Botanicare organics unstable

Mr.Bloombastic

Well-Known Member
This is my second grow with botanicare pro organics and again I am having nute lock out! every time I check the ph of my feed its different! I mix at 6.7 and come back to feed again the next day and it 8 and I go to lower the ph with solution and it will not go down. this shit is going down the drain and I will go to stuff that works! I got 2 lbs off one light with GH and now I cant even get 1 lb. And of course you know what everyone says right? " OH?, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF THAT HAPPENING. YOUR THE FIRST PERSON TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM" Ya right!
 

melungeonman

Active Member
I Use both pro, and power for soil. I use bloombastic in the end of bloom to tighten. never a swing in nutes in hydro, never a swing in soil, with huge results. Really never heard much if any at all, neg, on these products. Hell I was and have been calling these products Idiot proof.Not Saying your an Idiot. You more than likely are not. but something is amis here. strange things happen. Free chlorimines in your water? city water engineers fuck up. you get huge swings in water just from unstable free chlorimines. Sometimes they will use this stuff for spikes in bacterias and you will have a light chlorine smell in your tap water. this happens here but never had any problem with it swinging botanicare.
 

Mr.Bloombastic

Well-Known Member
Ya, its really weird! I talked with the guys at the grow store and they have never heard of this. So in a 5 gallon bucket I mix 30ml of pure blend bloom, 15ml of liquid karma, 1 tblsp of molasses and the ph reads 4.3ish. tried half that dose today and it read 5.2, so it makes no sense. I have a ph pen, strips, and drips and they all read the same. SOOO I have gone to General. But your right, it doesnt take many brain cells to mix nutes but this problem makes me lose my shit and makes absolutely no sense so I'm done with it.
 

Nullis

Moderator
You are using pH Up and Down to try and 'fix' your solutions?

And what exactly are you growing in, a soil or soil-less mix? There should be dolomite\calcitic lime in the mix. Don't fuss with the pH of your solutions with drops.
 

GrowinDad

Well-Known Member
I have the same issues but with Fox Farms. I have been running some experiments. I was using tap water that has sat out. My city does sometimes use chloramine. My bucket, normally wiht 1-1.5 gallons sits in my grow room. Temps stay below 80 at all times. I had an airstone in there as well to add O2 and keep stuff moving a bit... Water with nutes was going in at 6.5 and the next morning were up above 8.

I added a water pump to avoid any nutes settling. Seems to be working welll as it sucks from the very bottom of my bucket (which is used for my drip system).

I also started to use water that had been through my Pur faucet filter in my kitchen. It is supposed to remove chloramine.

Using that I mixed some water/nutes yesterday morning. They PHd at 5.5. I let them sit until late in the afternoon. They had definitely settled somewhat in that color at top and bottom of jug was different. PH had risen to 5.61. Given that my PH pen ain't perfect, I wil call that diff margin of error. I adjusted up to 5.95. I know too low but trying to compensate for expected rise that would come. Dumped in the bucket last night about 3 hrs before lights off. This morning just after lights on, PH was 6.7 so a significant rise but much less than when it was jumping up to 8. So the filtered water seemed to have helped.

I am convinced that the nutes are unstable but a certain amount of it is temp. I also read some way too technical for my brain on another forum that said PH will naturally change over the course of the day, up and down depnding on where you start, because stuff in the organic nutes change with lights, heat, etc just like the plant does. When the nutes go to sleep, PH changes so to speak. I'm not syaing it's accurate, just what I read from someone who sounded like a scientist to me.

For my next grow, I am going to get that bucket out of the grow room. I'm also moving to Dyna Grow as I've read good things about its stability.
 

Mr.Bloombastic

Well-Known Member
I have the same issues but with Fox Farms. I have been running some experiments. I was using tap water that has sat out. My city does sometimes use chloramine. My bucket, normally wiht 1-1.5 gallons sits in my grow room. Temps stay below 80 at all times. I had an airstone in there as well to add O2 and keep stuff moving a bit... Water with nutes was going in at 6.5 and the next morning were up above 8.

I added a water pump to avoid any nutes settling. Seems to be working welll as it sucks from the very bottom of my bucket (which is used for my drip system).

I also started to use water that had been through my Pur faucet filter in my kitchen. It is supposed to remove chloramine.

Using that I mixed some water/nutes yesterday morning. They PHd at 5.5. I let them sit until late in the afternoon. They had definitely settled somewhat in that color at top and bottom of jug was different. PH had risen to 5.61. Given that my PH pen ain't perfect, I wil call that diff margin of error. I adjusted up to 5.95. I know too low but trying to compensate for expected rise that would come. Dumped in the bucket last night about 3 hrs before lights off. This morning just after lights on, PH was 6.7 so a significant rise but much less than when it was jumping up to 8. So the filtered water seemed to have helped.

I am convinced that the nutes are unstable but a certain amount of it is temp. I also read some way too technical for my brain on another forum that said PH will naturally change over the course of the day, up and down depnding on where you start, because stuff in the organic nutes change with lights, heat, etc just like the plant does. When the nutes go to sleep, PH changes so to speak. I'm not syaing it's accurate, just what I read from someone who sounded like a scientist to me.

For my next grow, I am going to get that bucket out of the grow room. I'm also moving to Dyna Grow as I've read good things about its stability.
That actually makes sense to me and thought about that and just brushed it off as being over thinking things but I have removed the feed bucket from the room to keep the temp away from it and also took the air stones out and just have a pump circulating things. I am so glad I am not the only one that this happened too because it made no sense at all.
thanks man!!
 

Mr.Bloombastic

Well-Known Member
You are using pH Up and Down to try and 'fix' your solutions?

And what exactly are you growing in, a soil or soil-less mix? There should be dolomite\calcitic lime in the mix. Don't fuss with the pH of your solutions with drops.
I use ph up and down to fix the problem and I grow in promix #4
 

Mr.Bloombastic

Well-Known Member
I am going to do side by side grow comparison between Botanicare pure blend pro and General Hydroponics and see which produces better. I will let the botanicare sit for a day and then take readings before I feed with it. One thing I noticed though is that the air stone causes separation in the botanicare and adding a pump heats up the water so will hafto play around a bit! I will post it here.
 

Nullis

Moderator
The thing is, I do not believe you are fixing anything with the pH Up or Down. Those are only short term 'solutions' and in my view probably only complicate the situation.

Not familiar with Pro-mix #4, I can't find any info on it (not Sunshine Adv. Mix #4?) from a quick search but it's a soil-less mix obviously.

pH fluctuations are entirely normal. If you're trying to grow organically and use beneficial microbes, the microbes are going to balance the pH of the medium, along with the plant. They're not going to like pH Up or Down flustering shit. But, for example, if you have an organic nutrient solution with a low pH and you aerate it for a day and let microbes proliferate in solution- the pH is going to increase naturally.

Also, what kind of water are you using? Just try to use rain or filtered and don't pH it, it should be fine.
 

GrowinDad

Well-Known Member
I am starting to agree with Nullis. Maybe the PH balancers aren't stable?! But here's a theory. I know folks you say you shouldn't feed daily. But I also know that my drip system does and my root system has not been an issue. So... If my problem is that the Ph adjusts in the feeding bucket, then if I abandon it and manually feed daily, the stuff going in could be PHd and in essence not be sitting in the soil long enough to change before being consumed. A light feed daily with PHd water.

I am feeling good about my next grow based on learnings from my current one. This PH mystery, basically how to avoid lock-out, is the last one remaining for me, for now. There is something not right with my current plants but luckily I am only a couple weeks from harvest and they are far from death.

Question: my hairs are still mostly white, just starting to see some red ones pop. Acc'd to Fox Farms chart, two weeks to harvest. Buds don't seem to be growing much anymore. Is that normal? I am guessing yes but it is my first first real grow. So I am curious if that is because something ain't ideal for the girls or just how it happens.
 

Mr.Bloombastic

Well-Known Member
The thing is, I do not believe you are fixing anything with the pH Up or Down. Those are only short term 'solutions' and in my view probably only complicate the situation.

Not familiar with Pro-mix #4, I can't find any info on it (not Sunshine Adv. Mix #4?) from a quick search but it's a soil-less mix obviously.

pH fluctuations are entirely normal. If you're trying to grow organically and use beneficial microbes, the microbes are going to balance the pH of the medium, along with the plant. They're not going to like pH Up or Down flustering shit. But, for example, if you have an organic nutrient solution with a low pH and you aerate it for a day and let microbes proliferate in solution- the pH is going to increase naturally.

Also, what kind of water are you using? Just try to use rain or filtered and don't pH it, it should be fine.
HAHAHA its Promix BX. i used to use sunshine #4.
 

Mr.Bloombastic

Well-Known Member
I am starting to agree with Nullis. Maybe the PH balancers aren't stable?! But here's a theory. I know folks you say you shouldn't feed daily. But I also know that my drip system does and my root system has not been an issue. So... If my problem is that the Ph adjusts in the feeding bucket, then if I abandon it and manually feed daily, the stuff going in could be PHd and in essence not be sitting in the soil long enough to change before being consumed. A light feed daily with PHd water.

I am feeling good about my next grow based on learnings from my current one. This PH mystery, basically how to avoid lock-out, is the last one remaining for me, for now. There is something not right with my current plants but luckily I am only a couple weeks from harvest and they are far from death.

Question: my hairs are still mostly white, just starting to see some red ones pop. Acc'd to Fox Farms chart, two weeks to harvest. Buds don't seem to be growing much anymore. Is that normal? I am guessing yes but it is my first first real grow. So I am curious if that is because something ain't ideal for the girls or just how it happens.
Orange hair s are totally normal and I never harvest before 8 weeks and usually go 9 unless its a sativa though. or get a jewejers magnifying glass and look at the tricomes
 
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