Bleaching powders

natureboygrower said:

Not sure about loss,but I averaged close to 4 grams of distillate running Outdoor mids using Gws extraction and filtering process.My yields went down the older the product was.The only indoor flower Ive run was older and mostly larf.This winter I'll run some nice frosty Bodhi gear thru,just cured.Pics are of the filtering process using DE and activated hardwood charcoal.I had to mess with my numbers(grams of de,grams of carbon) but after a little trial and error I was happy with the outcome.Meaning,yielding around the same amount of distillate after each simple distillation.Makes a nice cart with no thinner or terps required.And the edibles with the oil are really nice.

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Nice job brother!

Without more information, I'm not sure how to put 4 grams yield into perspective, relative to losses to the charcoal.

I do however see a way to compare them to other filtration media, and that is to try them. It's all relatively inexpensive, and it doesn't take much.

I note these folks are using colloidal silica for 75% of their filter length, which is what we used in our chromatography columns.

Stuff sticks to them, but they don't absorb anything.

The Magnesol is used to clean cooking grease of flavors, odors, and color

Fadedawg said:

Don't feel bad, the post was to stir up business, not educate you as to intimate details.

What they've done is weld a sintered stainless filter disc in the bottom of a stainless column, and packed the first 75% of its length (4.5") with T-5 colloidal silica, another 12% (0.72") with Magnesol filter powder, and topped off with 12% (0.72") Silica gel 200, 400 mesh.

They say they use a 20 ton press to pack it evenly, but my guess is that the full 20 tons isn't required. Their point about channeling is valid, so it needs to be packed evenly as you load it, not loaded and then pressed.

They note a media retention device, which I read as another sintered filter plate on top.

No mention of back pressure, which will determine where it might be used. They mention it works better as a recirculating filter than a single pass. I'm pretty sure that is correct as well, and how I would use it.

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Ive been waiting for you bossman.

Fadedawg said:

Nice job brother!

Without more information, I'm not sure how to put 4 grams yield into perspective, relative to losses to the charcoal.

I do however see a way to compare them to other filtration media, and that is to try them. It's all relatively inexpensive, and it doesn't take much.

I note these folks are using colloidal silica for 75% of their filter length, which is what we used in our chromatography columns.

Stuff sticks to them, but they don't absorb anything.

The Magnesol is used to clean cooking grease of flavors, odors, and color

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I understand your point. Fwiw,I was just pointing out how much I yielded per ounce of flower(which i forgot to include and has been edited) Since I was running the same strain,that was the number I aimed for.

gwpharms said:

That's refreshing to hear someone say they actually tried . Im not exaggerating when I say once a week someone says "i heard" and when i ask where they dont know and if they tried it's almost always no. I heard people refer to the old text from the 60's and of course cannabis alchemy. Some stuff I have seen describes using gravity filtration which wouldn't work well. Also seen using wrong mesh and wrong source
Did you try again a different way? What carbon source and mesh did you use ? What did you use as a filter aid? Did you do hot or cold filter?
Do you have the paper you wrote on it and the test results and numbers to share?

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Wow. Did you just ask questions? Then you will be in the same place as me. Keep using my words...

Fadedawg said:

Yes I've filtered using activated charcoal, and it removed the contaminants I was trying to remove, along with some of the THC.

What perpetuates the story, is people who've actually tried it, reporting their experience.

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Maybe i heard from you big dawg? LOL. who is to say i dident try. Oh and hear this fade... someone is using your handle on reddit. They have nothing on you imo.

I wasn't picking you apart I was just asking what you did . Don't be so defensive

gwpharms said:

I wasn't picking you apart I was just asking what you did . Don't be so defensive

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Not our first or only clash, so late in the game for that plaudit brother.

Can I infer you are also unaware of how defensive and misdirecting your last attached statement is and you are not going to rise to my challenge to tell us all the proper way to filter with activated charcoal, so as to not lose cannabinoids?

710slickxx said:

Maybe i heard from you big dawg? LOL. who is to say i dident try. Oh and hear this fade... someone is using your handle on reddit. They have nothing on you imo.

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Ummmm, good to know, as I'm not on Reddit. May I ask their exact handle?

We had a similar problem with someone selling Skunkpharm butane. It is easier to steal gravitas plagiarizing another's name and reputation, than create your own the same way they did day by day.

Folks who steal names, are unfortunately also by definition flim flam and bull shit artists.

natureboygrower said:

I understand your point. Fwiw,I was just pointing out how much I yielded per ounce of flower(which i forgot to include and has been edited) Since I was running the same strain,that was the number I aimed for.

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In perspective, that is 4gm/28.3 gm= .14, and 14 % is a relatively low yield.

Do you check for intact trichome heads with a microscope or loupe after extraction?

A short bragging rights run, followed by a run to glean what's left, can be a good thang, if you keep them separate.

It is also a good thang to not leave anything on the table that you don't have to, either on the plant material or in the filtration media.

gwpharms said:

I wasn't picking you apart I was just asking what you did . Don't be so defensive

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Ok maybe im being a jerk, but it pisses me off when i get the 3rd degree when im looking for a little help understanding something like future 4200. I cant believe you are on this website and never asked a question.

Fadedawg said:

Ummmm, good to know, as I'm not on Reddit. May I ask their exact handle?

We had a similar problem with someone selling Skunkpharm butane. It is easier to steal gravitas plagiarizing another's name and reputation, than create your own the same way they did day by day.

Folks who steal names, are unfortunately also by definition flim flam and bull shit artists.

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I will email you a screenshot if i see em again

Fadedawg said:

In perspective, that is 4gm/28.3 gm= .14, and 14 % is a relatively low yield.

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I thought it was a little low but not terribly awful? Lots of variables at play but mainly outdoor mids having to finish up in September, probably had a lot to do with it.Also,see below

Fadedawg said:

Do you check for intact trichome heads with a microscope or loupe after extraction?

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I did after one of my last extractions.There was material intact.I believe I'm packing too much flower in the column.

natureboygrower said:

I thought it was a little low but not terribly awful? Lots of variables at play but mainly outdoor mids having to finish up in September, probably had a lot to do with it.Also,see below

I did after one of my last extractions.There was material intact.I believe I'm packing too much flower in the column.

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Maybe -10 to 20% low??? Hard to say when talking about "Mids", as the term can mean a number of things.

How does your extraction process work? Column or soak?

Fadedawg said:

Maybe -10 to 20% low??? Hard to say when talking about "Mids", as the term can mean a number of things.

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"Mids" meaning I live in Coastal Northern New England where the weather turns to shit by September.Every morning the plants need to have water shaken off them or youll surely get rot/pm.Resulting in me having to use subpar genetics that finish early but dont pack much punch or as nearly as frosty as my indoor.

Fadedawg said:

How does your extraction process work? Column or soak?

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Soxhlet

natureboygrower said:

"Mids" meaning I live in Coastal Northern New England where the weather turns to shit by September.Every morning the plants need to have water shaken off them or youll surely get rot/pm.Resulting in me having to use subpar genetics that finish early but dont pack much punch or as nearly as frosty as my indoor.

Soxhlet

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Thanks! Mids here can mean what's left, after the prime stuff is cherry picked.

We have short outdoor seasons here too, so most of the outdoor Oregon cannabis is grown further south in the emerald triangle.

I say yours seems low, because we typically yield greater than 18% with our strains grown in holes in the ground. 18%/14%= 1.29 A true comparison would require splitting a single lot.

May I ask what solvent you are using?

14% retturn from a outdoor grow? doesn't sound to bad. Probably means your plants were about 14 15%. Pretty sweet for poor genetics and a unforgiving climate. If it was a 20+% return from what you described, I'd wonder what impurities are in there.

natureboygrower said:

"Mids" meaning I live in Coastal Northern New England where the weather turns to shit by September.Every morning the plants need to have water shaken off them or youll surely get rot/pm.Resulting in me having to use subpar genetics that finish early but dont pack much punch or as nearly as frosty as my indoor.

Soxhlet

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gwpharms said:

14% retturn from a outdoor grow? doesn't sound to bad. Probably means your plants were about 14 15%. Pretty sweet for poor genetics and a unforgiving climate. If it was a 20+% return from what you described, I'd wonder what impurities are in there.

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On the other hand, considering Occam's razor, it could mean that you left a part of your yield in the charcoal.

14% wouldn't be considered sweet in this similarly unforgiving climate and it is considered common knowledge in the industry that activated charcoal absorbs some of the cannabinoids, which is why it isn't commonly and universally used.

Legalization here required testing, so we don't have to wonder what impurities are present, nor do we have it as an excuse to fall back when we get a poor yield.

Hard to beat perfection brother! If that's how you perceive 14% yield, you should keep on doing what you're doing.

Brothers and sisters who wouldn't be happy with that yield, should move from the 1960's, to the 21st century in selecting both their process and their filtration media.

As a slight deviation from this thread, there are ways to enhance plants grown in the ground.

Rather than stick them in the ground and let nature take its course, we typically dig a big hole and fill it with a topsoil mix when planting, then water it with the same fish fertilizer/enzyme tea we feed our indoor beauties. I've seen plants grown to the size of small bushy trees that way in southern OR, with yields in the pounds.

Starting with decent genetics, the more we love, fondle, and care for Sweet Mary, the more she seems to smile back.

By Impurities I mean dissolved solids fats and waxes. Not residual solvent or pesticides that we all test for.. Its hard to say not knowing the % of his flowers but I'd doubt it was as high as your outdoor. I'd put my money on it being 15% based on his description. Like Canadian government weed. As for me if I process biomass that tests say, 25% I get about 24 25% return. I'm talking mg of thc not total weight. I never expect consistent results when I'm processing different strains of different potency and sometimes its flowers and sometimes just trimmings. Either way I don't believe myself or nature boy will be buying one of your bho cls anytime soon. I'll leave it for the people making botanicals soaps and other wax derivatives. Lots of brothers and sisters dont care for bho and all that goes with it so they seek alternatives. Fortunately its all old news and has been around for centuries. Even before the 60's and cannabis alchemy.

gwpharms said:

By Impurities I mean dissolved solids fats and waxes. Not residual solvent or pesticides that we all test for.. Its hard to say not knowing the % of his flowers but I'd doubt it was as high as your outdoor. I'd put my money on it being 15% based on his description. Like Canadian government weed. As for me if I process biomass that tests say, 25% I get about 24 25% return. I'm talking mg of thc not total weight. I never expect consistent results when I'm processing different strains of different potency and sometimes its flowers and sometimes just trimmings. Either way I don't believe myself or nature boy will be buying one of your bho cls anytime soon. I'll leave it for the people making botanicals soaps and other wax derivatives. Lots of brothers and sisters dont care for bho and all that goes with it so they seek alternatives. Fortunately its all old news and has been around for centuries. Even before the 60's and cannabis alchemy. but thanks for the info and thanks for reinventing the wheel out of butane

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It's as easy as subtracting the total cannabinoid and terpene percentage from 100% to determine percent of other.

You're welcome and just too too kind, but alas it wasn't me that reinvented that wheel, so you have me confused with another tattered old gray wolf.

I was the one who donated a closed loop design pro bono to public domain, which allowed extractors to better control the extraction parameters and to recycle their butane instead of open blasting. One that is now used world wide and marketed by a multitude of others, but not me, so Nature boy most certainly won't be buying one from me, though thus far he has been capable of speaking for himself.

I also published QWISO and QWET processes, as well as a simple pot still and a compound refluxing still for recovering/producing the ethanol, as well as designs for extracting commercially in bulk with subzero ethanol.

In addition I published a DIY super critical CO2 extraction system, dry sieve systems, and hot press dies designs, as well as processes for oil, fat, and glycerine extracting.

I could go on, but my point is that I'm an equal opportunity extractor and love them all in their place.