Buds quality LEDs VS HPS

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by olsqueak, Nov 16, 2017.

    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    I have said similar things many times. I don't think some of the trolls chiming in know that.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    TTY, do you know that I have said things similar to what Chunky said in the recent past?
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    TTY, I have another question. Hope it is OK to ask.
    You spend a lot of time in the led section. I'm sure it will be the place to be in the near future. Hope I don't wear out my welcome.
    I have said before many times there are led growers that I respect.
    In the Newbie Central Section or the plant problem section. I can name probably dozens of members that keep the trolls in check.
    Are there people that you can name that control the trolls here in the LED section?
    ttystikk likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Oh Well! I kind of thought it was going to be a conversation so I've been distracted from other things and need to get back. :peace:.
    If others have a list of troll hunters in the led section I'm sure members on that list would be proud to get a shout out.
    Just curious if they are here and who they are.
    I would happily put together a list of troll hunters I know that would be happy to get a shout out for being troll hunters in the sections I hang out in. Some of them posted in this thread.
    Happy Growing!
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    Come on guys! You know what a troll hunter is don't you?
    Troll Hunters take down fakes or people that try to fuck up another persons grow.
    Maybe it would be someone in my section who see's someone insulting one of you when you came to visit.
    I promise guys if you come to the plant problem section and you show mediocre buds grown with LED I will protect you from any trolls that fuck with you and if I need back up I will call it myself and it won't be yodaweed. Looks like he is busy enough here.
    Come on guys, at least insult me or something.
    OK, I'll go 1st.
    I think there is some guy with MJ or cannabis or something like that in his screen name, that might be a troll hunter in this section. Can't remember his name. To stoned I guess. :peace:
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    @MichiganMedGrower Hope you have a good morning. Don't want to call you into this debate but it is so quiet. I feel nervous like an assault is coming.:)
    Am I being bad, if I am I always want you to tell me.
    I would include my friend the good Dr. but no need to drag him in and you are already here and I like you as my bullshit meter. He is my Sensei.
    I will @ him as someone who protects new growers from trolls just like you and me if I make that list.
    Do the trolls run rampant here in LED. I haven't spent much time here. Seems like a lot of insecurities here IDK.

    This is a legitimate curiousity of mine.
    I'm kind of afraid to ask here but what the hell, life is short. ;)
    Ignore the topped plants in the back.
    The plant in the front is an experiment in under watering. I would like @whitebb2727 ( A lovable guy that will set a troll straight if they mess with a new grower) to look at it also. Must be showing the stress it is being put through. Pistils still look great. The pictures of the one in the front, not topped, is 42" tall and has been watered 3 times after being a tiny seedling and put into that pot, the transplant into the wet soil is not counted as a watering. It is 3 1/2 weeks from flip and is an 11 - 13 week flowering strain from what I have experienced.
    Serious question for anyone.
    Or is it wrong for me to drag whitebb2727 into this hostile thread. No need to respond here if you don't want too. I can always start a thread in the less hostile problem section.
    Q: Would I be able to grow a bigger better plant with LED watering 3 times? If yes maybe I will get some bad ass LED lights.
    Didn't really want to talk about the LED vs hps aspects of doing it but I'm curious about that and was also wondering what whitebb2727 thought about its health. I plan to stress it as far as I can and you have a good eye for under watered plants..

    100_6768.JPG 100_6769.JPG 100_6770.JPG 100_6771.JPG
    Three pics added below from two days ago.
    100_6720.JPG 100_6721.JPG 100_6723.JPG
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Nice work there! Beautiful plants.

    But the debate is silly. If we are talking about efficiency the led wins. There is no other “better” about the lights. They both have pros and cons and are simply tools. Old tools and new tools. Both work.

    The university of Michigan has tons of info on light spectrums and there effect on plants.

    The biggest main factor and it was proven long ago is lumens or candlepower is the most important measure regardless of par as far as plant growth in general is concerned. It was the hps vs mh originally tested. Plants can and will transfer photosynthesis to the strongest wavelength. So hps wins in usable light.

    So even though it isn’t exactly scientific. It is proven that the more wattage a grow light has the more plant you can get and faster.

    The more diminished factors but extremely relevant are that blue light grows more compact leafy greener plants and red light tends to promote branching and flowering.

    They suggest a full balanced sunlight like spectrum for leafy greens production.

    They suggest less blue and more red for a flowering or fruiting plant.

    I think many of the buds shown grown under led or cmh have a poor leaf to calyx ratio. It was a trimming complaint under cmh alone. I have proven in my garden that yield and less leafy bud structure returned under hps alone.

    But this is wattage and spectrum influenced. Doesn’t matter what kind of light is used. Matters which usable light gets to the plants.

    And wattage is seeming to influence potency like ed Rosenthal says in his book. The hps buds are more potent on average according to every tester than the cmh buds.

    So amount of usable light may be more influential on potency and even complex canabanoid production over uv light.
    mr. childs, jarvild and Buba Blend like this.

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    We're generally pretty self policing here.
    Buba Blend likes this.

    sethimus Well-Known Member

    MichiganMedGrower likes this.
    Buba Blend

    Buba Blend Well-Known Member

    And so are we. I don't know yodaweed very well at all. I have seen him in my section many times and do not recall him ever being a bad guy. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe there are things going on I do not understand. When I saw he was being attacked and then the same crew jumped on me for a silly comment that I made because someone posted yesterday a video from an LED seller, I decided to make a comment. Yes one sided, intentionally. Busting balls keeps us active.
    Something else you guys may not notice, In all the fights I have been in, even when I got mental or delusional. It has always been a fight with trolls, rarely ever a regular member.:peace:

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    I got my information researching over the last 4 years and I don’t have the specific links anymore.

    There is tons of info out there and the common arguments here are not always supported by scientific fact.

    Tons of new led info now available from the u of m as well online when I searched.

    But I quickly found this that supports what I said about blue and red light and that red light is much stronger for photosynthesis.


    And I couldn’t quickly find the original testing I found but this article mentions it and other universities that support the strongest light wins not the most balanced spectrum.


    They will be specifically tailoring spectrums in led for specific crops. Interesting reading I will have to go back to about new led testing online.

    Full spectrum light like the cobs sold around here are not what is being considered for professional Grow lights.

    Individual ratios of colored lights are used more like old blurple but with a modern complete spectrum for the plant type being grown.

    Sorry I don’t still have all my links. They were in an old phone.

    Here is a reprinted chart of different light sources and what they put out for uv and other waves.

    The university of Utah proved that 50/50 blue to red is the highest ratio of blue that improves plant health. They show the cmh to have the best spectrum.

    https://www.cycloptics.com/sites/default/files/GB USU Spectral Characterization link.pdf

    It depends on what you are growing. We are most interested in big buds. Not leaves.

    I’m still waiting for professionally designed and produced led lights made for our type of plant specifically or fully programmable is likely soon.

    OLD MOTHER SATIVA Well-Known Member

    i am waiting for you to actually get an led

    and your nut bar "friend" who cannot spell bubba is on ignore
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    My friend. Ok. I don’t know him any more than I know you. Why would I care if you ignore him?

    And like I said above. When real horticultural lamps are available at a reasonable price I will consider led.

    I am not going to wire a bunch of warehouse lights together only to watch better lighting become available cheaper.

    And so far I have not seen decent results at under 50 w per square foot with cobs. And I am yielding higher with hps at that wattage than I am seeing in led threads here. And equal or better quality from the hps too.

    I am still waiting.......

    And have a lower heating bill from the garden helping heat my house while I wait.
    Chunky Stool and jarvild like this.

    OLD MOTHER SATIVA Well-Known Member

    thanks for the reply ..

    still a lotta words for guy who does not own one.,.

    37.5 w does better for me than 50w hps

    and you can run more than twice as many leds in your area and still have your heating in winter..

    and the rest of the year..[like summer] its a dream come true

    Humple Well-Known Member

    You seem like a reasonable dude, but I have to call you on this one, man. There are better than decent LED results at less than 50w per square foot all over this forum. As for the quality - how can you say that when you haven't handled and sampled bud grown - by a competent grower - under COBs or QBs? Are you just basing that on pictures posted on the internet? Because that's really no way to judge quality.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Now your suggestion will cost me even more money.

    And unless they are specifically designed as horticultural grow lights I can customize I just said I am not interested.

    I share my house air conditioning with my Grow rooms. Cooling is really not a huge problem at my garden size in Michigan.

    Switching out 1200-1500 watts to led would be pointless for savings. But it would increase my heating bill unless I double up like you suggested.

    Don’t know why you all want me to buy these first generation diy looking lights. I already have stated over and over it is obvious they work.

    And eventually it is all that will be available just like house light bulbs. So why rush and pay more?
    OLD MOTHER SATIVA and jarvild like this.

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    They are specifically designed as horticultural lighting.

    And in the case of quantum boards, they're closer to fifth generation.

    But you look great talking out your ass about things you know nothing about.
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    What makes you think I haven’t tried well grown led bud? I live in a Medical weed state. I know many growers.

    And I said better than my personal yield. Which has been increasing until recently for the last 4 years. I have watched tons of threads for results and spoken to Growers personally.

    I finally maxed out my 3 gallon pots and am trying 5’s. I don’t monocrop or even flower the plants together with trellis or nets and get 2.5 oz per gallon of soil on average with individual bushes on stands. All different strains from seeds.

    And no one is complaining about quality.

    Why do you all want me to buy these things? I have absolutely no need to upgrade.

    Move your hid away from the ripening plants to reduce ir heat and you will get the same “better” results claimed.

    If I had a huge power bill I might be seeking a solution sooner.

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Until they are full of the right colors in the right ratios they are in an infant stage. They are not used in any major production I can find.

    Haven’t you even read about led testing at universities “Mr. Education” ?

    They are way past simple PAR measurements that tell nothing of individual wavelengths.

    You would have to actually read some current info to participate in the discussion past name calling and insults.

    You haven’t had anything new to say in the last 2 years. And you use many times the wattage needed to get your results so you are the worst proponent of these lights.

    Plus look at your unhealthy plants. Full spectrum lighting like you use should easily keep them green and leafy.

    Bye Tty ;-)

    ttystikk Well-Known Member

    Stick to your streetlights.
    MichiganMedGrower likes this.

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