Business told to either give up their religion or give up their business

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canndo

canndo

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ginwilly said:
lol canndo, I thought this was a pot forum not a crack forum. Asking for a copay like you would for insulin or beta blockers is not saying what you said at all. Put the pipe down and back away.

The only reason people are screaming for free birth control is because Pelosi used Fluke to stage a non-existent war on women from the right. They researched which universities did NOT offer birth control on their insurance and had her enroll there. It worked out well for miss Fluke and her political career was launched. Once this little tidbit was exposed she disappeared from the media as well as the truth.

You fell for it I see.
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Fell for it? Why do I care that it was a provoked case? There are lots of cases, many of them having to do with testing abortion limits that are set up in order to bring the cases to the highest courts possible. The point remains. Now, do I care if there is a copay or not? No, Do I care that the Catholic church want's special dispensation because they are Catholic? Yes I do.

The Catholic church is looking to spread its influence beyond traditional church methods and I don't believe that it is wise to allow that to happen. So long as the church remains the church and does not extend it's influence into commerce we are all good, but once it gets into hospitals they are not special, they don't get to influence people outside of their preaching or maybe some pamphlets. Why should they be treated any differently than any one else? Why should they get to enforce their beliefs on others by being allowed to ignore the rules everyone else is bound to follow simply because they "believe" differently?
 
beardo

beardo

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Viagra should not be covered.
Neither should birth control except for in the case of welfare reciepients in which case it should be mandatory.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Fell for it? Why do I care that it was a provoked case? There are lots of cases, many of them having to do with testing abortion limits that are set up in order to bring the cases to the highest courts possible. The point remains. Now, do I care if there is a copay or not? No, Do I care that the Catholic church want's special dispensation because they are Catholic? Yes I do.

The Catholic church is looking to spread its influence beyond traditional church methods and I don't believe that it is wise to allow that to happen. So long as the church remains the church and does not extend it's influence into commerce we are all good, but once it gets into hospitals they are not special, they don't get to influence people outside of their preaching or maybe some pamphlets. Why should they be treated any differently than any one else? Why should they get to enforce their beliefs on others by being allowed to ignore the rules everyone else is bound to follow simply because they "believe" differently?
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I agree that once The Church opens hospitals they should be held to standards of other hospitals. You know my insurance doesn't pay for optical? It's because the company I work for doesn't choose to offer that. I could buy a separate optical plan on my own, I could work for a different company that offers optical or apparently I could fabricate a war on poor eyesight that my company is waging and lobby congress to pass laws that ALL insurance must pay for contacts.

I disagree with Catholic teachings but respect their right to believe whatever they want. I hope you also respect my right to work at a hospital that is not affiliated with the Church against my beliefs.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
I only have the one Gin. Now, why should the Catholic church have special privleges?
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they shouldn't

If they are preventing women from working elsewhere, buying the pill for 9.95 on their own at Walmart or preventing people in general from using another policy they should be reprimanded appropriately.

Every company in the country buys insurance plans based on several factors. Why should religion be the only factor you are against?

I deal with insurance companies and they are the bane of my existence, I hate them. But this is a non-issue manipulated by those in power who thought the public was naive enough to fall for it. They were right.

edit: wasn't talking about you with the multi-account. This forum needs an "in reply to" feature
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
Johnny Retro said:
Yes and the owner does not believe in contraceptives. So the government is forcing its ideals on the people. The exact opposite of what this country was founded on.
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Isn't it the other way around? The owner's trying to force their whack religious beliefs upon their employees?
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
MellowFarmer said:
Isn't it the other way around? The owner's trying to force their whack religious beliefs upon their employees?
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Nobody is forced to work for this company, or if they work for it they are not prevented from supplementing their insurance. But if he doesn't change his beliefs that he doesn't want to pay for BC pills he is not allowed to operate.

I don't think I could work for a hard core religious nut, but if I did, I couldn't even imagine using force of government to get my way and consider is righteous.
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
I can't disagree. If it is a given then we have to work with it don't we? How about we start by limiting the power of those industries, maybe by not letting them contribute money to political action groups or not being able to do it quietly?

Beyond that, the point I am trying to make is that conservatives are claiming that this is an infringement on our 1st Amendment rights when it is no such thing.
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And take back that corporations are people.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
MellowFarmer said:
How is the Gov getting anything out of this?
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by fabricating a fake war on women and further driving a wedge down the middle of our country

edited to add: unfortunately to an apathetic Independent not paying very close attention tactics like these sometimes work and are often times attempted. See Obama's a Kenyan Muslim for evidence.

also, the more we can get you to hate the other side the more stupidity from ours you'll ignore
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
Canna Sylvan said:
My stance? My stance is health insurance is for health reasons. Getting pregnant is a natural result of fucking, without such a result, none of us would be here. Not allowing pregnancy is funding recreation.
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There are a lot of health reasons besides preventing pregnancy that they are good for. I was put on them before I was having sex for health reasons.

But why is preventing pregnancy Not A Health Issue? please explain.
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
Nobody is forced to work for this company, or if they work for it they are not prevented from supplementing their insurance. But if he doesn't change his beliefs that he doesn't want to pay for BC pills he is not allowed to operate.

I don't think I could work for a hard core religious nut, but if I did, I couldn't even imagine using force of government to get my way and consider is righteous.
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No one forces them to work there? So therefore you are allowing discrimination of woman use birth control?
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
by fabricating a fake war on women and further driving a wedge down the middle of our country

edited to add: unfortunately to an apathetic Independent not paying very close attention tactics like these sometimes work and are often times attempted. See Obama's a Kenyan Muslim for evidence.

also, the more we can get you to hate the other side the more stupidity from ours you'll ignore
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:eyesmoke: wut?
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

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I own a company and decide to offer health insurance but I don't believe women should be breeding we got enough humans on this planet so I refuse to cover pregnancy.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
MellowFarmer said:
I own a company and decide to offer health insurance but I don't believe women should be breeding we got enough humans on this planet so I refuse to cover pregnancy.
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in a free society we would picket you and close you down for that stance.

I have never said BC pills don't have health benefits just like you never claimed beta blockers are used recreationally. I just said they should be treated as such, not given special order above all other prescriptions. I see nothing wrong a copay.

As far not allowing BC in your plan, it's not the same as not allowing you purchase them another way or not allowing you to seek employment at a different hospital.

Some places don't even offer insurance to their employees, let's hang em.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
MellowFarmer said:
No one forces them to work there? So therefore you are allowing discrimination of woman use birth control?
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unfortunately our present laws allow this type of discrimination in hiring, as well against people who wear blue socks or watch Nick at Night. Our discrimination laws are very very specific as to what you can't discriminate against. Everything else in the eyes of our government is fair game.

ftr, I'm not defending the Catholic Church's archaic, idiotic policies, just their right to have them.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
canndo said:
Government makes birth control coverage manditory, they cannot get an insurance policy that does not have that inclusion. This is not about insurance company or pharma profits, it is about and strictly about commerce.
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And that's where PPACA runs up against the first amendment. Some religions consider contraception a mortal sin. This is not a new concept that the Catholics invented just to cause Obama problems; Catholics have considered contraception a mortal sin for as long as there has been contraception. Obama obligingly stepped on his own dick when he started this war on religion.
 
MellowFarmer

MellowFarmer

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
unfortunately our present laws allow this type of discrimination in hiring, as well against people who wear blue socks or watch Nick at Night. Our discrimination laws are very very specific as to what you can't discriminate against. Everything else in the eyes of our government is fair game.

ftr, I'm not defending the Catholic Church's archaic, idiotic policies, just their right to have them.
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Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Title VII), which prohibits employment discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin;
 
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