Aquarium Water for Your Indoor Organic Garden
- Thread starter monkeybones
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monkeybones
Well-Known Member
hmm, that would be an interesting experiment to try. my thoughts are that the nutrient composition of the fish waste will have something to do with what you feed them. that will determine what they're pooping. but also the type of creature they are will change what they are taking from the food before they poop, thus also changing the nutrient composition.
i think your experiment would have the most interesting results if you were to try a low-growth high-waste type fish like goldfish, who are basically the underwater cows
if it helps, i have tried watering from a 60 gallon with about 80 fish and 500 shrimp in it, as well as a 5 gallon with just a betta and some shrimp. plants grew noticably more vigorously when being watered with the larger tank's water. plants being watered from the 5 gallon were also more likely to show signs of stress, and had a less stable PH
monkeybones
Well-Known Member
yeah this is a possibility, but i think mostly in scenarios where the person isn't doing regular water changes, which is important in aquarium health. those built up salts will also harm fish.
monkeybones
Well-Known Member
a wider variety of organisms. they will do the work of adding nutrients for you
personified
Active Member
You can control amount of nutrients by the feed amount; the more you feed them the more they poo.
FR33MASON
Active Member
FR33MASON
Active Member
I figure that your plant's issue with running from a 5 Gal. tank is that the smaller the volume of water, the less stable the conditions will be. It seems counterintuitive to think that a 5 gal is harder to maintain but it is true, you simply have to be more on the ball and just be that knowlegeable to detect minute changes and correct them before things go critical with smaller volumes of water. The larger the volume of water the more stable but if you were to allow a sizeable volume of water to go out of whack it is a herculean effort to correct so you still need to be observant but it takes a heck of alot to fluctuate the chemical properties of large volumes of water.
monkeybones
Well-Known Member
to an extent. anything your fish can't eat gets wasted and pollutes the water
monkeybones
Well-Known Member
quite true. i keep a 2 gallon as well and that's the hardest one to keep healthy with just a couple shrimp in it
personified
Active Member
Fish food is ground up fish and fish emulsion is not waste it is plant food. No were near pollution. Been doing this for a couple years now and I am here to tell you it works. The pic below is when the fish were tiny feeder fish and I only have 5. I had to compensate by over feeding. I have never seen the fish leave anything left no matter how much I put in the tank. Goldfish will eat until they die.
FR33MASON
Active Member
Any excess dead organic matter will pollute your water and tax your nitrogen cycle in an enclosed system.
When you over feed, a fish dies, or a plant dies or too many leaves fall into the pond or aquarium or in one case, a cat drowned or was thrown into a pond, it will over burden the nitrifying bacteria and begin to release mass amounts of ammonia. If the ammonia is allowed to rise (spike) it will begin to further kill off bacilli and fungi and eventually it goes lethal for fish and even plants. Eventually the bacteria will catch up with the ammonia but you are not out of the woods just yet. The nitrosomonas bacilli will catch up with the ammonia and continue oxidizing the ammonia into nitrite and then the nitrobacter bacilli will oxidize nitrite into nitrate and that is when you will see a nitrate spike and a mass die off will occur.
I will say that it is very hard to throw out an established nitrogen cycle in a tank or pond that is 100 gallons or larger.
As far as commercial fish foods are concerned I just picked up the food that I use and this is the list of ingredients:
high-quality easily digestible South Antarctic Krill, Herring, Squid, and New Zealand Mussel protein, and several all-natural color-enhancing ingredients for a balanced diet that boosts immune system function and enhances the full spectrum of your fish’s color. With the belief that all fish require a complete and fully balanced varied diet, also contains Algae Meal, that consists of Seaweed, Kelp, and Haematococcus pluvialis (a micro algae), a premium grade of natural Spirulina, as well as a fruit & vegetable extract that consists of Spinach, Red & Green Cabbage, Peas, Broccoli, Red Pepper, Zucchini, Tomato, Kiwi, Apricot, Pear, Mango, Apple, Papaya, and Peach.
So as you can see it is far from just ground up fish meal. I only use that commercial fish food as a supplement only. I also use a variety of frozen foods and even some fresh foods such as freshly ground chicken hearts or some lettuce or peas. As far as goldfish and koi are concerned, they should be fed a higher plant diet as too much protien can harm their liver and applies to any cold water fish as a general rule.
Feeding should at first be only what the fish can eat within 2 minutes of the food hitting the water. If they eat all the food in the 2 min. period, then add a bit more. Smaller amounts, more times a day is better than larger amounts fewer times a day.
This information is more for people who might be just starting out with fish and are only general guidelines until they get to know how their tank or pond will behave and handle atypical feedings, water changes, etc. Obviously a person like personified knows how their system will handle feedings and other maintenance aspects and so they can push their tank or pond to the limit.
personified
Active Member
A good portion of what you listed in the ingrediants are nothing more than fertilizer for the plants. You hit it on the head when you said bacteria need to catch up with the ammonia. The first two weeks to a month the fish are feed very little until the ecosystem develops.
I agree that you should not feed them any more than what they can eat in two minutes. What I would do is feed them three times a day. Now the system is so developed I am sure I could remove the plants and just let the bacteria in the hydroton filter it. I have enough medium it would be no problem. Basically it would act like a normal bio filter .
The key is ratio for evey gallon you of water you want at least two gallons of medium. Other wise you do have a build up of nitrites and the fish will die a slow miserable death. Alot of people urinate in the water and filter it through the medium for the first couple weeks before introducing fish.
Yes I said urinate. There are people that use that method alone with no fish.
FR33MASON
Active Member
Do use caution as most reptile waste contains massive amounts of ammonia which can burn sensitive roots. Start out with a dilute amount of water/waste. If your plants respond favourably then slowly increase the concentration to either what you feel comfOrtable with or when your plant tells you it has had enough.
monkeybones
Well-Known Member
you think i don't read the labels? fish food is indeed a bunch of nutrients, but what you're ignoring is that it's not only nutrients which are unavailable to the plant, but also after a short period of time, uneaten food will rot and typically your filter system is not equipped to deal with the fish shit plus the rotting food. this can lead to a build op of toxic chemicals which cause a plethora of issues including ph.
you are also forgetting fish foods like insect larvae and live macro organisms like brine shrimp. these are essential to happy long fish lives and breeding
personified
Active Member
The part you seem to keep forgeting is the eco system of bacteria. It is pumped up to the hydroton and then decomposes. Now I do not want to argue with your expertise with out ever doing it. Instead I will just go with my experience and the clarity of my water.
These fish were the size of my pinky thumbnail when I got them except for the koi which was the size of my thumbnail over 2 years ago.
Now please explain to me why they are not dead. Stop thinking linear this is not a regular fish tank all the rules you think you know DO NOT APPLY!!!
FR33MASON
Active Member
Personified and Monkeybones....you two are missing each other's points.
It is true that whatever makes up your fish food will decompose into what amounts to nutrients that plants can use as outlined by personified.
But if you over-feed and allow too much food to go unconsumed, the food will create toxins or in other words, pollution as outlined by monkeybones.
I know that between the three of us that we know what we are talking about but there are many who will read this and do not have the experience or knowledge of what we are talking about and it is great that we are making sure that the information is as accurate as it can be.
It is true that whatever makes up your fish food will decompose into what amounts to nutrients that plants can use as outlined by personified.
But if you over-feed and allow too much food to go unconsumed, the food will create toxins or in other words, pollution as outlined by monkeybones.
I know that between the three of us that we know what we are talking about but there are many who will read this and do not have the experience or knowledge of what we are talking about and it is great that we are making sure that the information is as accurate as it can be.