Are the Dead From the Minneapolis Bridge Collapse Victims of Conservative Ideology?

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted August 3, 2007.

After swallowing 30 years of small-government rhetoric, our infrastructure, once the pride of the developed world, is falling apart around us. We're reaping what we've sown.​

The tragic collapse this week of a stretch of I-35 spanning the Mississippi river in Minnesota was shocking but should come as no surprise. America's core infrastrucure has been falling apart in very visible ways during the past few years. It's a predictable outcome of the rise of "backlash" conservatism; we've swallowed 30 years of small-government rhetoric, and it's led us to a point in which our infrastructure, once the pride of the developed world, is falling apart around us. We're reaping what we've sown.

Minnesota's Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty, reacted to the disaster by calling a press conference and, with a steely determination worthy of Rudy Guiliani, lying to the American people. Pawlenty insisted that inspections in 2005 and 2006 had found no structural problems with the bridge. But the Minneapolis Star-Tribune reported that the bridge "was rated as 'structurally deficient' two years ago and possibly in need of replacement." The bridge was borderline -- with a 50 sufficiency rating; if a bridge scores less than 50, it needs to be replaced.

According to the Pioneer Press, the bridge's suspension system was supposed to receive extra attention with inspections every two years, but the last one had been performed in 2003.

The governor had every reason to obfuscate; in 2005, he vetoed a bipartisan transportation package that would have "put more than $8 billion into highways, city and county roads, and transit over the next decade." At the time, he was applauded by many Republicans for his staunch fiscal "conservatism."

It's too soon to say for sure what caused this latest disaster, but as Stephen Flynn wrote in Popular Mechanics, when all is said and done, "investigators will likely find that two factors contributed to its failure: age and heavy use." Those conditions are anything but isolated:

According to a report card released in 2005
by the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE), 160,570
bridges, or just over one-quarter of the nation's 590,750
bridge inventory, were rated structurally deficient or functionally obsolete.
The nation's bridges are being called upon to serve a population that
has grown from 200 million to over 300 million since the time the
first vehicles rolled across the I-35W bridge. Predictably
that has translated into lots more cars.​

It was the second U.S. bridge collapse this week -- a span in California fell the day before, with far fewer injuries and no loss of life. The tragedy occurred just weeks after an 80-year-old steam pipe in Manhattan blew up, killing one and injuring dozens more. A year earlier, a section of tunnel in Boston collapsed, killing a woman as she drove home. A year before that, hundreds of thousands of Americans became refugees after New Orleans' pitiable levees collapsed -- a graphic illustration of shortsighted public policy if ever there was one. The AFL-CIO estimates that more than one in four roads are in "less than good condition." Minnesota ranks low on their list, with about one in eight failing to make the grade.

It's all part of a larger picture. We have a crumbling power grid and are falling behind the rest of the world in broadband infrastructure. The American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) talks of "congested highways, overflowing sewers and corroding bridges" that are "constant reminders of the looming crisis that jeopardizes our nation's prosperity and our quality of life." Every year the engineering society issuesa report card grading 15 categories of America's once-premier infrastructure. In 2005, that "core" infrastructure collectively got a "D-," slightly worse than the "D" it received in 2000. Ironically, the nation's bridges received the highest score -- a "C" -- in 2005.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
Experts have been warning of our gradually disintegrating infrastructure for years. ASCE's engineers estimate that it would take an investment of $1.6 trillion over the next 10 years to bring it up to modern standards. That investment would create of tens of thousands of decent jobs and, most economists agree, would likely unleash a new wave of productivity growth. But just as Minnesota's Pawlenty vetoed an increase in that state's highway funds so he could play a fiscal conservative in TV commercials, the GOP-controlled Congress rejected a Democratic proposal in 2002 that would have increased highway funding by $4 billion in a straight party-line vote (because they couldn't stand the fact that the bill also called for a minimum wage increase and an extension of unemployment benefits -- ultimately, a pork-laden version with nothing for workers did pass in 2005). Governance, ultimately, is a matter of priorities, and infrastructure takes a back seat.

One of the primary reasons for that is that there aren't organized constituents lobbying for public goods like highways and bridges -- people take those things for granted. A thousand grifters have gained office promising to cut taxes as if they existed in a vacuum, without mentioning the cost; no politician has ever won office promising to keep highways from collapsing on their constituents. For 30 years, we've been told by a series of right-wing snake-oil salesmen that they could deliver more and better public services while constantly cutting the taxes that pay for them, but it was always a fraud. The result is that the United States enjoys the third-lowest tax burden among the 30 most advanced economies as its public spaces gradually come apart at the seams.

I would argue that skimping out on infrastructure investments in the name of a low tax burden is a triumph of ideology over commonsense, but it goes beyond that. Conservative philosophy stresses limited government, not bad government, and nothing can change the fact that the public sector remains the only way to organize collectively when there's no profit involved. So nobody seriously believes that the the hidden hand of capitalism is going to step in and inspect and repair bridges that are open to the public. When lawmakers don't fund that work, they know full well that it won't get done.

What's more, the evidence that infrastructure investments result in increased economic productivity is fairly conclusive; some studies have estimated that every dollar invested in public infrastructure yields 104 percent return through increases in productivity ( PDF ). So something more is going on. Stephen Flynn says, "Americans have been squandering the infrastructure legacy bequeathed to us by earlier generations. Like the spoiled offspring of well-off parents, we behave as though we have no idea what is required to sustain the quality of our daily lives."

Perhaps. And perhaps it has to do with American exceptionalism -- in every other country, citizens understand that their society is as good as they make it, while many of ours seem to believe that we're a leading nation according to some divine plan and no amount of bone-headed governance and skewed priorities can ever change that fact.

That's something to ponder as you drive over that bridge or through that tunnel on the way home.
 

pandabear

Well-Known Member
funny now they are blaming a bridge collapsing on bush too looooooooooooool

that so redicules, man george bush better go put on a hard hat and start inspecting the 500,000 or so bridges we have in the united states :mrgreen:

here give me a shovel I can shovel shit im people mouths too:mrgreen:
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
No you missed the Point...They are blaming it on Conservative Ideology.... It just proves to me that you have a short attention span and did not read the article.
 

420worshipper

Well-Known Member
The only thing I see wrong with it is that the reporter claims the governor vetoed the transportation bill. And that is wrong! He used a line item veto to remove parts from the Omnibus Transportation Bill Ch. 143 House File #562. What he did was remove part of the waste the democrats wanting to study long term effects of traffic in certain Minneapolis/St. Paul neighborhoods. He used a line item veto to remove that part on 5/29/2007 and then signed it on 5/30/2007. So, if he would have vetoed the entire bill, why was it signed by him on 5/30/2007?

2007 Legislation Content
 

pandabear

Well-Known Member
No you missed the Point...They are blaming it on Conservative Ideology.... It just proves to me that you have a short attention span and did not read the article.
i do have a short attention span and I did not read the article but everyone already knows that this is the sad new strategy that the leaders of the dems are pushing now, basically useing this terrible tradgety to incorrectly point the finger at the Republicans and I dont care what you say, its obvious they are trying to make Bush look bad as he is the head republican at the moment and you know it.

so although it may be true that I have a short attention span it is clear for all to see how you are trying to tiptoe around the true intention behind this "article" when it is plain as day what this really is.

so that being said I would like to encourage GW bush to go put his hard hat on and go inspect these bridges:mrgreen: so everyone will be happy:mrgreen:
 

iRAYone

Active Member
The real point is we need to stop playing around in other countries and spend our money here at Home. Infastructure, education, healthcare. etc. I see our system comming to an abrupt ending real soon...............Our country does not take care of its own people.
 

medicineman

New Member
The real point is we need to stop playing around in other countries and spend our money here at Home. Infastructure, education, healthcare. etc. I see our system comming to an abrupt ending real soon...............Our country does not take care of its own people.
Do you ever wonder what great things might have been done with the 600 billion already spent on the 2 wars. Things like infrastructure repair and replacement, new school funding, border and dangerous element protection,IE chemical-Nuclear plants etc., port inspections, universal health care. I'll bet everyone on this site that is against universal health care has a good insurance plan.
 

pandabear

Well-Known Member
Do you ever wonder what great things might have been done with the 600 billion already spent on the 2 wars. Things like infrastructure repair and replacement, new school funding, border and dangerous element protection,IE chemical-Nuclear plants etc., port inspections, universal health care. I'll bet everyone on this site that is against universal health care has a good insurance plan.

my god man so your against the war in afghanistan too????
 

medicineman

New Member
my god man so your against the war in afghanistan too????
Hey, Dude, I'm against all wars. Wars are what happens when intelligent men lose their perspective, and forget what the death of one human life means. Mostly the ones that start wars, never fight in them, unlike the old days where the kings lead the troops into battle. If wars were fought by those that start them, I'd be all for them as it would thin out the idiots. I'd like to see Bush and Amadinajad go toe to toe, If bush wins no nukes for Iran, If Amadinajad wins, then they can have nukes, simple and to the point, no sanctions that will only hurt the Iranian people, no major bombing campaigns, just a ring on the world stage with Bush and Amadinajad in the center and no holds barred, kicks to the groin, OK, biting, OK, stomping while down, OK, untill one taps out.. That also holds for the head of al queda, Bush and their conterpoint in the ring. If al-queda wins, we stop fighting them on their turf and have a truce, if we win then we have a truce, so no losers. But then, you see, all the Arms mfgrs. would be out of business, the militery contractors would be starving and peace would bring on a major depression in the corporate structure, maybe some of that money could be spent on helping the poor, crazy huh.
 

pandabear

Well-Known Member
thats funny that you dont like wars because you dont like people dieing, the fact is you fight wars to protect lives. silly rabbit
 

ViRedd

New Member
Well, I have a LONG memory. Here in the People's Republic of Kalifornia, we passed the state lottery and the money was supposed to go to the schools. Here we are, years later, and the schools are worse then ever. So, where did the billions and billions of dollars go? Right into the general fund, that's where. The Democrat controlled legislature spends money in Kalifornia like water on their pet programs.

The answer is to let private industry build the bridges for a profit. The overall savings would be tremendous. The private marketplace is way more efficient and cheaper in the long run than ANY government program.

Vi
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
i do have a short attention span and I did not read the article but everyone already knows that this is the sad new strategy that the leaders of the dems are pushing now, basically useing this terrible tradgety to incorrectly point the finger at the Republicans and I dont care what you say, its obvious they are trying to make Bush look bad as he is the head republican at the moment and you know it.

so although it may be true that I have a short attention span it is clear for all to see how you are trying to tiptoe around the true intention behind this "article" when it is plain as day what this really is.

so that being said I would like to encourage GW bush to go put his hard hat on and go inspect these bridges:mrgreen: so everyone will be happy:mrgreen:
Then you still don't get it, Republicans starting in the 1970's started cutting budgets under the guise of making government smaller. Well my friend it has come to bite us in the ass. When we should have been using taxes on our infrastructure (roads, bridges, electrical power grid, public transportation ect). Sure the democrats were putting pork into the bills (But nothing on par with the republicans over the past 12 years they were in office) But it is and always was republicans who kept cutting budgets. Just in the 80's Reagan cut the Public Mental Health Care budgets to 1/4 of what it was (this forced a lot of mental hospitals to close their doors)... There has been no increases to the Public Mental Heath Budgets. Have you noticed the increase of Child Molestation cases since the 1980's? This is in direct correlation of the lack of Public Mental Health Facilities to lock up these mother fuckers.

Also Reagan's Budget cuts directly caused a Homelessness epidemic that we are still dealing with today. (and don't even start trying say that these people chose to be homeless)
Don't get on a high horse with me, I could bury you with facts to prove you wrong, if you have the education to read it.

Vi that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard you say... We paid for those bridges with our tax money and tax money should pay for them to be repaired or rebuilt... In case you didn't know it contractors do build and repair those bridges FOR PROFIT....

The California Lottery was supposed to go to the Schools, and I agree that the monies were misspent but by the same token when a republicans were in office Budgets were cut... Remember the Budget Cuts under Pete Wilson Vi? So you can't blame all of California's problems on the democrats and be telling the truth about it.

Just admit it, Budget cuts were great in the short term, but have fucked us in the long run.
 

Dankdude

Well-Known Member
The private marketplace is way more efficient and cheaper in the long run than ANY government program.

Vi[/QUOTE]

Back it up with real facts Vi... Not some hack... Walter Williams doesn't cut it.
 

ViRedd

New Member
The private marketplace is way more efficient and cheaper in the long run than ANY government program.

Vi
Back it up with real facts Vi... Not some hack... Walter Williams doesn't cut it.[/quote]

Come on Dank ... it goes way beyond Walter Williams. Do a little research to see who rebuilt the I-5 overpasses after the Northridge earthquake and what the results were.

Here ... I did the research for you ... hope you read it and learn something. (Not dissing you).

Lessons for post-Katrina reconstruction: A high-road vs. low-road recovery

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
thats funny that you dont like wars because you dont like people dieing, the fact is you fight wars to protect lives. silly rabbit
Are you completely insane, war is all about dying. The problem is, the wrong people are doing the dying. It should be the dumb ass motherfuckers that start the damn things, and people like you that think war is about saving lives.
 

budman226

Well-Known Member
alright well im not big on political bantering because i find it pointless but i do often read these political threads that medicine man and vi go back and forth on because i find it entertaining and it keeps me up on politics but one thing i have to say is, vi if your not going to take the time to read the article that the person your debating with has posted how can you come in here and argue against it?!!! seems to me u embody the typical republican you want to argue but you wont take the time to actually do some research on what the opposition is trying to make a point on. come on man your better than that. how can you make a valid point if you havent read the full topic of conversation. im not dissing you or anything but your posts are so rhetorical all you spout about is how all democrats somehow have this decietful vendeta for bush, come up with some new material bro. peace and i love you all...........repulican or democrat!!
 

pandabear

Well-Known Member
yea your right, i didnt read it so I may have been off base, im definatly down for taxes to pay for our bridges and infrustructure of coarse just hate all the pork and the waste
 

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
being in politics should be a volunteer job. then maybe we could get somewhere.

funny how we sit and go on about dem this repub that, meanwhile our county is under-maintained. drive thru my county and you will know what i mean. i literally, along with many others, have to add suspension to my vehicle to drive these roads. and this is not some hick town.
 
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