automatic ph adjuster

diamondminer · Jan 18, 2011

hey guys i was wondering if anyone had any experiance with automatic ph adjusters (controller and doser) . im looking to purchase one, i know they can be expensive but i want to know if anybody is using them, and if so which one and what is your experience with them?????

homebrewer · Jan 18, 2011

You know what is easier than buying a product that adjusts your pH? Using a line of nutes that has rock solid pH stability. I'd recommend DynaGro.

Clown Baby · Jan 19, 2011

Foxfarm also has a pretty stable pH.

When I first started hydro I didnt have a pH meter for the first 2 or 3 grows. Still got some chronic buds. Foxfarm was taking care of business for me

diamondminer · Jan 19, 2011

even if you have good nutes as the plant takes up the nutes ph will change. im looking for a monitor because i will not always be by plants if i have to leave for 2 - 3 days. so thats why I am asking. ANYONE??

Auzzie07 · Jan 19, 2011

Can you provide a link to a couple options? I've never even heard of those things.

homebrewer · Jan 19, 2011

diamondminer said:
even if you have good nutes as the plant takes up the nutes ph will change. im looking for a monitor because i will not always be by plants if i have to leave for 2 - 3 days. so thats why I am asking. ANYONE??

But my point is that they will take up water as well as nutes and when using a pH-stable nute brand, pH adjustments become a thing of the past. If you're looking for a fancy gadget, I'm sorry, I can't help you there. Good luck!

poindexterous · Jan 20, 2011

diamondminer said:
even if you have good nutes as the plant takes up the nutes ph will change. im looking for a monitor because i will not always be by plants if i have to leave for 2 - 3 days. so thats why I am asking. ANYONE??

I researched pH controllers and bought what I think is the best one, it's a Reef Fanatic sold at Aquacave http://www.aquacave.com/detail.aspx?ID=1902 .The Aqua Medic controllers are good but way more expensive, although I do use their dosing pumps to deliver the pH adjust solution which are great. Only Milwaukee makes a cheaper controller but it's way short on features. Here's a link to all their controllers http://www.aquacave.com/ComputersControllers.aspx

Also most of these controllers just have one output so they can be set to either add up or down but not both, so you'd need two controllers or maybe one of the expensive ones has two outputs, I never researched that since my pH only drops so I just need to add pH raise.

When my plants are in veg I hardly need to adjust pH, it's when they are blooming and gaining weight fast that the plants acidify my nutrient solution FAST. My pH will drop from 6.0 to 4.0 in 24 hours if I don't dose it with pH raise often and the controller is perfect for this. I don't know exactly why I see this pH drop but it only happens when the plants are doing great so don't mind. I wonder if the plants excrete acidic waste, or if they are just removing so much minerals by feeding that the pH drops? Anyone know?

homebrewer · Jan 20, 2011

poindexterous said:
When my plants are in veg I hardly need to adjust pH, it's when they are blooming and gaining weight fast that the plants acidify my nutrient solution FAST. My pH will drop from 6.0 to 4.0 in 24 hours if I don't dose it with pH raise often and the controller is perfect for this. I don't know exactly why I see this pH drop but it only happens when the plants are doing great so don't mind. I wonder if the plants excrete acidic waste, or if they are just removing so much minerals by feeding that the pH drops? Anyone know?

If you're pH is dropping that much, your plants are drinking more water than nutes which means you're probably overfeeding. What EC are you feeding at?

poindexterous · Jan 20, 2011

I'm using GH Flora's in filtered water at about 1500ppm. Think that may be too high? I don't get tip burn so I figured it was ok. What are other signs of overfeed?

homebrewer · Jan 20, 2011

poindexterous said:
I'm using GH Flora's in filtered water at about 1500ppm. Think that may be too high? I don't get tip burn so I figured it was ok. What are other signs of overfeed?

1500ppm is wicked high. I would dial that back to 1100-1200 as see how your pH is affected at that point.

EDIT: Do you know what scale your meter is reading on? There are a few of them: http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/debate_over_ec_and_tds.asp

I'm on the 442 scale or the .7 conversion and i flower one of my strains at 950 and the other at 1150. 1.5 EC is usually high enough for a lot of the strains out there.

shnkrmn · Jan 20, 2011

that's higher than I ever go. HB is likely correct that your plants are drinking more water than nutes.

Fox Farm's pH wobbles like Snooki at the beach in my experience.

poindexterous · Jan 20, 2011

homebrewer said:
1500ppm is wicked high. I would dial that back to 1100-1200 as see how your pH is affected at that point.

EDIT: Do you know what scale your meter is reading on? There are a few of them: http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/debate_over_ec_and_tds.asp

I'm on the 442 scale or the .7 conversion and i flower one of my strains at 950 and the other at 1150. 1.5 EC is usually high enough for a lot of the strains out there.

Yeah, I should try 1000ppm, it's too easy to get caught in the rational of wanting to feed them more, MORE.

As far as the .5 vs.7 conversion I've never been quite clear on which to use? I'm on the .5 now which means my ppm is even higher by that standard.

homebrewer · Jan 20, 2011

poindexterous said:
Yeah, I should try 1000ppm, it's too easy to get caught in the rational of wanting to feed them more, MORE.

As far as the .5 vs.7 conversion I've never been quite clear on which to use? I'm on the .5 now which means my ppm is even higher by that standard.

Whoa, you're on the .5 and feeding that high? I would leach your medium and start them at 750ppm on your scale (you may never need to increase that throughout flowering either). I think you'll find your plants will stay healthier longer and you'll probably yield more too.

YThor · Jan 20, 2011

poindexterous said:
When my plants are in veg I hardly need to adjust pH, it's when they are blooming and gaining weight fast that the plants acidify my nutrient solution FAST. My pH will drop from 6.0 to 4.0 in 24 hours if I don't dose it with pH raise often and the controller is perfect for this. I don't know exactly why I see this pH drop but it only happens when the plants are doing great so don't mind. I wonder if the plants excrete acidic waste, or if they are just removing so much minerals by feeding that the pH drops? Anyone know?

When in veg, your plants are sucking down nitrogen; removing nitrogen (from ammonium nitrate or potassium nitrate) doesn't shift the pH quite so much. In these forms (ammonium and nitrate), nitrogen isn't much of a buffer system.

Phosphates, on the other hand, are very good for forming buffers. Start removing that component of the buffer solution (the "P" in N-P-K), and the pH will go whack. Of course, what does one look for when putting plants into bloom? High phosphorus- the plants are pulling more phosphorus at that phase of their growth.

Out of curiosity, it would be interesting to see what happened if you were to add primarily phosphorus during the flowering phase. Anyway- my answer would be that it's your second theory: the plants are removing specific minerals, and those happen to be part of a buffer system that maintains the pH at a higher level.

Huel Perkins · Jan 20, 2011

homebrewer said:
You know what is easier than buying a product that adjusts your pH? Using a line of nutes that has rock solid pH stability. I'd recommend DynaGro.

A good friend of mine is using DynaGro in his DWC garden and is currently in ph hell! He adjusts him ph to 6.0 and within 1-2 days it drops down to the 4.5 range. This has been going on for 3 weeks straight now. He has been on the phone several times with DynaGro but can not seem to fugure out the problem... Any ideas?????

homebrewer · Jan 20, 2011

Huel Perkins said:
A good friend of mine is using DynaGro in his DWC garden and is currently in ph hell! He adjusts him ph to 6.0 and within 1-2 days it drops down to the 4.5 range. This has been going on for 3 weeks straight now. He has been on the phone several times with DynaGro but can not seem to fugure out the problem... Any ideas?????

Is he using protekt? What are his feeding levels? Does he have any infections or slime buildup in his res area? I've run DG nutes with and without organic additives as well as beneficial bacteria and have never had the issue that your friend is having. The only thing I can think of is that he has some sort of growth or he's overfeeding.

poindexterous · Jan 20, 2011

homebrewer said:
Whoa, you're on the .5 and feeding that high? I would leach your medium and start them at 750ppm on your scale (you may never need to increase that throughout flowering either). I think you'll find your plants will stay healthier longer and you'll probably yield more too.

Thanks for the perspective. I re-cal'd my TDS meters to the .7 std, and diluted my rez's to 1000ppm. I'm just in veg now but It'll be interesting to see the difference in bloom.

Huel Perkins · Jan 20, 2011

homebrewer said:
Is he using protekt? What are his feeding levels? Does he have any infections or slime buildup in his res area? I've run DG nutes with and without organic additives as well as beneficial bacteria and have never had the issue that your friend is having. The only thing I can think of is that he has some sort of growth or he's overfeeding.

Yes he's using Protekt, he's using the full DG line-up. He's using about 2/3 strength off the DG feeding chart. They don't show any signs of burn, he grows AK47 which i'm sure you know is a pretty heavy feeder. This is his 2nd frow using DG, same strain, no changes from his first grow using it except these new ph problems. I just recomended to him earlier that he start using H2O2 in case there is some bacteria or pathogens causing these problems. He's going out to buy H2O2 tomorrow...

homebrewer · Jan 20, 2011

poindexterous said:
Thanks for the perspective. I re-cal'd my TDS meters to the .7 std, and diluted my rez's to 1000ppm. I'm just in veg now but It'll be interesting to see the difference in bloom.

1000ppm is too much for veg, cut that in half.

Yes he's using Protekt, he's using the full DG line-up. He's using about 2/3 strength off the DG feeding chart. They don't show any signs of burn, he grows AK47 which i'm sure you know is a pretty heavy feeder. This is his 2nd frow using DG, same strain, no changes from his first grow using it except these new ph problems. I just recomended to him earlier that he start using H2O2 in case there is some bacteria or pathogens causing these problems. He's going out to buy H2O2 tomorrow...

My AK47 is not a heavy feeder, 1.3 EC or about 950ppm on the 442 scale. Try the h2o2 and find out exactly how much he's feeding.

poindexterous · Jan 20, 2011

homebrewer said:
1000ppm is too much for veg, cut that in half.

Really, just 500ppm for veg? Is that fairly standard? It sounds so low. Guess it would save nutrients. I've never gone that low before so I'll take your word and give it a shot

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