Are my ORGANICS working along with CHLORINE/CHLORAMINE?

aeviaanah

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
I have made it common practice to set my water out before adding it to reservoir. I have always been curious if that was really necessary or not. Are organics still effective using tap water that hasn't been dechlorinated?

From my understanding, chlorine will evaporate while chloramine wont.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
For chloramine, you need to use neutralizing chemicals. Thiosulfate works well, and should leave the water safe for the microflora.
cheers 'neer
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
Molasses to Neutralize Chlorine and Chloramines in Tap Water?

From T Wilson of http://www.microbeorganics.com

"1/ ascorbic acid for chloramines or chlorine; 3 grams in 100 gallons will
treat up to 3PPM.

2/ I found your chlorine test interesting and decided to do the same to put my argument that reducing sugars in the molasses would handle the chlorine and chloramine. Using a similar test strip that tests for both free and total chlorine, I found my city water to have 0.5ppm free and 1.5 ppm of free and total chlorine, respectively. Testing 1 gal and 5 gal of citywater, I added 1/4 teaspoon of molasses to each. The reaction was not instantaneous but the kinetics were faster than I would have guessed.

The one gallon reaction showed no detectable chlorine of either type within 3 minutes. At 5 gallons, I obtained the same result within 20 minutes.

Chlorine levels are regulated a 4 ppm maximum 4 ppm = 4mg/l
Chloramine concentrations are expressed as chlorine equivalents, so one uses the molecular weight of chlorine for calculations.
One molecule of reducing sugar will react with one molecule of chlorine.
Therefore, on a weight basis, one needs 4mg/l *(the molecular weight of the reducing sugar/the molecular weight of chlorine)/ (the decimal fraction of reducing sugar in your molasses)
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 15% to 50% for the percent reducing sugar in molasses
The reducing sugars are going to be a mixture of mono and disaccharides. Molecular weights = 180 and 342, respectively
Chlorine molecular weight =70
Therefore, worst case, one needs 4*(342/70)/.15 =130mg/L molasses
I saw a recipe by Elaine that calls for 1 oz molasses in 5 gallons. That’s 1 part in 640 or 1563 ppm .
So, worse case you have a 12 fold excess.

Run these same numbers for pure glucose (a reducing monosaccharide) and you end up needing 10ppm glucose. When i need dilution water for spraying, I use a 20-30 ppm glucose and let it sit overnight.

I continue to be perplexed by the amount of hand wringing that goes on over chlorine and chloramine. These both function as oxidizing agents and, as such, are destroyed by reducing agents.

Cane molasses runs at 15-20% reducing sugar.
Regulations allow a maximum of 4ppm chlorine, expressed as Cl2.
Allowing for the molecular weight difference between Cl2 the reducing sugars in molasses, you would need 10ppm reducing sugar to react with the chlorine.
At 15% reducing sugar, you need 66ppm molasses.

I put my molasses in first, give it some time to react and don't worry."
 
aeviaanah

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
Matt Rize said:
Molasses to Neutralize Chlorine and Chloramines in Tap Water?

From T Wilson of http://www.microbeorganics.com

"1/ ascorbic acid for chloramines or chlorine; 3 grams in 100 gallons will
treat up to 3PPM.

2/ I found your chlorine test interesting and decided to do the same to put my argument that reducing sugars in the molasses would handle the chlorine and chloramine. Using a similar test strip that tests for both free and total chlorine, I found my city water to have 0.5ppm free and 1.5 ppm of free and total chlorine, respectively. Testing 1 gal and 5 gal of citywater, I added 1/4 teaspoon of molasses to each. The reaction was not instantaneous but the kinetics were faster than I would have guessed.

The one gallon reaction showed no detectable chlorine of either type within 3 minutes. At 5 gallons, I obtained the same result within 20 minutes.

Chlorine levels are regulated a 4 ppm maximum 4 ppm = 4mg/l
Chloramine concentrations are expressed as chlorine equivalents, so one uses the molecular weight of chlorine for calculations.
One molecule of reducing sugar will react with one molecule of chlorine.
Therefore, on a weight basis, one needs 4mg/l *(the molecular weight of the reducing sugar/the molecular weight of chlorine)/ (the decimal fraction of reducing sugar in your molasses)
I’ve seen numbers ranging from 15% to 50% for the percent reducing sugar in molasses
The reducing sugars are going to be a mixture of mono and disaccharides. Molecular weights = 180 and 342, respectively
Chlorine molecular weight =70
Therefore, worst case, one needs 4*(342/70)/.15 =130mg/L molasses
I saw a recipe by Elaine that calls for 1 oz molasses in 5 gallons. That’s 1 part in 640 or 1563 ppm .
So, worse case you have a 12 fold excess.

Run these same numbers for pure glucose (a reducing monosaccharide) and you end up needing 10ppm glucose. When i need dilution water for spraying, I use a 20-30 ppm glucose and let it sit overnight.

I continue to be perplexed by the amount of hand wringing that goes on over chlorine and chloramine. These both function as oxidizing agents and, as such, are destroyed by reducing agents.

Cane molasses runs at 15-20% reducing sugar.
Regulations allow a maximum of 4ppm chlorine, expressed as Cl2.
Allowing for the molecular weight difference between Cl2 the reducing sugars in molasses, you would need 10ppm reducing sugar to react with the chlorine.
At 15% reducing sugar, you need 66ppm molasses.

I put my molasses in first, give it some time to react and don't worry."
Click to expand...
Exactly what I needed....Matt Rize to come by and hook a brotha up. So if i put an oz of molasses per 5 gallons Id be alright, no need to sit out over night? And by your data you'd say id be alright 12x over, worse case?
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
Just get a water filtration system and a KDF85 filter with it. It is around 100 bucks and has made my life that much more simple. It was worth every dollar I spent on it. I was doing organics without a filter or bubbling my water, and had some real issues. All my problems started to simplify after I added the filter.
 
aeviaanah

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
NightbirdX said:
Just get a water filtration system and a KDF85 filter with it. It is around 100 bucks and has made my life that much more simple. It was worth every dollar I spent on it. I was doing organics without a filter or bubbling my water, and had some real issues. All my problems started to simplify after I added the filter.
Click to expand...
how long that filter last? in gallons?
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
6000 gallons filter life IIRC. I use the Hydrologic Small Boy and bought the KDF85 filter after. I had a 55 gallon drum I cleaned up, put a splitter on the coldwater washer spout, and ran a hose to where my drum was. I set up the filter which was really easy. I'm no handy man. It worked right away. I let it run for a bit to clean out any impurities that may have been left in the lines or the filter, and then emptied it and let it fill. It fills at about 60gph. Less than an hour to fill the drum. I picked up an 8 line air pump and some air hoses and air stones. I have 4 lines in the barrel pumping oxygen into the water at all times, leaving me 4 for anything else I want to do with them. I also added a submersible pump and length of 3/4" hose which I use to fill jugs or whatever. All in all I think I put together everything exactly the way I wanted and spent 300 dollars. Probably one of the top 3 investements I've made.
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
aeviaanah

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
NightbirdX said:
A quick google has the filter for $76 online.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&sugexp=gsih&cp=16&gs_id=17&xhr=t&q=hydrologic+small+boy&qe=aHlkcm9sb2dpYyBzbWFsbA&qesig=icMu3mrIrC2Y1UGpyT_3Uw&pkc=AFgZ2tlTQJwhWV8RECwSjdqxzGBARcO71mWhcs5mtvrupkVlSMIGkfaTnvQugIDviDoHyEqQoITvlJRkjA59fbwsAQXd2HUb2A&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1143&bih=669&wrapid=tljp1316212167718024&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=2540095356514613540&sa=X&ei=5s1zTrLVHPKosALdhbWLBQ&sqi=2&ved=0CD4Q8wIwAA#
Click to expand...
I appreciate it Nightbird....ill be sure to invest in this. Just started the new babies and am lookin for some good investments for this run.
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
NP man, I try to get it out there as much as I can. This was one of the biggest improvements to my garden. If there's anything else you need to know about it just ask. :)

You know whats funny is that I was reading some old threads about bubba kush from you from 2009 a bit back. You still rockin the Bubba? I have one I've been cultivating for awhile and it is just about done on its first run. Looks really kill. I have read that it gives off golf ball nugs, but mine is really all about colas. It doesn't like to branch. I have to top it really early to get it to branch and then it put off around 3 main arms and 2 smaller arms that came from the bottom. All of them are filled with the most dense kushy colas that I have ever grown. I was told to let it go to day 70, so I'm doing it for the first run. I don't know about 70 days, but at 9 weeks there has been a marked size difference from week 8 to 9. I can't wait to try it out.
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
aeviaanah said:
Exactly what I needed....Matt Rize to come by and hook a brotha up. So if i put an oz of molasses per 5 gallons Id be alright, no need to sit out over night? And by your data you'd say id be alright 12x over, worse case?
Click to expand...
He said an hour is good enough for the reaction to occur.
 
aeviaanah

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
NightbirdX said:
NP man, I try to get it out there as much as I can. This was one of the biggest improvements to my garden. If there's anything else you need to know about it just ask. :)

You know whats funny is that I was reading some old threads about bubba kush from you from 2009 a bit back. You still rockin the Bubba? I have one I've been cultivating for awhile and it is just about done on its first run. Looks really kill. I have read that it gives off golf ball nugs, but mine is really all about colas. It doesn't like to branch. I have to top it really early to get it to branch and then it put off around 3 main arms and 2 smaller arms that came from the bottom. All of them are filled with the most dense kushy colas that I have ever grown. I was told to let it go to day 70, so I'm doing it for the first run. I don't know about 70 days, but at 9 weeks there has been a marked size difference from week 8 to 9. I can't wait to try it out.
Click to expand...
I went out and got a water purifier. Orchard supply had a single canister for 30 bux along with two filters for an additional 10. I couldve got the 10 dollar filter but it wasnt clear and it didnt have an on and off valve. I'm thinking about running a hose through the hole in the external wall of the garage, up the wall and through the attic to the hole i got in the grow room. This will give me fresh water in the grow room.
Matt Rize said:
He said an hour is good enough for the reaction to occur.
Click to expand...
Thanks man...how you been anyway? Still makin that kill hash?
 
NightbirdX

NightbirdX

Well-Known Member
aeviaanah said:
I went out and got a water purifier. Orchard supply had a single canister for 30 bux along with two filters for an additional 10. I couldve got the 10 dollar filter but it wasnt clear and it didnt have an on and off valve. I'm thinking about running a hose through the hole in the external wall of the garage, up the wall and through the attic to the hole i got in the grow room. This will give me fresh water in the grow room. QUOTE]

Good to go man. Just be sure you have the right filter to get the Chloramines out. Sounds good on running the hose to. I basically had to do the same thing to get water to my area.
Click to expand...
 
aeviaanah

aeviaanah

Well-Known Member
NightbirdX said:
NP man, I try to get it out there as much as I can. This was one of the biggest improvements to my garden. If there's anything else you need to know about it just ask. :)

You know whats funny is that I was reading some old threads about bubba kush from you from 2009 a bit back. You still rockin the Bubba? I have one I've been cultivating for awhile and it is just about done on its first run. Looks really kill. I have read that it gives off golf ball nugs, but mine is really all about colas. It doesn't like to branch. I have to top it really early to get it to branch and then it put off around 3 main arms and 2 smaller arms that came from the bottom. All of them are filled with the most dense kushy colas that I have ever grown. I was told to let it go to day 70, so I'm doing it for the first run. I don't know about 70 days, but at 9 weeks there has been a marked size difference from week 8 to 9. I can't wait to try it out.
Click to expand...
Matt Rize said:
He said an hour is good enough for the reaction to occur.
Click to expand...
NightbirdX said:
aeviaanah said:
I went out and got a water purifier. Orchard supply had a single canister for 30 bux along with two filters for an additional 10. I couldve got the 10 dollar filter but it wasnt clear and it didnt have an on and off valve. I'm thinking about running a hose through the hole in the external wall of the garage, up the wall and through the attic to the hole i got in the grow room. This will give me fresh water in the grow room. QUOTE]

Good to go man. Just be sure you have the right filter to get the Chloramines out. Sounds good on running the hose to. I basically had to do the same thing to get water to my area.
Click to expand...
I just tested the water filter.....not worth a fuck. I check before filtration and got 160ppm....after filtration (using the smallest micron filter available) level 4...160 ppm. No difference. I will be returning this. It wasnt a chloramine filter, didnt have that available. I guess i need to invest a bit more money for something. 160ppm isnt that bad. Maybe ill stick with the molasses method.
Click to expand...
 
super2200

super2200

Well-Known Member
aeviaanah said:
NightbirdX said:
I just tested the water filter.....not worth a fuck. I check before filtration and got 160ppm....after filtration (using the smallest micron filter available) level 4...160 ppm. No difference. I will be returning this. It wasnt a chloramine filter, didnt have that available. I guess i need to invest a bit more money for something. 160ppm isnt that bad. Maybe ill stick with the molasses method.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure you can just run the water through activated charcoal to remove the chloramine. I fill my res and run it through a cheap fish tank filter for 12 hour and change the carbon every month.
Click to expand...
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
aeviaanah said:
Thanks man...how you been anyway? Still makin that kill hash?
Click to expand...
Hey thank you. Yeah, hash is looking right, I call my style "ice wax" haha, made for smoking like bho. But its just ice water extract (bubble hash) made right.
This was from my vegan organic Chernobyl:
 
Matt Rize

Matt Rize

Hashmaster
aeviaanah said:
NightbirdX said:
I just tested the water filter.....not worth a fuck. I check before filtration and got 160ppm....after filtration (using the smallest micron filter available) level 4...160 ppm. No difference. I will be returning this. It wasnt a chloramine filter, didnt have that available. I guess i need to invest a bit more money for something. 160ppm isnt that bad. Maybe ill stick with the molasses method.
Click to expand...
You are buying carbon filters, those don't really take the ppm or pH down because they pull out some stuff from the water (ie smells and small particles from the piping) but not the dissolved salts that make pH and ppm.
Click to expand...
 
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