Best NPK Ratio for Veg and Flower

Figong

Well-Known Member
This product interested me since i've heard that MJ is an acid loving plant.
If by acidic, you mean -slightly- acidic, then yes.. that holds true for soil. Don't spike it with a pH similar to what's required for azaleas/rhododendron or you will watch your cannabis crops die very quickly without massive recovery effort. All I really have to contribute on the acidic discussion.
 
@uncle ben - This isn't the only website dedicated to cannabis growth. Their are many, MANY free sources on the web specifically for cannabis growth, and i have read a few. If i can't find my answer here i'm not gonna buy a book on it. I simply hope i can get some fairly straight answers here, but if not, i'll look everywhere else. The last thing i need to do is purchase a book, wait a week to get it, then read it over the next month while buying the supplies. I am looking at beginning my first grow sometime at the start of april and i have absolutely everything down except for nutes.

I will look into those sites you suggested, but i already know MJ is not like tomatos. I've already been told that miracle gro tomato plant food 18-18-21 will have to be given to the plant in VERY small doses, and i'm afraid if i go that route i'll get many calcium, magnesium, and other trace element deficiencies that i really don't want to deal with. If i get deficiencies, i'm shooting for nitrogen or potassium. I'll be having an X-0-X nute on hand to take care of those. But i certainly don't want a huge salt buildup from using some overpowered nutrient as a fix for a deficiency.

@Figong - Thanks for the info, and in a future experiment if i try that product i'll probably start at a 5 or 10% mixture of it into the soil.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
@uncle ben - This isn't the only website dedicated to cannabis growth. Their are many, MANY free sources on the web specifically for cannabis growth, and i have read a few. If i can't find my answer here i'm not gonna buy a book on it. I simply hope i can get some fairly straight answers here, but if not, i'll look everywhere else. The last thing i need to do is purchase a book, wait a week to get it, then read it over the next month while buying the supplies. I am looking at beginning my first grow sometime at the start of april and i have absolutely everything down except for nutes.

I will look into those sites you suggested, but i already know MJ is not like tomatos. I've already been told that miracle gro tomato plant food 18-18-21 will have to be given to the plant in VERY small doses, and i'm afraid if i go that route i'll get many calcium, magnesium, and other trace element deficiencies that i really don't want to deal with. If i get deficiencies, i'm shooting for nitrogen or potassium. I'll be having an X-0-X nute on hand to take care of those. But i certainly don't want a huge salt buildup from using some overpowered nutrient as a fix for a deficiency.

@Figong - Thanks for the info, and in a future experiment if i try that product i'll probably start at a 5 or 10% mixture of it into the soil.
Good luck. You're gonna need it.
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
Hello Waiakeauka. I'm not sure if this will help you or not but i found this on another website and it made sense to me -
Cannabis requires a 1:2 ratio of P to K throughout all stages of it's growth.

It's worth stating for the record the actual ratios of N, P and K that cannabis requires through it's life cycle:

Vegetative Stage
N - P - K
3 - 1 - 2

Flowering Stage
N - P - K
1 - 1 - 2

Final Flowering Stage
N - P - K
0 - 1 - 2

To translate this into a 12 week schedule for a typical Skunk type such as Cheese or Psychosis would give something along these lines:

Veg week 1: 3 - 1 - 2
Veg week 2: 3 - 1 - 2
Flo week 1 : 3 - 1 - 2
Flo week 2 : 3 - 1 - 2
Flo week 3 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 4 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 5 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 6 : 1 - 1 - 2
Flo week 7 : 0 - 1 - 2
Flo week 8 : 0 - 1 - 2
Flo week 9 : 0 - 0 - 0
Flo week 10: 0 - 0 - 0

This schedule reduces the Nitrogen two weeks into the 12/12 period which will assist in stopping the vertical growth (stretch). It cuts out all Nitrogen after 6 weeks which will result in a less leafy, smoother burning end product with greater density to the flowers. The last two weeks of plain water is sufficient to leach out all accumulated salts and give a clean end product. Three week flush as advocated by some really isn't necessary if the Nitrogen is cut out after 6 weeks. The people using a three week flush tend to use Canna nutes which have too much N in them for late flowering and this is why they get a benefit from flushing for three weeks.

Hope that makes sense. Despite all the crap the nute companies fill our heads with about the need for all kinds of fancy bottles, you really don't need any of them. Cannabis is a simple plant, a weed in fact, and all it needs is the correct NPK at the correct time plus a full range of trace elements, that is hard fact and no amount of BS an marketing from the nute companies will ever change that fact.

Anyway :-) Hope this helps you a little bit ? Good luck and Happy Growing :-)
it is P that exacerbates stretch not N ...pre harvest flushing is botanically unsound and detrimental not beneficial to the fermenting, or "curing" of the final product
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
major newbie question since i'm about to get into my first grow...

I see some people use jacks classic 20-20-20.. i tend to presume by volume that 20% is nitrogen-same-same and the leftover 40% is random other stuff like calcium.

then i see some people use 2-1-6 floragrow for veg and switch to something with equally small numbers. 2% vs 20% by volume sounds rediculous and i wonder how people don't burn MJ using jacks.

I understand ratio's, but when i'm supposed to be feeding at "full strength" at week 4 or 5.. full strength could be overkill with jacks classic and underfeeding with flora-bloom (as this is flowering at this point).

Since i don't have neither product on-hand, i don't already know that recommended dose of jacks is 1 tbsp to 1 gallon and flora-grow is 5 tbsp to 1 gallon at full strength late in growth(i may be way off, but is only example). If this is the case, then with a simple percentage given to start at i will be able to deduce how much of any fert to use during any period of MJ's growth. to explain, 3%N-1-2 would be full strength of floragrow at week 1 but if i'm using jacks classic, 3% would be 1/7th it's recommended dosage to start with.

http://www.amazon.com/Espoma-HT8-Holly-Tone-4-3-4-Pounds/dp/B001R4P120/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1363002999&sr=8-7&keywords=espoma+fertilizer

This product interested me since i've heard that MJ is an acid loving plant. I will want to stick with water soluble until a few grows and i'm ready to experiment, but this is something i will probably try when i know what i'm doing and can understand MJ's needs. Also, I do understand each strain is different, but a basic guide or starting point will be great.
first off jacks is dry...not liquid...so you're not paying for water...second the other 40% are inert carriers to keep you from frying your plants...the nutes with the lower %'s are liquid not dry so the water further dilutes it...wht's important is the ratio not the actual %'s...20-20-20= 1-1-1 9-3-6=3-1-2 and you can grow from beginning to end with 1-1-1 and do great
 

Kite High

Well-Known Member
@uncle ben - This isn't the only website dedicated to cannabis growth. Their are many, MANY free sources on the web specifically for cannabis growth, and i have read a few. If i can't find my answer here i'm not gonna buy a book on it. I simply hope i can get some fairly straight answers here, but if not, i'll look everywhere else. The last thing i need to do is purchase a book, wait a week to get it, then read it over the next month while buying the supplies. I am looking at beginning my first grow sometime at the start of april and i have absolutely everything down except for nutes.

I will look into those sites you suggested, but i already know MJ is not like tomatos. I've already been told that miracle gro tomato plant food 18-18-21 will have to be given to the plant in VERY small doses, and i'm afraid if i go that route i'll get many calcium, magnesium, and other trace element deficiencies that i really don't want to deal with. If i get deficiencies, i'm shooting for nitrogen or potassium. I'll be having an X-0-X nute on hand to take care of those. But i certainly don't want a huge salt buildup from using some overpowered nutrient as a fix for a deficiency.

@Figong - Thanks for the info, and in a future experiment if i try that product i'll probably start at a 5 or 10% mixture of it into the soil.
ok you are another one that already thinks he knows too much

READ THE PLANTS not hype

and since you do not want to spend money on the book and wait for it to come in here it is in a pdf for immediate download for free

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQFjAB&url=https://mycotopia.net/forums/attachments/lifestyles/29037d1152189893-online-library-share-your-favorite-books-us-s-guide.pdf&ei=GuFAUfeaJsiFrgHL9IHQDA&usg=AFQjCNFxuNyiWq1EZO6EFvVwVmNskPQPtQ&bvm=bv.43287494,d.aWM

so read it and learn
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
ok you are another one that already thinks he knows too much

READ THE PLANTS not hype

and since you do not want to spend money on the book and wait for it to come in here it is in a pdf for immediate download for free

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDsQFjAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fmycotopia.net%2Fforums%2Fattachments%2Flifestyles%2F29037d1152189893-online-library-share-your-favorite-books-us-s-guide.pdf&ei=GuFAUfeaJsiFrgHL9IHQDA&usg=AFQjCNFxuNyiWq1EZO6EFvVwVmNskPQPtQ&bvm=bv.43287494,d.aWM

so read it and learn
What if my plant is shaped like the letter K, what am I to read from that? :P hahahaha
 
hay all,just putting my first crop in to there 12/12 cycle,bin using a×b through the veg stage,an not sure about the pk and when to use it.anyone help me on this
 

WattSaver

Well-Known Member
If any of the experts knew for sure what the best combo was then you would go to the hydro store and you'd see everything with the same ratio. But if you haven't noticed there are so many NPK ratios available all supposedly specially designed for cannabis.

Myself I believe in the 1-1-1 or a heavier N all the way through. Osmocote is real boring to use, but grows great plants.
 

Figong

Well-Known Member
If any of the experts knew for sure what the best combo was then you would go to the hydro store and you'd see everything with the same ratio. But if you haven't noticed there are so many NPK ratios available all supposedly specially designed for cannabis.

Myself I believe in the 1-1-1 or a heavier N all the way through. Osmocote is real boring to use, but grows great plants.
Agreed on this, there will never be a 'this is the best' combo as every strain can/will react differently, and you can find strains that mow down on K and ignore 1/2 of the P put in during flowering, or love twice the amount of N as everything else. At the end of the day, cannabis is not an 'extremely difficult' plant to grow, but she will go from 'nice' to 'psychobitch' if not treated properly.
 

jabolo

Active Member
Hi,

I'm using mixed soil (couldn't get hold of neutral soil only without any ferts added) which states:

Soil - Sand - Compost

Fert: 13-13-20-2

I understand that the 13 13 20 2 means 13% N 13% P and 20% K and then 2% of something else like Ca or Mg.

My question is: Can I used this soil to grow my plants?

If yes, how to I go about buying the nutes for Veg and/or Flower?

Bearing in mind that the country where I am sells most stuff with French labels (which I can read but which don't use the same terminology as the English-speaking websites I consult).

Therefore my plan is to just look at the ratio (13 13 20 etc...) to buy the nutes. And there's no BnQ or huge selection from supermarket, and barely any specialized garden shops. I miss England.... :'(

If I could use one fertilizer throughout the grow, that'd be simple and the best solution given the difficulty in getting the right ferts here.

Thanks in adv!

Peace in the leaf,

J.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
That soil sounds fine. You'll know by how it looks and feels and then how it drains AND holds moisture. A balanced food like a 1-1-1 will get you where you need to go.
 

azryda420

Active Member
funny how everyone thinks their right.

I can only agree to go for maximu foliage production. Whatever makes that happen. Roll with it.
 

Dboi87

Well-Known Member
Ok well here is my question. We now have a general base ratio of 1-1-1 and another of 3-1-2. Now when I have my nutrients mixed in the right ratio how much of this mixture/solution should I use? How can I tell when I'm under or over feeding? Or if the genetics of my plant calls for more or less of n, p, or k?

I know you guys see questions like this all the time so I'm sorry but for someone diving in headfirst with no prior knowledge or experience it can be more than you thought you were getting into. I wish I had read uncle bens post about that book earlier but I never expected it to be so hard. Plant a seed and months later you have top notch bud! Lol I have so much to learn I've realized. ...
 

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
For this grow you were very knowledgeable about dyna-gro and had no idea about advanced im guessing. second you only used connisuer and didn't get the full benefits of using at least a few of their highly recommended additives. Third your experiment didn't look very controlled. you compared nutrients using the same grow tray? Fourth you went into the experiment already thinking advanced nutrients sucked. Fifth your light is pretty damn far away from the plants. You might be able to pump up your nutes if you had more light going to your crop. the more light, more co2, the more nutes.

To me this experiment was sort of biased. you claimed dyna-gro was better even though the experiment had not yet finished.

Were you following the manufacturers feeding schedules or your own? It you were not I wouldn't technically call the experiment dyna-gro vs. advanced nutrients.

I prolly hate advanced nutrients just as much as you do because they overcharge and overhype their products with ridiculous names, but one experiment with plants in 6" rockwool cubes isn't gonna cut it for me.

Advanced is really 'Advanced'.

This one of the good controlled experiments, but they guy went into it liking earth juice like you did dyna-gro. In this experiment he claimed dyna-gro was actually the worst of the 8 nutrient lines he tested. All the info is in one spot. I wish i could read your whole 80 page forum post,but that would prolly take a couple days.
http://www.420magazine.com/forums/indoor-soil-cultivation/114640-top-nutrient-study-best-produces-most.html
I was thinking the same with his DG vs. gen. Hydro. Trying to say GH had ph fluctuations more so than DG, well it's the other way around in my experience. GH is stable in these reservoirs and this water.
 

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
Treat it as it is - nothing more than a flowering tropical annual.

UB
Correction there Uncle Ben. As far as history can pin down, Mari jane originates from the cold mountainous regions of Asia i.e. Afghanistan and Himalaya regions then traveled the world with the mystics and elites(kind of the same way tobacco would).

It has been in tropical areas long enough to adapt and evolve into tropical landraces. Though I believe there is debate on whether it also originated in South america, but I can't remember where or when I heard the South American rumor.

Either way You had the rest right.

I typically do not try to talk sense to people on these forums once they get judgmental. Many are to young and hard headed to accept knowledge is a gift people share with one another, not something to argue over. Hell just the topic of flushing plants gets people calling each other names when it is simply a matter of preference.
A lot of frustrated people out there just wanting to release pent-up aggression. Cheers.
 

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
No argument there. I certainly do not mean to offend just that each persons experiences are different, the ph fluctuations were not the fertilizers fault. And I in no way was trying to defend the guy repping AN whom's quote I referred to, you're GH vs DG just seemed bias,IMO. Again no hard feelings, cheers.
 
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