Bill S-10 looks like it will be defeated.

WooHoo for the opposition parties. Seems that the Liberals will not support the conservative crime bill S-10 which would see mandatory jail terms for people caught growing 6 or more MJ plants.
That and other components of the bill would have resulted in a huge increase in our prison population bringing Canada's incarceration rate closer to that of the United States. Interestingly the same conservative government unveiled plans to spend 20 billion expanding existing facilities and build new prisons to house the increase in population.

As much as I hate politicians at least the Liberals are there to keep the crazy conservative's at bay. At least I won't have to figure out a way to move to Spain or the Netherlands for a little while longer.

Do you have people in Canada that aren't "liberals" or "conservatives" ? People that simply believe in ending the partial ownership
of others and returning full body sovereignty to the individual? What would you call them?


Oh and yes, good news that S-10 will not open the door to more abuse of those presently still unable to completely own themselves.

Owning your body, labor and property 100% are good things, eh?

Rob Roy said:

Do you have people in Canada that aren't "liberals" or "conservatives" ? People that simply believe in ending the partial ownership
of others and returning full body sovereignty to the individual? What would you call them?


Oh and yes, good news that S-10 will not open the door to more abuse of those presently still unable to completely own themselves.

Owning your body, labor and property 100% are good things, eh?

Click to expand...

We have all sorts of people here in Canada...much like the US just less of us and our playroom is bigger

Yes they are good things...unfortunately in this society you have to break the law to excersise at least some of said ownership.....I get some of what you are saying but do we really want each individual to be solely responsible for themselves and themselves alone? seems to me that would make for a pretty brutal society no? Lets face it in society there are people who can be totally responsible for themselves and there are people for whatever reason can't .....what do we do with those people? Do we revert right back to caveman days??? Where survival of the fittest dictated who lives and who dies.....maybe I read your post wrong so what is complete ownership of ones self in your opinion?

Now all they have to do is make it so the senate is elected, what the fuck ever happend to that anyways?

Canada can try as hard as it wants to bring its incarceration rate closer to the USA, you aint never gonna beat it though. Us Yankees south of your border got the largest bunch of people in prison, in fact we got 25% of the world prison population here.7,225,800 people at yearend 2009 were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole. Thats like 25% of Canada's total population. Beat that Canada!!

NoDrama said:

Canada can try as hard as it wants to bring its incarceration rate closer to the USA, you aint never gonna beat it though. Us Yankees south of your border got the largest bunch of people in prison, in fact we got 25% of the world prison population here.7,225,800 people at yearend 2009 were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole. Thats like 25% of Canada's total population. Beat that Canada!!

Click to expand...

Fuck me running I was visiting my daughter and watched this show about female inmates in Georgia...one girl 5 month's pregnant spent 26 days in there for a bag of weed.....It was sad watching that......The narrators talked about that corrections is the # 1 occupation in this particular county.....Now I guess we know why they need to keep the laws the way they are. Furthermore the police seem to be tougher and more willing to throw someone in jail.....oh and i am sure you knew this but by incarceration rate I was referring to a per capita basis.

canuckgrow said:

We have all sorts of people here in Canada...much like the US just less of us and our playroom is bigger

Yes they are good things...unfortunately in this society you have to break the law to excersise at least some of said ownership.....I get some of what you are saying but do we really want each individual to be solely responsible for themselves and themselves alone? seems to me that would make for a pretty brutal society no? Lets face it in society there are people who can be totally responsible for themselves and there are people for whatever reason can't .....what do we do with those people? Do we revert right back to caveman days??? Where survival of the fittest dictated who lives and who dies.....maybe I read your post wrong so what is complete ownership of ones self in your opinion?

Click to expand...

Revert to caveman days ? Not really. We're still IN caveman days. The person or group of persons with the biggest club or in modern day terms, the most guns and bombs, STILL makes the rules don't they? What has changed ?

Let's face this, in THIS society there ARE still those who want to impose their will on others. I oppose that.

My ideal self ownership is where each individual follows the non-aggression principle. Own yourself, your property, your labor etc. and don't impose yourself on others against their wishes. My rights end where yours begin and so on.

You ask - Do "we" really want each individual to be solely responsible for themselves and themselves alone? You mischaracterize my point. It shouldn't be what "we" want. Your goals may be different from mine. Do you want me telling you what you must do under the threat of force? If you want to help others and want to enlist others to do that I'd not stand in your way, I might even help, if I share the same goals or peaceful methods you advocate.

If I have certain goals that you do not share, what right do I have to REQUIRE you to participate or forcibly extract a contribution from you? All I can ask for is if my goals do not harm you, you don't stand in my way and vice versa.

Rob Roy said:

Revert to caveman days ? Not really. We're still IN caveman days. The person or group of persons with the biggest club or in modern day terms, the most guns and bombs, STILL makes the rules don't they? What has changed ?

Let's face this, in THIS society there ARE still those who want to impose their will on others. I oppose that.

My ideal self ownership is where each individual follows the non-aggression principle. Own yourself, your property, your labor etc. and don't impose yourself on others against their wishes. My rights end where yours begin and so on.

You ask - Do "we" really want each individual to be solely responsible for themselves and themselves alone? You mischaracterize my point. It shouldn't be what "we" want. Your goals may be different from mine. Do you want me telling you what you must do under the threat of force? If you want to help others and want to enlist others to do that I'd not stand in your way, I might even help, if I share the same goals or peaceful methods you advocate.

If I have certain goals that you do not share, what right do I have to REQUIRE you to participate or forcibly extract a contribution from you? All I can ask for is if my goals do not harm you, you don't stand in my way and vice versa.

Click to expand...

Fair points,,,well maybe other than the caveman stuff being quite a stretch, but somewhat clarified your views for me thanks and + rep for keeping it civil and addressing the points....Kewl

I've been hoping to see some progress on that bill. If it gets killed in the house it won't matter that the senate is stacked with conservatives.

As far as the parties, I would say conservatives are far right, the liberals being fairly business oriented but more right-of-center, then the NDP(new democrats) being more left wing, and the green party being eco-left wing. I would say for a pure capitalism to work money production would need to be decentralized and a good marriage between market and state found. Ideally speaking we have enough resources to provide for every person on earth substantially, so logically an egalitarian and localized production and specialization society has the most merit. I would sum my point of view the way John Nash might, "You act with rational self interest in interest for the group.". A world full of doctors and lawyers can't sustain themselves, just like a world full of iron smelters and garbage men can't sustain themselves, its like a clock each piece working in unison all being powered by one initial force and all being slightly different in gear ratio and size. I like to use clock as time is so integral to our society.

As for prison time, a friend of mine has been alleged and charged with possession with intent to traffick LSD(+10), valium(+500X10mg), mdma(1/2oz), mushrooms(30g), pot(25g), and growing pot and mushrooms(no actual growth was taking place), plus they took a bunch of stuff he wasn't charged with, he was taken in sunday night saw a judge monday was out at noon on a undertaking with conditions that he had to remain living at his residence, don't break laws, the cops can search your place, and attend court. Well three weeks later they searched his house on a saturday and found a half ounce of pot, a half gram of oil; they left all his smoking things too and a vial of liquid molly. He spent 2 nights in jail was again out on monday with the same conditions. He won't see a day of jail time, first offense though.

Peace