best nutrients to use in hydro

Discussion in 'Hydroponics / Aeroponics' started by Bernie420, Mar 29, 2018.

  1.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    Closest thing I get is a thin dark film but I got a thin dark (slime) film on my rez barrel way before I started to use humic acid.
     
  2.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    PetFlora likes this.
  3.  
    rkymtnman

    rkymtnman Well-Known Member

    I don't know either. A similar product from BioAg with humic and micros says the same thing about cal nit.

    I'm going for fulvics and kelp instead.

    Just an FYI for anybody else following along.
     
    Kami Samurai and im4satori like this.
  4.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    I may not be doing it right all of the time but I can bring a plant back from near death so that has to count for something? Pics taken 3/31, 4/10, 4/18. Caused by laziness stupidity and a bad ph probe. Humic acid added every time. Right now I think i'm to hot with the ppm's so I'm going to dilute it down a tad and then foliar feed them some extreme serrene. To try to get a stretch going.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018
  5.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    Yeah i hear that fulvic acid would be the better choice than just the humic. I also use it with the idea that it helps stabilize my water from ph swings. Like I said I hardly use very much.

    I foliar feed the fulvic though you dont foliar feed regular humic acid.
     
  6.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

  7.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    See...he gets it.
     
  8.  
    dstroy

    dstroy Well-Known Member

    That sucks dude, it seems hit or miss. Works great for some and others have a bunch of problems.

    It works great for my purposes.

    I know that at 1.6EC there’s about 0.3-0.5EC of additives. So really only an EC of 1.0. I have to feed more with MC. Sometimes I go up to 1.8EC.

    I don’t run a sterile res either and really have to stay on top of cleaning, biofilm forms quickly even at sub 70f temps.

    And it smells.

    I haven’t really been growing long enough to know whether or not if it’s really “good”. I just know that it’s cheap and simple to use, and gets the job done, maybe not the best but I get some frosty nugs.
     
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  9.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    So I ran the megacrop two weeks and got an iron deficiency at about day 9 or 10 then switched to the chemgro and the iron deficiency went away in a couple of days ran that out two weeks. Did this to see what would happen.

    So I have a question in the middle of week 4 now the flowers look a little small imo. The plants look ok other than that and maybe the edges of the leaves look jagged and standing up like a taco a little bit. Is that a concern?

    ? Using the chemgro do I use the feedchart like it is posted or do I have to adjust it somehow. Seems like a lot of nitrogen and I think that is what is messing with my flowers.

    Do I just use the chemgro by itself during mid to late flowering meaning dont add any cal/nit, epsom salt or mpk?

    Last water change I backed off on the cal/nit some added the epsom salt and the mpk along with the chemgro. In my opiniom its looking like to much nitrogen and I guess im going to plan on backing that off even earlier next time.

    So where am I screwing up. Ran this strain out before never used powdered nutes till this run. Buds are looking a tad bit small for what I got before using H&G. Whats best practices with the chemgro product. Doesn't the cal/nit add a shit ton of nitrogen for flower???

    Per 100 gallons

    Chem-Gro 4-20-39 v100 100 200 200 f 200 200 300 300 400 400 400 400
    Calcium Nitrate v 100 100 200 200 f 200 200 300 300 400 400 400 400
    Magnesium Sulfate v60 60 120 120 f 180 180 200 300 400 400 300 300
    Mono-Potassium Phosphate v 0 0 0 0 f 0 0 100 100 0 0 0 0


    EC - ppm 400-500 650 650 1100 1200 1300 1500 1500 1800 1800 1700 1700
    pH 6.4 6.4 6.3 6.2 6.2 6.2 6.1 6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0
     
  10.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    chemgro 4-20-39 = mix
    calcium nitrate = calnite
    magnesium sulfate = Epsom
    mono potassium phosphate = mkp

    veg grams per gallon
    2.5 calnite
    2 Epsom
    1.5 mix

    yields
    N 118
    P 35
    K 128
    Mg 52
    Ca 125 (high depending on source water)

    bloom grams per gallon (good for all of bloom)
    2 grams calnite
    2 grams Epsom
    2 grams mix

    yields
    N 103
    P46
    K171 (high only for coco)
    mg 52
    Ca 100

    late bloom grams per gallon (optional high P and lower N but not required)
    1.6 grams calnite
    1.5 grams Epsom
    1.5 grams mix
    0.5 grams mkp

    yields
    N 81
    P 65
    K 166
    Mg 39
    Ca 80


    always mix it ther same way/ratios, dilute to desired/target EC/PPM
    for a higher EC/ppm add slightly less water
    for a lower EC/ppm add/dilute slightly more water


    take a minute and watch the yield numbers

    notice the N for example in veg is higher and then drops for bloom and drops again in late bloom

    meanwhile the P does the opposite as it increases while the N drops

    these are good mix ratios youll be very happy with
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2018
  11.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    Too much NH4+ is what people generally associate with N toxicity. It's what causes that distinct dark glossy green color. Nitrate will cause a light mat green finish.

    Yara calcium nitrate contains a 5:1 ratio of calcium nitrate to ammonium nitrate, which is "just enough" ammonium.

    I disagree with using such low levels of nitrate in flowering. "why would you use such a high level of nitrates in flowering?". Easy... Faster growth, higher yields, and better overall health.

    I agree that murate of potash (KCl) is something you don't need in your salt collection. You should have potassium nitrate instead.
     
  12.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    I like the calcium nitrate + "rest of the mix" formulas because it encourages people to get their own supply of calcium nitrate, MKP, magnesium sulfate, etc which are the first natural steps toward DIY nutes. Over time people could add potassium nitrate, manganese sulfate, and iron DTPA, sodium borate, and sodium molybdenum to their collection, which would allow them to dial in any way they want.

    The problem is that certain people seem to be challenged with chemistry, uninterested, or insist on explaining how it's too complicated (despite not having experience or knowing what they're talking about), and these people are better off just getting an A+B mix of liquid nutes where each bottle is added in equal amounts..
     
  13.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    And doesnt a nitrogen toxicity in veg delay flowering in flower. Wouldnt excess nitrogen in flower mess with my buds.

    I learned to try to not use nitrogen in flower. I always cut out as much as I can right after week two of flower, doesnt the plant accumulate all or most of the nitrogen it needs in veg.
    I have grown this strain out for a couple of years the buds do look small compared to the past grows at this stage. Definitely smaller, they look like the start of week three in the past and I am in the middle of week four.

    They are about 850 - 950 ppms on he 500 scale, I dont think im under feeding them. I bought new bulbs for this grow, environment is on point.

    I do have a new deficiency thats new to me, there is bronzing on the leaves in the middle of the plant, not going to worry about it to much as the rest of the plant looks ok except for the serrated leaf edges turning up.
     
  14.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    Ok thanks for the reply I.ll do your formula nest water change, but at 2 grams of mix per gallon puts me at a very low ppm, probably only about 700 ppm. The last water change I used about 3.25 grams of mix per gallon, which with everything else {just those items you listed or that is in the feeding chart} put me about a 1.9-2.0 ec. thats what im shooting for. So am I over feeding them?
     
  15.  
    churchhaze

    churchhaze Well-Known Member

    Toxicity of anything will cause problems.

    When did anyone say you should be using excess nitrogen? That's such an annoying way to word your question...

    This is misguided. Your plant needs nitrogen more than any other element.

    NO! HELL NO!
     
    im4satori likes this.
  16.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    in my opinion

    theres never any reason to feed over EC1.5 regardless of medium or grow style ... provided your nutes are balanced
    yes theres lots of guys who push the limits but your asking for trouble unless you've got a long history with a single strain and understand its max limits

    most strains wont handle the high EC feeds as well but some will tolerate it

    the numbers I gave you should set you around EC 1.5 +/-
    maybe slightly lower

    but you should be pretty close to spot on with the amounts I provided... what your using now is tooo much
     
  17.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    When did anyone say you should be using excess nitrogen? Such an annoying way to word your question...
    I didnt say that anybody told me to.

    On the other quote I guess Harley Smith is wrong.
     
  18.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member


    Right on an ec of 1.5 is only 750 ppm. Doesnt seem like very much my seedling get 350 ppm 0.7 ec.

    thanks for the reply ill mix up your fomula to see what it actually comes to but it just sonds like its going to be a very low ppm for what I am used to.
     
  19.  
    Bernie420

    Bernie420 Well-Known Member

    strain is gg#4 on this flower run
     
  20.  
    im4satori

    im4satori Well-Known Member

    try the mix as I suggested regardless of the ppm/EC

    are you certain your ppm meter is on the 5 scale and not the 7??

    I run my set up at EC1.3 but im in RW dtw

    if your nutes are balanced youll find a lower EC works better and has less likely issues

    theyre are some plants (very few imho) that do just fine at EC as high as your feeding but just because they'll tolerate it doesn't mean they prefer it

    whats your medium and grow style again?
     

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