Blue Mountian Organics

Has anybody used BMO with coco? I've been reading that you should only use nutes that are specifically made for coco, but Ohso says that that you can use BMO with coco. I was just wondering what your results were if you did. When hand watering coco, people usually water til they get 10-15% run off to make sure there is no salt build up. If using BMO with coco, would you need to worry about salt build up? I don't mind watering 2 times a day if I have to, 15% run off is a waste of nutes IMO!

Ohso your thoughts?

D2G

down2grow said:

Has anybody used BMO with coco? I've been reading that you should only use nutes that are specifically made for coco, but Ohso says that that you can use BMO with coco. I was just wondering what your results were if you did. When hand watering coco, people usually water til they get 10-15% run off to make sure there is no salt build up. If using BMO with coco, would you need to worry about salt build up? I don't mind watering 2 times a day if I have to, 15% run off is a waste of nutes IMO!

Ohso your thoughts?

D2G

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D2G.... I also think that amount of runoff is a waste. Here is how you avoid that waste. Go to Wal-mart and in the isle with flower pots, pick up a clear plastic pot drain pan (sold to keep you indoor potted plants runoff water from ruining the carpet) for each pot you have.
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Before you fill each pot with coco, cut and run two pieces of 1/4 nylon rope (wicks) out the bottom, thru the pot drain holes. Just thread your wick in one hole then out the other side, so you basically make a U shape with each end of the wick sticking out the drain holes a couple of inches. They don't need to be very long, just enough to help drawn in water / nutes.
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That way, you can water / feed only until a slight runoff is seen, then stop. The excess will sit in the drain pan and be wicked back into the coco by the wicks. Just keep the amount of water in your drain pans, like under 1/2 inch (max).
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Then once a week, remove, wash & rinse each of your drain pans (aka-overflow reservoirs). To avoid a build up on nutes in the coco, just feed, water, water, feed, in rotation.
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Any nutes can be used with coco, if they have higher P & K numbers. Since coco tends to lock up P & K, withholding it from your plants roots until enough is present.
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I'd just start off with 1/2 oz of GIG (NPK 5-2-5), and a light dose of FP (NPK 1-8-7), like 1/4 oz per gallon of water. That would give you a NPK value of 5.5 - 6 - 8.5. Then the very next feeding, use only 1/2 oz of FP (NPK 1-8-7) per gallon of water.
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The key to this strategy is simple. A good amount of the P & K just get locked up in coco, there is no avoiding it. So you have to give more P & K thru the whole grow. By alternating fertilizer mixes, you let the N get used pretty much as you go & keep just enough extra P & K to ensure the roots actually get what they need. Since, that coco is going to be holding onto & not letting go of a fair amount of P & K.
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Depending on the strain you are growing, you may need to feed more (slightly stronger mixing strength), but probably not less.
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The feed, water, water, feed, in rotation - is basically a ongoing light flush that helps avoid build up of nutes in the medium (coco), so Mary stays happy & healthy......
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Hope this helps.....
Keep it Real....Organic....
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ohso, when changing to flowering stage , a week before I change the light schedule should i start my plants on the bmo bloom nutes?? and how long do i use the spt all the way through? and also can you reccomend any flowering boosters that go good with the bmo line?

Toppers said:

sounds good, if you haven't already the only thing I would recommend is a general hydro PH up and PH down kit to keep things in check. It's almost as if the myco life sent my PH through the 8 range several times on me and if it wasn't for the kit, I would have lost the crop for sure. GL to ya

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that would be the bacteria. I had some probs. Fungi is what you need, they acidify the soil so that it stays balanced. The soil web has to have both to work.

bacteria raises it, fungo lowers it. Also a quick ph down before yhou feed works, I am sure you found that out.


I hate ph lockout. I got it handled.

GHOPZZ said:

ohso, when changing to flowering stage , a week before I change the light schedule should i start my plants on the bmo bloom nutes?? and how long do i use the spt all the way through? and also can you reccomend any flowering boosters that go good with the bmo line?

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GHOPZZ.... Yes, start dropping the mixing strength on the GIG and start using the FP. This will help when you switch the light schedule. The plant will read both the reduced light / greater darkness and reduced N as signs / triggers to start flowering.
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For a bloom boost, I'd just mix the FP at 2 oz to a gallon of water and give each plant only one quart. That makes a nice "one time" boost, that will not fry your plants.
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I'm not much of a fan of the 0-50-30 bloom boosters, made by just about eveyone who sells ferts. They kill the micro-beasties in your soil and can easily toxify your soil and cause huge pH swings (that equals - nute lockout). I've seen these over-used and yields actually went down.....
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When it comes to yields, either the plant is a good yielder or not, it's mostly genetic.
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real....Organic.....
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Hey everyone... I also forgot to add, that on straight coco grows, you do have to adjust the pH (of your water and/or nutes) into the range of 5.2 to 6 for best results. Below or above that, and you will have nute lockout issues.
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Keep it Real.....Organic....
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ohso, where on your chart so i strat when beginning my flowering?? my plants are about 3.5ft tall? i have about 55days of flowering ahead of me, i just want to start it off right.

Ohsogreen said:

Hey everyone... I also forgot to add, that on straight coco grows, you do have to adjust the pH (of your water and/or nutes) into the range of 5.2 to 6 for best results. Below or above that, and you will have nute lockout issues.
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Keep it Real.....Organic....
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hey ohso, how would you go about regulating the ph if you were growing in coco? i've read that organic nutes like BMO's line dont really register on PH meters, and i can't imagine they would like being subjected to things like PHup and PH down....

Ohsogreen said:

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GHOPZZ.... Yes, start dropping the mixing strength on the GIG and start using the FP. This will help when you switch the light schedule. The plant will read both the reduced light / greater darkness and reduced N as signs / triggers to start flowering.
.
For a bloom boost, I'd just mix the FP at 2 oz to a gallon of water and give each plant only one quart. That makes a nice "one time" boost, that will not fry your plants.
.
I'm not much of a fan of the 0-50-30 bloom boosters, made by just about eveyone who sells ferts. They kill the micro-beasties in your soil and can easily toxify your soil and cause huge pH swings (that equals - nute lockout). I've seen these over-used and yields actually went down.....
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When it comes to yields, either the plant is a good yielder or not, it's mostly genetic.
.
Hope this helps....
Keep it Real....Organic.....
.
.

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when you say to give only one quart per plant of the 2 oz per gallon Bloom boost you were mentioning, give them just a quart and no additional water? or give the quart per plant of the Bloom mix and then water more in addition to the fert?
much thanks
-nb.

somebody041 said:

hey ohso, how would you go about regulating the ph if you were growing in coco? i've read that organic nutes like BMO's line dont really register on PH meters, and i can't imagine they would like being subjected to things like PHup and PH down....

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Somebody041.... Organic nutes will register on pH meters. When you mix them up, they will change over time (either going up or down - a lot depends on the water you mix them with).
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You've probably heard that TDS meters don't help much with Organic Nutes, that is true. You can't read Organic Nutes with a TDS Meter like with chem nutes to determine feeding strengths.
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With organics, you have to follow the label on bottled stuff. Or if making your own, follow receipes already worked out by others through trial & error.
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For coco growing, you need your nutes in the 5 to 6 range of pH for best results. Shoot for the middle of that range and it's all cake.
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It helps a lot to read the pH of the runoff twice a week. Just take some water with a pH of 6 and pour it through until you get runoff. Take that runoff water and check the pH. Did the number go up or down from the pH of 6 your poured through ?
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If it went down, you can make a mild High P Bat Guano Tea and add it, instead of a pH up product.
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If it went up, you can make a mild High N Bat Guano Tea and add it, instead of a pH down product.
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You can use pH up & down products (in moderation) in organics, but I prefer to use amendments like guanos to balance things out. Use of pH up or down products from a bottle, as a general rule, equals the death of some micro-beasties (not all).
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real...Organic....
.
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notoriousb said:

when you say to give only one quart per plant of the 2 oz per gallon Bloom boost you were mentioning, give them just a quart and no additional water? or give the quart per plant of the Bloom mix and then water more in addition to the fert?
much thanks
-nb.

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NotoriusB.... Yes, just a quart of your beefed up bloom fert per plant and no additional water. Do this early in the morning before lights on or sun up for best results. No additional water or fertilzer of any kind to follow, that day.
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The ideal is to present a mild, but concentrated amount of fertilizer. The Flower Power (NPK 1-8-7) at 4 times the normal strength (2 oz to a gallon of water), makes an NPK of 4-32-28, which is a stout (one time bump), but not in the death zone.....
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Hope this helps....
Keep it Real...Organic.....
.
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Ohsogreen said:

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Somebody041.... Organic nutes will register on pH meters. When you mix them up, they will change over time (either going up or down - a lot depends on the water you mix them with).
.
You've probably heard that TDS meters don't help much with Organic Nutes, that is true. You can't read Organic Nutes with a TDS Meter like with chem nutes to determine feeding strengths.
.
With organics, you have to follow the label on bottled stuff. Or if making your own, follow receipes already worked out by others through trial & error.
.
For coco growing, you need your nutes in the 5 to 6 range of pH for best results. Shoot for the middle of that range and it's all cake.
.
It helps a lot to read the pH of the runoff twice a week. Just take some water with a pH of 6 and pour it through until you get runoff. Take that runoff water and check the pH. Did the number go up or down from the pH of 6 your poured through ?
.
If it went down, you can make a mild High P Bat Guano Tea and add it, instead of a pH up product.
.
If it went up, you can make a mild High N Bat Guano Tea and add it, instead of a pH down product.
.
You can use pH up & down products (in moderation) in organics, but I prefer to use amendments like guanos to balance things out. Use of pH up or down products from a bottle, as a general rule, equals the death of some micro-beasties (not all).
.
Hope this helps....
Keep it Real...Organic....
.
.

Click to expand...

thanks so much ohso, once again you go above and beyond to help educate others.

i was not aware that you could use ph up and ph down products on organics. i have just been tossing 2 tbls dolomite lime per gallon of soil and haven't really been worrying about ph and haven't really had to (that's in soil by the way)

do you recommend "organic" ph up and down like earth juice's over the common brands like general hydroponics?

i also think i read on another board you recommend bubbling the water with ph up/down in it for 24 hours before using it for anything involving a microherd. is this because the bubbling of the water makes it easier for the beasties to handle?


sorry for all of the questions, but i've never been able to get a straight answer regarding organics and ph. on other boards (icmag) they do NOT recommend using ph up and down with teas and whatnot. but my hydro store is very knowledgeable and all workers insist that ph up and down is fine in teas.

GHOPZZ said:

ohso, where on your chart so i strat when beginning my flowering?? my plants are about 3.5ft tall? i have about 55days of flowering ahead of me, i just want to start it off right.

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GHOPZZ..... Here is that feeding chart.......
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somebody041 said:

thanks so much ohso, once again you go above and beyond to help educate others.

i was not aware that you could use ph up and ph down products on organics. i have just been tossing 2 tbls dolomite lime per gallon of soil and haven't really been worrying about ph and haven't really had to (that's in soil by the way)

do you recommend "organic" ph up and down like earth juice's over the common brands like general hydroponics?

i also think i read on another board you recommend bubbling the water with ph up/down in it for 24 hours before using it for anything involving a microherd. is this because the bubbling of the water makes it easier for the beasties to handle?


sorry for all of the questions, but i've never been able to get a straight answer regarding organics and ph. on other boards (icmag) they do NOT recommend using ph up and down with teas and whatnot. but my hydro store is very knowledgeable and all workers insist that ph up and down is fine in teas.

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Somebody041.... You're welcome. I do think Earth Juice pH up & down are better products than the GH stuff. But, honestly, either will work.
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The reason to adjust the water prior to starting a tea is, the tea ingredients are going to alter the pH. High N Bat Guano is acidic by nature and when added to water, to start bubbling a tea, it will drive pH down; and will continue to do so over time. It will bottom out after about 24 hours of bubbling.
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On the same note, High P Bat Guano is alkaline by nature and when added to water, to start bubbling a tea, will drive pH up; and will continue to do so over time. It will also reach it's peak at just over 24 hours of bubbling.
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So knowing that, start with water at pH of 7 when you are going to add acidic amendments and start at a pH of 5 when you are going to add akaline amendments. Then your tea will work towards the middle, over time, as the extra oxygen fires up the micro-beasties and they do their thing.
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Just when adding pH up or down, it is best to bubble the water (you adjusted with the pH up or down) for an hour, to let the pH truly stablize, prior to adding ingredients. Sometimes a second adjustment is needed.
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After you have the water pH right, add your amendments and don't sweat it. Just bubble that tea for 24 or more and water it in.
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Hope this helps.....
Keep it Real...Organic.... or as close a possible.....
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Ohsogreen said:

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NotoriusB.... Yes, just a quart of your beefed up bloom fert per plant and no additional water. Do this early in the morning before lights on or sun up for best results. No additional water or fertilzer of any kind to follow, that day.
.
The ideal is to present a mild, but concentrated amount of fertilizer. The Flower Power (NPK 1-8-7) at 4 times the normal strength (2 oz to a gallon of water), makes an NPK of 4-32-28, which is a stout (one time bump), but not in the death zone.....
.
Hope this helps....
Keep it Real...Organic.....
.
.

Click to expand...

Thanks again OhSo. always so thorough in your responses.
now I'm wondering if I should water heavily the day before or after I used the suped-up bloom mix? or just stick to my original schedule of feeding every 3rd watering and treat the strong bloom fert as just another regular feeding?
haha hope that makes sense
thanks man

notoriousb said:

Thanks again OhSo. always so thorough in your responses.
now I'm wondering if I should water heavily the day before or after I used the suped-up bloom mix? or just stick to my original schedule of feeding every 3rd watering and treat the strong bloom fert as just another regular feeding?
haha hope that makes sense
thanks man

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NotoriousB... You're welcome. Just treat this one time "power shot", as a strong feeding, maintain your rotation / schedule of watering & feeding and it's all good.
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Hope this helps...
Keep it Real...Organic...
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Ohsogreen said:

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NotoriousB... You're welcome. Just treat this one time "power shot", as a strong feeding, maintain your rotation / schedule of watering & feeding and it's all good.
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Hope this helps...
Keep it Real...Organic...
.
.

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Always helps man. thanks again.
I don't mean to get off topic, but what do you think about MaxSea ferts? I saw in a post from last year you had picked some up on a trade, but didnt hear about any results. I really enjoy the BMO line, but the NPK levels in the MaxSea look like they'd really blow some plants up. they're organic though yea? couldn't find too much info on their ferts.
thanks
-nb.

Lol k OhSo, this is my last question for awhile, PROMISE
I have a bottle of the Tiger Bloom a friend gave me and I also have the the whole BMO line. and I've been using the BMO ferts through my whole grow, and a couple plants are starting to flower so I want to start feeding them bloom ferts. but the BMO bloom fert is a little low for my liking at 1-8-7 and I was wondering if I could supplement that with the Tiger Bloom 2-8-4 to make a 3-16-11 fert. you think my birds will be ok with a mix like that? and what amount of what should I mix per gallon?
thanks
-nb.

Ohso,

I just read about your one time bloom boost suggestion right before you hit the switch to 12/12. Right now I'm in week 5 of flower, can I do the one time boost at 4x the strength to fatten up the nugs for the end of flower? Or should I just double the dose to get 2-16-14 to keep it safe?

With your feeding recommendation when I switch to coco(feed,water,water,feed) I'll most likely use 5.5 - 6 - 8.5 from week one of veg until week two of flower then switch to full dose of FH mixed with FP to get 3-12-9 until week 5 of flower. Will switching to 3-12-9 from week three keep them green enough through flower? I know you suggested 1/2 of FP, which I'll introduce in week 4 of veg(one time boost here with coco or no?) to induce flowering and continue to keep that in the rotation. Canna has a product in their line up (Canna PK 13-14) that is used in bloom. I was thinking about doubling FP (2-16-14) from week 5 through 6 and then start flushing. Sorry if I made this confusing, but does it sound like a plan as far as a feeding schedule with coco?

Thanks again for helping me and many others with keeping it real and organic!! Peace!!

D2G

Ohsogreen said:

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Just when adding pH up or down, it is best to bubble the water (you adjusted with the pH up or down) for an hour, to let the pH truly stablize, prior to adding ingredients. Sometimes a second adjustment is needed.
.
After you have the water pH right, add your amendments and don't sweat it. Just bubble that tea for 24 or more and water it in.
.
Hope this helps.....
Keep it Real...Organic.... or as close a possible.....
.
.
.

Click to expand...

So I should bubble my Earth Juice ph down (at a 6.8 ph) for 24 hours in water. Then add all of my nutes (BMO, Molasses, MorBloom, Fulvex) and bubble (I usually get a nice tea in about 16-18 hours). Then don't worry about the ph and just water it in? What if this throws my ph all out of sync? I'm trying to get a hang on the organic/ph thing as well without it being too difficult. Is it okay to adjust the ph AFTER I have made the tea (If the ph in 8 or 5), or will this kill the microbes? Thanks for the help everyone!