Bubblelicious, New York Power Diesel, and Super Skunk in DWC

Bob Smith said:

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Anyone who said "well, that's obviously an extra humidity dome, heating pad, and slab of 98 rockwool 1" cubes so that you can practice before taking 196 clones for your next run of 144", then give yourself a pat on the back.

Fuck it, we're going 144 - made up my mind in the hydro store twenty minutes ago.

Gonna go take 98 clones real quick as practice (haven't worked with rockwool in over a decade), so I'll be back in a bit.

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you should give root riot a try bob. it is much easier to work with and is better in my opinion. it come pre moistened so there is no guess work involved. the hardest part of using rockwool is getting it conditioned right. i have wasted a ridiculous number of clones trying to use rockwool. you should do a tray of root riot cubes also to see which one you like better.... just my .02 cents

rbahadosingh said:

you should give root riot a try bob. it is much easier to work with and is better in my opinion. it come pre moistened so there is no guess work involved. the hardest part of using rockwool is getting it conditioned right. i have wasted a ridiculous number of clones trying to use rockwool. you should do a tray of root riot cubes also to see which one you like better.... just my .02 cents

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Just took a look at the website, seems like Root Riot cubes are basically identical to the Rapid Rooters that I was using; they work fine for me, but the issue is numbers - I can only fit 72 clones per tray using either of those, whereas the rockwool comes in slabs of 98.

We'll see how this rockwool run goes, but I'd like to avoid having to buy another humidity dome and heating pad (I think two should be enough).

For today, going to try to fill up the empty spaces in the rockwool (~20 clones), and going to transplant all the remaining clones (threw away a bunch yesterday) into larger containers so that I can have tons of clones ready to be cut in a couple of weeks.

Also gonna clean in the garage, it's a mess in there anymore.

EDIT: for my rockwool, I just put the slab in the tray, and "dunked" the tray into my veg rez (which was like 5.6 at the time, but was close enough to 5.5 for me), and called it a day - been a looooooong time since I've used it, but the directions said just quickly put the cubes into 5.5pH water, so I did.

Also, I noticed that with the thickness of the rockwool, there seems to be a lot more consistent humidity in the dome - I'll try to get a pic to show you guys, but it seems like there won't be the "hot" spots (areas that are too wet or too dry) that I found with Rapid Rooters because there's no insert (to hold the Rooters) to muck up their heights relative to each other.

shnkrmn said:

You could get a second RO filter. I let mine run over night. It gets me about twenty gallons at a time that way and doesn't overflow because who can resist checking before breakfast?. Between veg needs and my soon arriving ebb and grow system I may be constantly harvesting water in order to have enough on hand for res changes. My tap water is nearly 400 ppm, so I worry about all the Ca locking everything out.

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and it would. a constant supply of RO'ed water is one less thing to worry about when you have a huge rez and a RO device hooked up to an automatic float valve with solenoid...



http://cgi.ebay.com/RO-DI-FLOAT-VALVE-LEVEL-LOCK-AQUARIUM-TOP-OFF-SYSTEM_W0QQitemZ230416112494QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item35a5dedb6e

if the float rising up doesn't shut it down there's also an emergency float switch that shuts it down at the bottom of the unit. if ur changing out ur rez you can just leave like 1/4 in the tank and within 1-2 days it'll be back up to level (200 gal+) with almost no down time. As long as you've got a 100-200 gal. per day RO unit. With the solenoid you can even have it on a timer so that it isn't filling during a ebb 'n flow cycle... but i just leave mine on as the water that comes in during that time would never be enough to even replace what the plants are using.
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Sounds like things are moving here.....

Might use the R/O filter once I've got the garage totally cleaned out and can have the proper setup, with float valve, auto-off features, and whatever else would make it so I don't worry about flooding.

But that's down the line - my next issue is figuring out how I'm gonna deal with getting air conditioning into my garage, which is generally 10F warmer then outside air, and even more then that in the summertime with the sun beating down on the roof. To further complicate things, there's only one window in there, which is a pathetic 12" wide (and about that high).

Besides the fact that the window wouldn't support any AC (my preference would've been for a window unit, but even a 14000BTU portable needs at least 20" of window width), an AC sticking out of my garage window would be a security risk.

So, I'm thinking I need to build a room within a room - took measurements about five minutes ago, and I have about a 14x8x8 footprint to be able to use.

Basically 8x8 of that would be for two 1Ks covering a 6x6 area, and the other 6x8 would be for vegging plants, ballasts, CO2, drying box, the portable AC, and things like that - would love to keep them outside of the "enclosure" to reduce heat inside, but temps can easily hit 110 in there, which means trouble for CO2 tanks and ballasts.

And when I say "build a room", I'm not thinking just some 2x4s covered in panda film - I'm talking plywood as well, to make this somewhat of a permanent structure (possibly even with insulation, but that might be too ambitious).

Two Questions - anyone know of any software that would let a tard like me be able to sketch out my room ideas to make sure they work?

And, anyone know of any good tutorials for building an actual room? I've looked around before when I was thinking of building a tent and didn't find anything worthwhile - I'm talking a step-by-step for someone like me who doesn't know the first thing about it (I've looked around, and tutorials just say "nail them together", and I have no idea where to nail, what nails to use, etc. - things like that are where I need the pointers).

Bob Smith said:

Might use the R/O filter once I've got the garage totally cleaned out and can have the proper setup, with float valve, auto-off features, and whatever else would make it so I don't worry about flooding.

But that's down the line - my next issue is figuring out how I'm gonna deal with getting air conditioning into my garage, which is generally 10F warmer then outside air, and even more then that in the summertime with the sun beating down on the roof. To further complicate things, there's only one window in there, which is a pathetic 12" wide (and about that high).

Besides the fact that the window wouldn't support any AC (my preference would've been for a window unit, but even a 14000BTU portable needs at least 20" of window width), an AC sticking out of my garage window would be a security risk.

So, I'm thinking I need to build a room within a room - took measurements about five minutes ago, and I have about a 14x8x8 footprint to be able to use.

Basically 8x8 of that would be for two 1Ks covering a 6x6 area, and the other 6x8 would be for vegging plants, ballasts, CO2, drying box, the portable AC, and things like that - would love to keep them outside of the "enclosure" to reduce heat inside, but temps can easily hit 110 in there, which means trouble for CO2 tanks and ballasts.

And when I say "build a room", I'm not thinking just some 2x4s covered in panda film - I'm talking plywood as well, to make this somewhat of a permanent structure (possibly even with insulation, but that might be too ambitious).

Two Questions - anyone know of any software that would let a tard like me be able to sketch out my room ideas to make sure they work?

And, anyone know of any good tutorials for building an actual room? I've looked around before when I was thinking of building a tent and didn't find anything worthwhile - I'm talking a step-by-step for someone like me who doesn't know the first thing about it (I've looked around, and tutorials just say "nail them together", and I have no idea where to nail, what nails to use, etc. - things like that are where I need the pointers).

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Bob you could try Google Sketchup

http://sketchup.google.com/

skinnyone said:

Bob you could try Google Sketchup

http://sketchup.google.com/

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Thanks; gave that a go for the last hour and it's clearly above my paygrade in terms of figuring out how to use the fucker.

I just need something simple, with a bird's eye view to make sure the layout fits in terms of spacing.

Might use a simple Windows drawing program, if I can find it.

If you PM me with your dimensions I can help this evening. I'm at work now and I have to attend a BIG program meeting (the kind where I introduce myself then say nothing for 2 hours) today. I can knock out something for you later though.

I don't think you're going to be happy with 2 lights in a 8x8 area. That means each light has to cover 4x8 . . . might as well just use 1 light if its got to cover 8ft across anyway. I vote for 4k since it's all going to be AC'ed anyway.

smokingrubber said:

If you PM me with your dimensions I can help this evening. I'm at work now and I have to attend a BIG program meeting (the kind where I introduce myself then say nothing for 2 hours) today. I can knock out something for you later though.

I don't think you're going to be happy with 2 lights in a 8x8 area. That means each light has to cover 4x8 . . . might as well just use 1 light if its got to cover 8ft across anyway. I vote for 4k since it's all going to be AC'ed anyway.

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Firstly, good luck on your meeting - lotsa people hate public speaking/presentations, but I'm pretty outgoing so I never had much of an issue with it - just walk in there dick swinging like you own the place and you'll be fine

Secondly, the 8x8 flower room wouldn't be totally filled to the walls - it'd be 4 3x3 trays in there (so a 6x6 plant footprint) that the 2 1Ks would be covering, and that's only a couple square feet more then a 4x8 (32 vs. 36). I want the room to be a little oversized so I have room to the side for a dehumidifier, CO2 tanks (although would probably go generator in that size), and whatever else, instead of having to cram them underneath a tray, which has led to the height issues I'm currently having.

The size of the box is going to be right around 12 feet long by 8 feet wide and 7 or 8 feet high - need to do some more measuring, but that's 95% accurate to what it's gonna be.

Heading to Home Depot now to get some ideas - BTW, anyone know how to cut perfect 6" holes (for the ducting)? I know there's a way to do it, maybe I'll ask my Home Depot guy........some drill attachment or something.

EDIT: 4K's not an option because I'm not wired for that much juice in there; that being said, was thinking of having an electrician come out and turn one of my new 120V 20 amp circuits into a 240V circuit - anyone know how difficult that would be for him? Figure as long as I'm totally going to be cleaning out the garage that this is my last chance to get anything done that I need to, because this is gonna be the final project - anyone have any specific requests or suggestions of what I could get done while my garage is empty? FYI, will take place after my next harvest, so sometime in mid to late April, hopefully beating the hot summer weather.

Will move a small tent inside for the week or two it takes to get rocking and rolling so that my clones will be ready to roll whenever.

Bob Smith said:

Firstly, good luck on your meeting - lotsa people hate public speaking/presentations, but I'm pretty outgoing so I never had much of an issue with it - just walk in there dick swinging like you own the place and you'll be fine

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No no, I'm supposed to say nothing. There will be a bunch of Directors and senior managers (20+) from various companies that have decisions to make and discuss. I'm just the guy that's going to do most of the actual work. I'm going to listen and take notes like a good worker-bee .

Bob Smith said:

Secondly, the 8x8 flower room wouldn't be totally filled to the walls - it'd be 4 3x3 trays in there (so a 6x6 plant footprint) that the 2 1Ks would be covering, and that's only a couple square feet more then a 4x8 (32 vs. 36). I want the room to be a little oversized so I have room to the side for a dehumidifier, CO2 tanks (although would probably go generator in that size), and whatever else, instead of having to cram them underneath a tray, which has led to the height issues I'm currently having.

The size of the box is going to be right around 12 feet long by 8 feet wide and 7 or 8 feet high - need to do some more measuring, but that's 95% accurate to what it's gonna be.

Heading to Home Depot now to get some ideas - BTW, anyone know how to cut perfect 6" holes (for the ducting)? I know there's a way to do it, maybe I'll ask my Home Depot guy........some drill attachment or something.

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I'll scratch that out this evening. Good luck at Depot! I have this involentary gag reflex every time I get near a Home Depot now. I get dizzy just walking down the isles. It's a good thing I know where everything is already!

Bob Smith said:

that being said, was thinking of having an electrician come out and turn one of my new 120V 20 amp circuits into a 240V circuit - anyone know how difficult that would be for him?

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Bob, this is easy, I did this myself last week. Worked out great. Not a problem unless you have no room left in your breaker box. To do it just replace the single breaker with a double pole breaker and connect the white and black wires to it and the ground wire to ground. (make sure you know where all the outlets that this line supplies and label correctly so you don't plug anything else into them.

cazador said:

Bob, this is easy, I did this myself last week. Worked out great. Not a problem unless you have no room left in your breaker box. To do it just replace the single breaker with a double pole breaker and connect the white and black wires to it and the ground wire to ground. (make sure you know where all the outlets that this line supplies and label correctly so you don't plug anything else into them.

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Sounds like certain death for me - lemme look into it some more and see if I can find a tutorial somewhere.

smokingrubber said:

No no, I'm supposed to say nothing. There will be a bunch of Directors and senior managers (20+) from various companies that have decisions to make and discuss. I'm just the guy that's going to do most of the actual work. I'm going to listen and take notes like a good worker-bee .



I'll scratch that out this evening. Good luck at Depot! I have this involentary gag reflex every time I get near a Home Depot now. I get dizzy just walking down the isles. It's a good thing I know where everything is already!

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Ahhh, the old "this is what we want, can you make it happen for us" kinda meeting - well good luck regardless

And the guys at Home Depot ask me where stuff is these days

BTW, found what I needed (will need) - it's a 6" attachment for my drill which is supposed to be for installing recessed lighting - $25, not too bad (didn't buy it, was just looking around for ideas).

Bob Smith said:

Sounds like certain death for me - lemme look into it some more and see if I can find a tutorial somewhere.

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I hear you. It's really not that bad, I can give you more detailed info if you need.

cazador said:

I hear you. It's really not that bad, I can give you more detailed info if you need.

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Would love it if you would - I'm really, really hesitant to fuck around with electrical, but according to the below, it should be kinda easy (because that outlet is the only one for that breaker):

Wiring from 110 to 220
I need to change a plug in outlet from 110to 220 so I can plug in a window AC/Heating unit. What do I have to do?
More than likely, you need to run a brand new wire to the outlet from a new breaker in your box. Unless (which is unlikely) the outlet is the only one on a circuit now. Let me see if I can explain.
To wire a 220 outlet, a new 220 (double pole) breaker is installed in your box. From this both the black and the white wires will be hot when checked or wired to ground. You are wiring from both sides of the 110 in your box. Going from either line to ground is 110. Going from one side to the other is 220. That is why the breaker in your box is a double one ganged together.
Ok.. so if you are not comfortable with wiring in your service box, leave that to an electrician. But you can run the wire to the outlet yourself.
For an air conditioner, you probably want a 20 amp circuit. So the sire size would be 12 gauge.
You will need a 220, 20 amp outlet. And if you are wiring this separate, go with a new outlet box and leave the old one be. (unless for reasons of "looks" you don't want another outlet there.)
If by some lucky chance the outlet now is the only outlet and fixture on the circuit, you would only need to change the outlet to a 220 outlet and connect the wires in the service breaker box to a 220 breaker. The size of the breaker and the outlet would depend on the present wiring. So if there is 12 gauge there now, you can go with a 20 amp breaker and outlet. If there is only 14 gauge then you would go with a 15 amp outlet and breaker.
Wiring in your service box is dangerous, because even when you turn off the main circuit breaker, the lines coming in attached to the main breaker are live (and bare) So the box is never dead unless the power company shuts off the power.

I'll see if I can take some pics or draw up an image to detail things for you. Ok, so you have a dedicated outlet, the next thing we will need to know is the type of line that is run to this outlet. It will most likely be a "12/2 w G" or "14/2 w G" (gauge of wire, amount of insulated wires, plus a ground wire.) We need to know the gauge wire so you can get the correct breaker for your box. Oh yea, open the breaker box, you may need to remove the front cover as well. Find the breaker that is going to the outlet you want to switch over to 220v. Check to see if there is enough room to fit in a double pole breaker (breaker with two switches connected together). You will be removing the current breaker and adding the new double pole breaker, if room is tight they sell half height breakers that fit in the space of a single breaker. If there is room in there for the new breaker but you need to located in another spot of the box make sure the wires will reach the new location. (when the box was first setup they tend to cut things close so sometimes it's hard to rearrange things.) If all checks out then the rest is almost done. The wire will have the markings on them telling you what wire you are using and what breaker to get. 10 gauge=30amp, 12gauge=20amp, 14gauge=15amp--- breaker

right now your breaker is setup so that the black wire is connected to the breaker and the white wire and ground wire are connected to the neutral bus. When you replace this breaker with the double pole breaker you connect the white and black wire to the breaker and only the ground wire to the neutral/ground bus/bar. It doesn't matter which side of the breaker the black and white wires are connected to. I did this with the power live last week although I wouldn't recommend it to someone else to do. So make sure you turn the main breaker off if you can which will kill power to your whole box except the main power (Big power lines)coming to this main breaker (usually the upper most breaker). It's pretty straight forward. Hopefully I didn't confuse things to much. Like I said earlier I'll try to get some pics or diagram drawn up to make things a bit clearer. Ask if you don't understand or have any questions.

cazador said:

I'll see if I can take some pics or draw up an image to detail things for you. Ok, so you have a dedicated outlet, the next thing we will need to know is the type of line that is run to this outlet. It will most likely be a "12/2 w G" or "14/2 w G" (gauge of wire, amount of insulated wires, plus a ground wire.) We need to know the gauge wire so you can get the correct breaker for your box. Oh yea, open the breaker box, you may need to remove the front cover as well. Find the breaker that is going to the outlet you want to switch over to 220v. Check to see if there is enough room to fit in a double pole breaker (breaker with two switches connected together). You will be removing the current breaker and adding the new double pole breaker, if room is tight they sell half height breakers that fit in the space of a single breaker. If there is room in there for the new breaker but you need to located in another spot of the box make sure the wires will reach the new location. (when the box was first setup they tend to cut things close so sometimes it's hard to rearrange things.) If all checks out then the rest is almost done. The wire will have the markings on them telling you what wire you are using and what breaker to get. 10 gauge=30amp, 12gauge=20amp, 14gauge=15amp--- breaker

right now your breaker is setup so that the black wire is connected to the breaker and the white wire and ground wire are connected to the neutral bus. When you replace this breaker with the double pole breaker you connect the white and black wire to the breaker and only the ground wire to the neutral/ground bus/bar. It doesn't matter which side of the breaker the black and white wires are connected to. I did this with the power live last week although I wouldn't recommend it to someone else to do. So make sure you turn the main breaker off if you can which will kill power to your whole box except the main power (Big power lines)coming to this main breaker (usually the upper most breaker). It's pretty straight forward. Hopefully I didn't confuse things to much. Like I said earlier I'll try to get some pics or diagram drawn up to make things a bit clearer. Ask if you don't understand or have any questions.

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Thanks, appreciate it, but I'm still kinda leery - actually just put the breaker box cover back on - had taken it off and was looking at it and imagining what my body would smell like with all those amps running through it.

Anyways, after getting back from Home Depot and seeing/remembering how big and heavy 8x4 pieces of plywood are, I've got a new game plan.

Have 60 amps in there (3 dedicated 20 amp circuits), and I was trying to build a "structure" because I wanted to get away with running 1 AC (14000BTUs) for the entire garage, but I'm starting to think that I don't have to.

Thinking I could have the 8x8 DarkRoom tent with two 1Ks in there and an AC, and that would be a totally sealed environment.

Would also move my vegging trays/lights/etc. into my 4x4 tent, which would make enough room for me to put a smaller portable in there - thinking like 8000 BTUs should do it? Anyone know? I'm no AC expert, and the ambient temps could get up to 110ish on uber hot days, but I think 8000BTUs should be sufficient for a 400HPS and some fluoros.

So now it comes down to handling that energy load - the 14000BTU AC pulls 1200 watts, so that could share a circuit with the 400HPS (and still be under the 80% safety threshold).

Circuit #2 would be a 1K and the smaller AC, which is ~800 watts - again, right at the 75% safety zone.

Circuit #3 would be the other 1K, pumps, fluoros, etc - wouldn't need a dehumidifier anymore because of the two ACs.

That scenario would just force me to enrich the veg tent with CO2 (because it'd be fully sealed), which ain't that big of a deal - just buy another regulator and a timer.

The only thing (well, one of the things) that sucks about not being able to cool the entire garage is that air-cooling the lights is now impossible - makes no sense to pull in 100F air from the outside to cool them.

Of course, it'll sure make setup easy without having to worry about installing any ducting

So, I have three questions:

1) Does anyone see any issues with the circuits being loaded the way I foresee? Of course a 240V circuit would solve all of my problems, but I'm quite leery about that - that being said, if the answer to my next question is "no", I guess I'm just gonna have to bite the bullet.

2) Does anyone know anything about running sealed rooms and the size of AC required for that? I figure a 14000BTU should take care of an 8x8 (it's recommended for 400-525 square feet) room with 2 1Ks in it, even if it's 110 outside of the tent. Can the same be said for an 8000BTU in a 4x4 tent with a 400HPS and some fluoros?

3) When the electrician gave me those two circuits, he said that only one of them was GFCI or some such shit (something to do with grounding) - anyone know if this is an issue or not, and if it is, what it means?

Sorry for the long-windedness.

EDIT: of course, could go to 4 600s instead, which would mean:

Circuit 1 - 14000BTU AC and 1 600HPS
Circuit 2 - 3 600HPS
Circuit 3 - 1000BTU AC (pulling say 1000 watts), pumps, timers, fans, etc.

This way would cost mucho mas dinero - as opposed to buying one more 1K and a Magnum (for $500, all-in), it'd be about $1500+.

GFCI = ground fault circuit interrupter, it is meant to protect YOU from shock in the case of a short. I don't see how this will affect anything either way. (unless your standing in water, then I'd go with the GFCI if I had one)

If I were close by, I'd stop by and help connect the circuit

hey bob have you thought about using the ice box instead of a/c? thats what im going to use in my room i just built. heres the link if you dont know what it is.
http://www.growlightexpress.com/water-cooled-lights-8/ice-box-heat-exchanger-6-inch-306.html

rbahadosingh said:

hey bob have you thought about using the ice box instead of a/c? thats what im going to use in my room i just built. heres the link if you dont know what it is.
http://www.growlightexpress.com/water-cooled-lights-8/ice-box-heat-exchanger-6-inch-306.html

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Yeah, don't think they would really work in place of air conditioning, no matter what they say.

Also, running a 1000W chiller kinda defeats the purpose, but you never know - I was actually thinking of getting one of those to make my CO2 generator setup cooler before it arrived in my grow room.

I'm currently doing research on split ACs and their installation - think an 18000BTU split AC could handle the whole garage, and wouldn't require me building anything too crazy - just need to know what it looks like on the outside (for security reasons, can't have anyone wondering why I've spent so much money to cool a garage where I just "store stuff" - my friends are curious and nosy creatures).