ATTENTION: Irish "Tomato" Growers!

LOL!!!!! Every fucking min i read yo post Pay...it just yelled out!!!! NARC NARC NARC!!!!!!!!!!!! no we dont wont to test yo soil!!!! Post a grow journal first damnit!!!! then maybe i might consider that.....otherwise...i know your a cop and im NOT gona get caught growing my illegal "Carrots"...or meeting you to get that so called soil!!!! Cops will jump and rape my ass....oooooooooo I DONT THINK SO!!!!!!!!

Yea... and when you get some results, post them back up here. I'm curious to see how it works out.

Droxster said:

LOL!!!!! Every fucking min i read yo post Pay...it just yelled out!!!! NARC NARC NARC!!!!!!!!!!!! no we dont wont to test yo soil!!!! Post a grow journal first damnit!!!! then maybe i might consider that.....otherwise...i know your a cop and im NOT gona get caught growing my illegal "Carrots"...or meeting you to get that so called soil!!!! Cops will jump and rape my ass....oooooooooo I DONT THINK SO!!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

I'm not a garda. I'm not a "narc".

But having said, I'm also not a smoker or a grower.

My background is in physics, so I'm more interested in soil structures on the microscopic scale. I won't be growing anything myself.... honestly, I couldn't keep a mould alive.

Similarly, any precautions any of my volunteers want to take regarding drop-off/delivery are fine by me... I don't want to meet anyone either.

Cuttings2Colas said:

Yea... and when you get some results, post them back up here. I'm curious to see how it works out.

Click to expand...

Here's a post I put up at the Cannabis.com forum (where I've also appealed for help but with less success):
**********************************

http://boards.cannabis.com/ireland/1...o-growers.html


No need for the email. I can answer that right here.

I don't use any "secret ingredients" per say, it's more a question of how the soil is processed.

I use three basic steps:

-Base
No mystery here I use a mixture of moss peat and regular soil, just milled for a uniform paticulate size.

-Substrate
Can't go into too much detail here (trade secret), but I use a predigested inert organic nutrient mix that doesn't cause nutrient burn. When processed properly, the major constituent of the nutrient mix also provides a miroscopic architecture for bacterial growth, which is the next step.

-Bacteria
Once the substrate has been properly processed and added to the soil mix I add a rhizobacteria culture which adsorbs to the bulk substrate material. Then I just brew the soil (under the right conditions: a warm photorestricted anaerobic environment) which promotes the growth of the rhizobacteria.

There you go... just one simple step followed by two tediously labour intensive and convoluted steps taking approximately two weeks.

No "secret ingredients".

This isn't new technology, but it seems few are aware of these processes.

For example, I've noticed on this and other weed-growing forums (lurked around for a few days before making this appeal) that no one seems to know anything about soil. Lots of discussion of the merits of various lighting protocols and nutrient mixes, but very little talk of soil engineering.


The evidence of this is the recurring problem of "nutrient burn". A problem that is very solvable.


True, excessive soluble chemical nutrients will always eventually cause nutrient burn, especially when growing a fast-maturing plant sensitive to such factors. But a proper pre-digested organic nutrient substrate added to the soil allows for optimum plant metabolism (rapid growth) without the need to resort to harsh soluble chemical nutrients.

This means plants grown in an engineered soil simply have access to more nutrients, whereas in a nutrient poor soil these chemicals have to be added, and the addition of such artificial nutrients adversely alters the soil chemistry.


That's why I want a comparative grow with identical protocols for my little experiment.

The level of excess nutrients required to cause nutrient burn in conjunction with my soil recipe will probably kill the batch of plants grown in regular soil alongside them (my soil has higher surface adsorption on the microscopic level).

**********************************

Hope that answers some of your questions or at least assuages the fears of the more suspicious responders to my posts.

Any volunteers can contact me directly:
paydirt at hush mail dot com

Thanks for your interest guys.


-PayDir

Just a quick bump for this thread.

For anyone keeping score: I'm now up to three volunteer growers (one from this forum, one from Cannabis.com and another via reference from an acquaintance).

When I get five volunteer growers I'm going to brew up the last of my ingredients (enough for approximately eleven plant bags) and divvy up the soil samples.


If anyone else has any further questions or if anyone else wants to apply for one of the last two (maybe three) places available, then please dont hesitate to post in this thread (or alternatively you can contact me directly via: paydirt at hush mail dot com)


Thanks again for all the input guys... any other questions anyone would like me to answer here?


-PayDirt

Okay guys...

Thanks for all the input.

I now have three intested growers who meet my requirements (competent regular growers willing to run a comparative grow according to my stipulations). That's six plant bags (3 x 2).

I also have another couple of growers who have expressed an interest and from whom I am awaiting proof of growing competence (crop/set-up pics and/or a link to a growlog).
That should be another three or four plant bags.

Then I also have another small grower (referred by an acquaintance)... who will probably take my last bag.


That's all eleven bags allocated.


Unless... unless, of course, one of the two unverified growers fails to prove their competence.

I'm going to give them a week... then those last four bags are up for grabs.

Anybody who wants to get on the alternate list just drop me an email with:
-your (rough) location
-evidence (as specified above) of your growin competence

...to: paydirt at hush mail dot com


I'll be mixing and milling the soil this weekend, and the brewing process (bacterial inoculation) should take 12 or 13 days.

I'll be able to deliver the samples the weeend of the 30th and 31st of May.



Thanks again guys,
-PayDirt

Update:

The soil is mixed and the brew is underway.


Anyone else interested?



-PayDirt

im interested... but i am lazy and probably wouldnt meet your "requirements".... but i'd surely give a sack of that soil a shot, tell you what i think about it

I would love to read a gogrow grow journal on that grow.

gogrow said:

im interested... but i am lazy and probably wouldnt meet your "requirements".... but i'd surely give a sack of that soil a shot, tell you what i think about it

Click to expand...

I still haven't heard back from one of my unverified growers (someone who volunteered but hasn't yet provided pics or a link to a growlog or such).

If I don't hear back by the end of this week then those two plant bags will be up for grabs. Just can't be bothered with timewasters.


Anyone who can verify their growing competence and is willing to follow the instructions (use identical protocols and report back results) can volunteer.

Is there anyone on this forum who could vouch for you "gogrow"? Do you have a growlog up? Do you live near Dublin?

Read back over the requirements, maybe you do qualify.


There are no "sacks" of my soil... it comes in very small plant bags which you sit into a container (in the bag) and fill in around it with your regular soil.

The plant bags are very small indeed, only containing a kilogram or two of my "paydirt" recipe soil (sufficient for one plant)... even at that the cost of the soil is 115 euro per bag (yes, one hundred and fifteen euros per bag, mostly due to the cost of processing the bacteria and the predigested nutrient substrate).

Not really a viable commercial product unless you were growing a money tree.


-PayDirt
PS: the soil will be ready the last weekend of May. I'll ask the volunteers to post their progress reports on the forum if people are interested.

I'll be updating this thread soon with the all the latest happenings in this little experiment, so watch this space.

-PayDirt

Okay guys, here's the long awaited update...




From the outset, it seems this whole experiment has been an exercise in futility. Literally everything went wrong.




When this thread petered out I had six growers interested in participating: five who made contact via the forums (www.RollItUp.org and www.Cannabis.com) and one introduced through an acquaintance. So I set about processing the bulk ingredients I had left over from last growing season; enough raw material for eleven plant grow bags.


Then the litany of woes began...


First: while processing the predigested organic substrate material I burnt out the motor on my milling machine... with only nine grow bags finished.


Second: of the five growers who expressed an interest (via the forums) in receiving samples of my soil, only three could provide the requisite evidence of their growing competence (ie: crop photos or grow-logs). So I was left with only nine plant bags, and only four qualified growers.


Third: of the three forum growers who expressed an interest, only two actually collected their samples. I won't name the grower who never got back to me with a preferred drop-off location... he knows who he is.







So, all in all, a total failure.


It's actually been so haphazard as to generate a sort of comedic appeal. Let me give you a few examples:


I supplied the soil in brown paper grow bags, so the growers could simply plant the entire bag in their regular soil, water their regular soil as usual and simply allow my “PayDirt” soil to slowly absorb the moisture it needs through the paper bag. However, the soil turned out to be so highly absorbent and soaked up so much water as to thoroughly saturate and disintegrate the paper bags... despite the fact that each paper bag was individually wrapped in plastic and then double wrapped in two thick plastic rubble sacks and all three sample deliveries were collected within 24 hours of being dropped off. The stuff is like a sponge.


The batch of sterilized worms I produced to provide aeration for the soil (always a good idea for any growers out there) were pilfered! I went to check on them one morning only to find a seagull in my garage greedily helping himself to the contents of my wormery. Now that it's been contaminated by a flying rodent I have to empty the wormery and start over.



Dropping off one of the samples in a public park in the middle of the night: torch in one hand, GPS in the other, backpack full of plastic wrapped soil bags... I inadvertently stumbled upon two young gay men in flagrante. Far from expressing any embarrassment, they seemed somewhat disappointed when I walked on instead of accepting their invitation to join in.






So, two bags each to a grower from Cannabis.com and another from RollItUp.org, two more bags to a friend of a friend, three bags still sitting in my garage unclaimed, a burned out milling machine, a sullied wormery and one homosxual proposition later... it's certainly been an experience.


I can't publish the results collected by my acquaintance grower as he could possibly be linked to me, but I'll endeavor to have the other two growers (who are known forum members) report their results in this thread.


I still have three bags left if anyone else is interested?






As usual, I'll happily answer any questions anyone might have.




Sincerely,
-PayDirt

That is truly one hell of a story!

wow weird sounds cool but also very shady...... I interested in this "super soil" persay. hmmm oh well scribed so I can see what it does......

Peace

PayDirt said:

Some good input guys, much appreciated thanks.

The friend who recommended I post this appeal on this sort of forum did indeed warn me that it would probably be viewed with wry suspicion. He commented that even interested amateur or semi-pro growers would decline for fear that this was some sort of elaborate police sting operation. Seems he was right.


But that's okay. This was a last ditch effort anyway (outdoor planting season is over).


I don't understand the sales pitch criticisms though... Im not looking to charge anyone.

Besides, at 115 euro per bag this isnt a viable mass market product to begin with. That's a hundred times more than you'd harvest growing actual tomatoes and more than you guys yield per plant even with your illicit crop (you'd need one bag per plant).

If I could market it, I'd go for those weird champion plant growers (best-in-show vegetables and bes-in-show roses etc), I know a few and they spare no expense to get a leg up on the competition (weirdos). Although my brother reckons there is a viable market in pharmaceutical botanics (growing exotic plants indoors for phytochemical research).


But yeah, I get the point... reading my post back to myself considering a strangers viewpoint it does seem a little suspicious. Sorry about that.

Maybe there is someone trustworthy/respected on the forum that you guys could nominate (assuming only Irish growers are responding) and I'll get a couple of bags to him/her?


-PayDirt

Click to expand...

Do you want to know where the attitude comes from? you just get done telling everyone you have developed a soil to grow, but can't grow anything? Ususally a botinist can. If you can't, what makes you think you know what to put into anything?

If you did a test grow last year, and stated you had no control, how can you make any statements as to what this will do to plant yeilds? and if never grown on pot, where does your eliquant "sales pitch" on bigger yeilds... blah blah.. 115 euros per bag.. blah.bliggity, blah.

In one sentence you discredit yourself and say you would have nothing in common with anyone on these forums. Ignorance isn't a sign of intelligence. I also happen to know several university profs that smoke shit that would spin your head. If you had a true desire to test your miracle grow soil, you would also want to do research on growing practices and potential yeilds from some of the grow journals posted and contact those "seasoned" growers. You would have nothing in common with any of these people because unlike you common sence = enlightenment and your narcy attempt to get people to contact you for free soil... "super soil"...
sounds like the america's dumbest criminal episode where they called a bunch of dudes who had warrants out for their arrest and told them they were selected to be in a movie.. they all showed up and were arrested.

good luck... try a vegitable forum.
(do they have those?)

i got a sample of this stuff, i didnt get arrested yet and my two early pearls in the greenhouse are lovin the stuff, waiting for buds(the real test)to compare the smoke with the normal
soil ones to see what the story is. im greatfull for the efforts of this man-i got some deadly free soil and im helpin him out!
@Cowell-dont be so quick to run your mouth, i dont see you breakin your bollox for random people.
il post pics soon

Thanks for the rebuttle "liblah", Ive been waiting for you to email me some results... glad to hear the plants took to the soil so well. Is there a noticeable size difference yet?


But to keep everything above board and honest, my other grower (a member on Cannabis.com) has had a stunting problem.

He's growing some of these specially bred auto-flowering miniature plants, but he didn't use any worms and the soil has concreted (formed a solid) which in turn has stifled the roots: stunting the plants. (The soil clumps very easily).

It's still early, and I've advised him to add worms and perhaps a little moss peat for aeration... so hopefully the plants can bounce back; but he's probably incurred some financial loss as a result of participating in this experiment.


Cowell has a point...

This whole thing does seem pretty shady, three growers have backed out already (understandably) without even collecting their samples (I have three bags left); the yield estimates are based on the percentage growth increase in regular plants seen with the first batch of this soil: I have no definitive data (yet); I'm not a botanist; I'm not even a gardener...

...but I never claimed to be.


To reiterate: my background is in physics. I'm not really even a soil expert. But I do know a little something about soil microstructure and how the provision of certain substrates supports higher levels of rhizobacteria.

That's all I've done here... added an absorbent substrate (derived from an inert organic nutrient) to a properly milled compost enriched with rhizobacterial cultures, then brewed up the mixture to allow the bacteria impregnate the substrate.


I'm not forcing anyone to participate, and all the growers now they're risking a failed grow... and there's no sales pitch involved: the soil is far too expensive (as I said: cost price 115 euros per plant bag) to be a commercial product... I'm hoping to develop it for the specialist or pharmacetical botannical markets. Not broke-ass dope smokers.


-PayDirt

Man if you where in the states you would have everyone of your growbags left bro. This certainly sounds like something the dea or fbi or someone like that would pull off.

Peace

i'll take 10 bags!!!!!

jact55 said:

i'll take 10 bags!!!!!

Click to expand...

...only competent growers who can provide pics or links to a grow-log.

Oh, and you've got to be somewhere near Dublin, I'm not driving all over this recession-ridden shithole to make deliveries.


-PayDirt

story lads!
heres a few of the sample and comparrison subjects.the PAYDIRT soil is covered with the tinfoil, admittingly one of the comparrisons isnt in a big pot-il sort it out dont worry.a good eye can see that the two subjects are void of any distinctive indica traits(mexican sativa) whereas the two either side display darker and broader leaves(Early pearl has india traits to allow for earlier flowering)
i have another mex sativa that will get sent to the greenhouse for toke comparrison reasons.mexican sativa in PayDirt soil is growing branches alot bigger than the pearl, could be genetics-could be the pots-could be the Paydirt.again the real test for me is going to be the bud dovelopment,smoke and crystal formations.