Beat Thermal Imaging

RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Since the other post got cluttered up pretty fast I'm going to fill you guys in on how to block thermal imaging.

Home Depot and Lowes both sell a few products lined with aluminum foil which blocks the radiant heat detected by the TI technology.

One is called Reflectix which looks like a roll of bubble wrap with aluminum foil on it. It claims 97% block of radiant heat and after covering some windows to block unwanted sunlight I assure you it does what it claims.

There are also 4X8 foam boards with aluminum on one side. Much less expensive but more difficult to get into tight spaces.

Also, the TI can't see through a hot roof so if you grow during the day in the summer you are golden. In the winter I would line the entire room with Reflectix or at least the ceiling if you are doing a basement grow.

Anyway, that's the deal. You can read more on radiant heat on Wikipedia or try Googling Reflectix.

Added bonus! Installing Reflectix qualifies for up to a $1,500 tax rebate too! Now if that doesn't put a smile on your face....
 
TeaTreeOil

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
Thermal imaging looks for heat escaping. It's mainly based on convection.

Unless you directly vent heat outside, where it's detectable, there's nothing to worry about as far as FLIR imaging.

It's pretty well known aluminum blocks/reflects 97% of radiance... except to stoners. :lol:
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Thermal Imaging looks for radiant heat which is entierly different from heat convection. That is why they can fly over head and see every heat source in your house as if the roof and walls don't exist. There is a video on the internet somewhere that shows a guy running from the cops and they were tracking him with TI. He ran behind some guys house and you could actually see the guy get up, walk across the room and mess with the TV and then sit back down. Then you see the guy in the back yard put a shotgun in his mouth and brains splatter all over. So basically if you are boning your wife and they fly over head they can see everything including the money shot.

But ya, the Reflectix while expensive will block it. That's what the grow tents are made of.

An odd thing, if you have a HID with an aluminum reflector put your hand under it than on top of it. The top of the hood 1" from the HID will be luke warm at best. HIDs give loads of radiant heat and the aluminum just stops it cold. Try that with a steel reflector and it will burn you.
 
TeaTreeOil

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
Anything above absolute zero radiates(even 'air')... I meant the means of whatever is being warmed is done so by convection. They're mostly looking for escaping heat(in the form of hot air).

They can't not see through the walls or roof of a house. FLIR cameras can barely see through clear glass.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
strangerdude562 said:
Here is FLIR at it's best, watch the entire video to see how well it works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMwholkV-A
Click to expand...

HA! That's the exact same video I posted on the OP's other thread (the one that got "cluttered up", mostly with people telling him that FLIR can't see through JACK). Of course he still insists you can see through the roofs in this video. If that's the case, then I guess noone in the neighborhood is home, or else wouldn't we be seeing them through those roofs?
 
smppro

smppro

Well-Known Member
FLIR mainly looked for differences in temperature between the ambient temp of the house and the heat of the air escaping from your grow, that why people run them out chimney and dryer exhausts.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
strangerdude562 said:
Here is FLIR at it's best, watch the entire video to see how well it works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAMwholkV-A
Click to expand...

Guys, watch that video again only do not look at the chase at all. Focus intently on the roofs as the chopper flies over. In the last house there will be times when you can clearly see EVERYTHING in the house! The key is you have to focus your attention carefuly on the roofs of the houses and ignore the police activity. If you do watch carefully you can see the interior lighting and what appears even to be people inside the houses. Now imaine what a 1000W HID would look like.

If you do this and you still can't see inside the house maybe your monitor setting are messed up or something because I can see through the roofs plain as day.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Okay Rick, so if you can "clearly" see things through the roofs in this video.. then please explain to me why the FLIR is unable to pick up the "heat signatures" of the officers on the ground when the building is between them and the helicopter. There are several instances where the officers are hiding at the corner of the house, and the helicopter CANNOT SEE THEM. They aren't even IN the building, they're OUTSIDE OF IT, and the helicopter can't see them.

So again, please explain to me how the FLIR can see people and things INSIDE the house when it clearly can't even see the officers OUTSIDE the house in some instances.
 
TeaTreeOil

TeaTreeOil

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
Guys, watch that video again only do not look at the chase at all. Focus intently on the roofs as the chopper flies over. In the last house there will be times when you can clearly see EVERYTHING in the house! The key is you have to focus your attention carefuly on the roofs of the houses and ignore the police activity. If you do watch carefully you can see the interior lighting and what appears even to be people inside the houses. Now imaine what a 1000W HID would look like.

If you do this and you still can't see inside the house maybe your monitor setting are messed up or something because I can see through the roofs plain as day.
Click to expand...
Please supply the time stamps of the instances. I was doing what you just said, the roofs appear to always be solid pitch black. There does seem to be a sky light(window on the roof) on the house he finally shoots himself at(the large grey rectangle on the roof).

Glass is nowhere as good of an insulator as wood and shingles.

Those bright points on roofs are likely vents/chimneys. Much too small to be anything else. They are also static. Like vents -they don't move. See here: http://roofvents.com/ Most roofs have several of these, especially in warmer climates.

Note: 1:00, you can not even see through the tree's foliage.
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
I'd imagine a great deal of it has to do with how they focus the insturment. There are a number of time in that video when you can see into the houses. At one point the chopper zooms in and you can watch the black roof go clear and see inside. Plus, from the time the guy shoots himself foreward you can plainly see a number of heat signatures through the roofs. In fact as the chopper spins you get a view inside two houses.

I don't know about you guys but from that video I can clearly see heat signatures in the house. I can only imagine you aren't seeing it because you don't want to or because you are not staying focused on the roofs.
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
I'd imagine a great deal of it has to do with how they focus the insturment. There are a number of time in that video when you can see into the houses. At one point the chopper zooms in and you can watch the black roof go clear and see inside. Plus, from the time the guy shoots himself foreward you can plainly see a number of heat signatures through the roofs. In fact as the chopper spins you get a view inside two houses.

I don't know about you guys but from that video I can clearly see heat signatures in the house. I can only imagine you aren't seeing it because you don't want to or because you are not staying focused on the roofs.
Click to expand...

If you'd quit focusing on the roofs, then you'd "clearly" be able to see how the IR can't even pick up the "signatures" of people OUTSIDE when they're behind the house, obscured by trees, etc.

Here are some quotes about thermal imaging.

From:
http://www.prtech-thermalimaging.com/products/infrared_in_action/fact_fiction.htm

Can thermal imaging cameras see through exterior walls into houses?
No. These cameras only “see” heat as it radiates off of an object. It may “see” the heat coming from a house, but it can’t see into the house because the camera picks up the house’s exterior thermal image first. In fact, the thermal imaging doesn’t even see through glass because the glass has its own thermal profile.

From: http://www.advhi.com/thermal-imaging.asp

The infrared thermal imaging camera is NOT an X-ray vision scope. It does not provide the user ability to see through walls. Instead, it identifies thermal differences on a wall’s surface.

From: http://findaleak.co.nz/infrared-thermal-imaging-glue-holding-gib-to-brick-wall.html

A thermal imaging camera does not see through walls, nor does it detect moisture.

From: http://www.tgorski.com/news_analysis/drug_war_uses_thermal_imaging_technology_to_probe_private_homes_010615.htm

[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]While the imager cannot see through walls, it can detect hot spots, and in this case disclosed that part of the roof and a side wall were warmer than the rest of the building and the neighboring houses.[/FONT]

From: http://inspectitneil.com/thermal-imagaing/thermal-imagaing.html

Can you see through walls?
Simply put... No. What we can see are the temperature differences that transfer through or occur at the surface of an object.




 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Evidently you didn't read your own links.


"Above is thermal FLIR infrared picture of a building. The human eye would see nothing but total darkness. Note the body heat signatures of a row of people on the bottom level in the center of the building. Devices similar to this have been used to examine private homes without a search warrant. Supreme Court decision has now stopped that practice."

It is correct to say that FLIR can not "see" though walls. Don't confuse this with the ability to detect a heat signature through walls which is what is stated in the links you provided. Try reading your own links a little more carefully.

Also, I just showed 3 people that video and all 3 said they could clearly see heat signatures of things inside the houses. Preumably, none of these things give off anywhere near as much radiant heat as HID lighting. But it's up to you. If you guys choose to believe they can't detect the heat from your grow op and are to cheap to buy a few rolls of Reflectix to ensure your freedom that is your choice.

Still, you have to wonder why the Supreme Court would require a warrant to use the technology if it's so useless. But like I said, you do what you like. For those who wish to take the preventative measure, Relfectix is how you do it.

 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
Just to reitterate - this is from your link.

The drug warriors are continually searching for more intrusive ways to stamp out the use of illegal drugs in this country. One of the potentially most intrusive is the use of thermal imaging technology that is capable of detecting patterns of heat coming from private homes. Recently various generations of this technology have been deployed by police to search for in home marijuana cultivation by detecting the heat emitted from growing lamps. The most widely used technologies detect patterns of heat escaping from the surfaces of homes and cannot detect details of occupants movements. The more sophisticated technology is capable imaging the bodies in the house and tracking their movements by detecting their heat signatures. Thermal imaging technology has been deployed from ground vehicles and from low flying helicopters.
On June 11, 2001 the Supreme Court validated the constitutionally guaranteed right to privacy by ruling that the use of thermal imaging technology and any similar future surveillance technologies requires a search warrant. Read about the details in the article below.

Justice Scalia said that to take any other approach "would leave the homeowner at the mercy of advancing technology — including imaging technology that could discern all human activity in the home."

http://www.tgorski.com/news_analysis/drug_war_uses_thermal_imaging_technology_to_probe_private_homes_010615.htm#Drug War Uses Thermal Imaging Technology To Probe Private Homes
 
doobnVA

doobnVA

Well-Known Member
Look at the "row of people" a little closer. They are OUTSIDE, walking across the foot bridge (there are 2 footbridges in the image). Notice how you CAN'T see the lower halfs of their bodies, because they are obscured by the side railings of the bridge.

In the second picture, I've given them some stick legs where their legs are.
 

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hippiepudz024

hippiepudz024

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
Thermal Imaging looks for radiant heat which is entierly different from heat convection. That is why they can fly over head and see every heat source in your house as if the roof and walls don't exist. There is a video on the internet somewhere that shows a guy running from the cops and they were tracking him with TI. He ran behind some guys house and you could actually see the guy get up, walk across the room and mess with the TV and then sit back down. Then you see the guy in the back yard put a shotgun in his mouth and brains splatter all over. So basically if you are boning your wife and they fly over head they can see everything including the money shot.

But ya, the Reflectix while expensive will block it. That's what the grow tents are made of.

An odd thing, if you have a HID with an aluminum reflector put your hand under it than on top of it. The top of the hood 1" from the HID will be luke warm at best. HIDs give loads of radiant heat and the aluminum just stops it cold. Try that with a steel reflector and it will burn you.
Click to expand...

Ur actually wrong about the police being able to read through ur house and get the money shot, JUST LISTEN TO SIMPSONSAMPSON in this thread, he really does know what he talking about
https://www.rollitup.org/general-marijuana-growing/217425-how-police-ir-helicopter-functions.html
 
RickWhite

RickWhite

Well-Known Member
You know what - fuck it. You guys are right. The fact that people have been busted this way means nothing. Keep doing what you are doing and assume that no newer, more sophisticated technology exists than what you are looking at and that the older cruder FLIR systems are the only ones out there. You'll have some thing to piss and moan about when you are in prison.
 
hippiepudz024

hippiepudz024

Well-Known Member
RickWhite said:
You know what - fuck it. You guys are right. The fact that people have been busted this way means nothing. Keep doing what you are doing and assume that no newer, more sophisticated technology exists than what you are looking at and that the older cruder FLIR systems are the only ones out there. You'll have some thing to piss and moan about when you are in prison.
Click to expand...

ooooo that's harsh bro, i would never wish on anybody to get caught growing
 
hippiepudz024

hippiepudz024

Well-Known Member
In that video those neighbors had to of heard someone blow their head off with a shotgun outside, but maybe they decided it was a better idea to sit there as a family and watch a shamwow commercial, No i can pretty much bet that little white specs on the rooftops are just vents going out the top of the house
 
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