

I made this roughdraft to show what i had in mind. 1 inch pvc running along the back wall to a manifold , 1/2 inch pvc feed lines from the manifold to each of the 4 systems. I assume the solenoid is after the pump hooker to a timer?

Im not sure what you mean about the pump hardly ran if im set on a cycle timer 1on 5 off. Does the pump cycle on its own? Then the solenoid opens and closes with the timer?



one of 4 wall systems





All the walls will drain into one bottom res with a float valve pumping back to main reservoir

DIRTHAWKER said:

I made this roughdraft to show what i had in mind. 1 inch pvc running along the back wall to a manifold , 1/2 inch pvc feed lines from the manifold to each of the 4 systems. I assume the solenoid is after the pump hooker to a timer?

Im not sure what you mean about the pump hardly ran if im set on a cycle timer 1on 5 off. Does the pump cycle on its own? Then the solenoid opens and closes with the timer?

one of 4 wall systems

All the walls will drain into one bottom res with a float valve pumping back to main reservoir

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yea you have it pictured right.

i used these types of selonoids for lp they work great and you can get them in any size almost and they have a built in flow regulator
http://www.dripirrigation.com/drip_irrigation_categories/73

with the pump system i linked the pump doesnt come on everytime the timer tells the selonoid to open to send solution to the nozzles. the pump is controlled by the built in pressure switch and kicks in and out according to how much or how little pressure and water is in the accumulator. the pump operates independantly from the selonoid and timer so depending on how often your firing the nozzles the pump might not come on for 20 minutes and then run for 3-4 minutes and then be off again for 20 minutes. the times might be even longer depending on the nozzle flow and your timer cycles.

from the pics the thing is setup right for a good lp run. i use to do the same with the runoff. collect it in a sump and then pump it back into the res. i ran feed times about 15-30 seconds every 3 minutes but that was with big trees. thing to watch out for is that your not constantly spraying the base of the plant so try and keep the mister spray so it hits the middle to bottom of the netpot.

i used 1inch pvc also for my lp tree system but you really dont need one inch as 1/2 inch can supply plenty of flow and then you wont have as much solution sitting in the lines between pulses picking up heat. i had a sunken res so it wasnt much problem keeping things cool and the pump-accumulaor sat in an insulated closet.

you know they make clear PVC cleaning solution and glue so you dont have to get all the blue streakes on your piping. not criticizing just saying it makes a cleaner setup if you everbulid another setup using pvc.

Thanks Tree farmer! Ive got all the knowledge to move ahead now thanks to you and atomizer.

I will be sure to update you with the grow once its underway.

Happy growin!!

tree farmer said:

this thing would do the job easily. if you can handle the noise. ive used them before for 30 lp nozzles and just mounted it in a closet and it seldom ran and could be muffeled easily.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-6HP-1-SHALLOW-WELL-Garden-Water-PUMP-w-Pressure-Tank-/120714551875?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c1b25e243

has everything you need except a selonoid you could get for 30 dollars.

Click to expand...

Im getting ready to buy this pump, but i wanted to double check first to make sure this is the best option for my setup?
Its gonaa have to supply the 4 vertical walls and power 60 sprayers.(ez clone red sprayers is what i use but will a different type work better? I know this is a low pressure setup but with this pump being max 75psi will i be able to get the smaller droplet sizes to at least get to what the red sprayers are designed for?

My test prototype wall is running on the ecoplus 1580 gph high volume low pressure at the moment, and the roots are pathetic compared to my regular flat nft/aero unit. Why is it that in my flat grow the roots explode? Where in this wall unit the roots are barely surviving? Is it beacuse the roots in the fence posts are constantly being submerged in nutrient solution as the fence posts drain? The main reason i designed this vertical wall is so that the roots will never sit in stagnant water. Causing root rot etc.




Heres is the fence post roots...



and here is the vertical wall unit roots....both plants went in at the same age and time.

Any updates? Interested if the pump choice worked or not.

pazuzu420 said:

Any updates? Interested if the pump choice worked or not.

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I bought the pump and have it ready for the next run. As soon as i get it hooked up and running i will let ya know how it goes. Its gonna be a while as i am only 2 weeks in flower right now.

A little update for ya treefarmer... 5.5 weeks in, and the lp aero vert system is definaetly workin. After this run is finished i will be adding the 4th wall and plumbing all walls together with that pump you recomended, and a return res/floatvalve. The res will be chilled also. Looking forward to good things in the future.