Anyone running 315 CMH and 600 HPS in a 48X48?

hotrodharley said:
I run a single 1000 HPS in a 4’X4’ tent. It’s powered just right. No issues. In an air cooled hood.
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You're definitely not kidding around with that type of setup, ha ha, and hear i heard Alaska is filled with sissy boys who overcompensate on their grows by using over powered bulbs in tight spaces. LMAO.

Jokes aside, I've actually little experience with anything above 600 watt as far hid goes, and led also lol, but I'm actually a fan of the 400 watt bulb, I'd probably really enjoy a 315 cmh, only part that makes me nervous is the UVC light that they emit, but I will say that I have seen smaller bulbs such as the 400w produce some decent buds in the past so I figure it's probably somewhat comparable, but me personally I'm more inclined to choose a setup that has wider coverage of light overall rather than full on intensity, so although I don't have experience with the larger bulbs I would still probably use a smaller bulb unless we are talking about a space twice this size, I'm more of a fan of customized full spectrum and with such large lights customization is less of a possibility because too much of the allotted energy is being consumed by a single bulb with its own narrow spectrum, I'm speaking specifically for smaller tents or rooms when I say this, because as the room gets larger the need for a larger bulb becomes somewhat necessary & more efficient, but for rooms smaller than say 6x6 me myself I would go with a dual setup or tri/quad setup of lights if I had the means and ability to choose exactly what I want to grow with, and I'm not against mixing HID with LED I think there's plenty of ways to add in each spectrum just have to space your lights out appropriately so that each light isn't on top of the other and get the right adjustment angles etc.

Not to put down anyone who flowers with only hps, I respect anyone who still grows the old school hps/mh way and I meant no offense. Take care.
 
mustbetribbin said:
You're definitely not kidding around with that type of setup, ha ha, and hear i heard Alaska is filled with sissy boys who overcompensate on their grows by using over powered bulbs in tight spaces. LMAO.

Jokes aside, I've actually little experience with anything above 600 watt as far hid goes, and led also lol, but I'm actually a fan of the 400 watt bulb, I'd probably really enjoy a 315 cmh, only part that makes me nervous is the UVC light that they emit, but I will say that I have seen smaller bulbs such as the 400w produce some decent buds in the past so I figure it's probably somewhat comparable, but me personally I'm more inclined to choose a setup that has wider coverage of light overall rather than full on intensity, so although I don't have experience with the larger bulbs I would still probably use a smaller bulb unless we are talking about a space twice this size, I'm more of a fan of customized full spectrum and with such large lights customization is less of a possibility because too much of the allotted energy is being consumed by a single bulb with its own narrow spectrum, I'm speaking specifically for smaller tents or rooms when I say this, because as the room gets larger the need for a larger bulb becomes somewhat necessary & more efficient, but for rooms smaller than say 6x6 me myself I would go with a dual setup or tri/quad setup of lights if I had the means and ability to choose exactly what I want to grow with, and I'm not against mixing HID with LED I think there's plenty of ways to add in each spectrum just have to space your lights out appropriately so that each light isn't on top of the other and get the right adjustment angles etc.

Not to put down anyone who flowers with only hps, I respect anyone who still grows the old school hps/mh way and I meant no offense. Take care.
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So long as you are happy what does it matter if you chop with less bud?
 
I think you should give a 1kw hps a go. Theres a good reason 1kw hps is the gold standard of comparison not 400 or 600watt hps.
I started with 5x 600 watt hps. Then got a couple 1kw. The differance is huge. I quickled stopped using the 600 watt bulbs entirely because they just arnt nearly as good.

Just make sure your using eye hortilux super hps bulbs and your good to go. Or get some gavita DE fixtures if you want the very best. A lot of people say they are too hot or whatever other BS but I treat them the same as any other open hood setup and dont have a single issue, 7ft ceilings, about 18 inches above canopy.
 
hotrodharley said:
So long as you are happy what does it matter if you chop with less bud?
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I was just saying that overall intensity, shouldn't block us from the realization of the need for coverage and spectrum also.

I do realize some people are more happy with simplicity of a single light, and many times it's the most cost effective option especially with HID, but to fully optimize someone's setup the person needs to be interested in expanding the light spectrum to a customized level that modern technology is continuously pushing us further towards, more spectrum possibilities are possible now that ever before LED has just begun the lights are only going to get brighter and release more and more lumens per watt as the years continue onwards, that's all I'm saying, times have changed as far as lighting goes and it can make a large difference in how an indoor plant completes it's cycle photosynthesis and the overall health of a plant in general, because synthesization within the plant is more efficient for the plant to complete by receiving a balanced and full array of light. I'm kind of a spectrum nerd sorry.
 
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mustbetribbin said:
I was just saying that overall intensity, shouldn't block us from the realization of the need for coverage and spectrum also.

I do realize some people are more happy with simplicity of a single light, and many times it's the most cost effective option especially with HID, but to fully optimize someone's setup the person needs to be interested in expanding the light spectrum to a customized level that modern technology is continuously pushing us further towards, more spectrum possibilities are possible now that ever before LED has just begun the lights are only going to get brighter and release more and more lumens per watt as the years continue onwards, that's all I'm saying, times have changed as far as lighting goes and it can make a large difference in how an indoor plant completes it's cycle photosynthesis and the overall health of a plant in general, because synthesization within the plant is more efficient for the plant to complete by receiving a balanced and full array of light. I'm kind of a spectrum nerd sorry.
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No apologies necessary and I’ll say again that LED is the future. Once costs start coming down a bit. For now and for those on a tight budget nothing yields weight of quality bud like HID.
 
hotrodharley said:
No apologies necessary and I’ll say again that LED is the future. Once costs start coming down a bit. For now and for those on a tight budget nothing yields weight of quality bud like HID.
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Yeah especially those with low ceiling height, the main issue with LED is that the light height has to be 2-3ft away from the plants this can lead to height issues and less bud production because if the plants get too tall then the leaves get burned by the light rays, where as HID bulbs can be kept within a closer range of proximity to the buds and therefore allow for more production with less risk of light scolding the buds leaves and harvest. So those who have less than ideal height issues are probably better off with HID, because if a room is say 5ft tall the plants can only reach a 2 ft height including the container before the light starts to become too intense, at least with the LED fixtures that I've used so far give me this indication, some LED fixtures have diffusers that widen the light ray so that the lights can be closer to the plant, but I haven't tried one of those models yet. That's what I would probably recommend to anyone looking at an LED fixture, don't get straight diodes unless you have the correct height to buffer the intensity of the light rays, protons, umols whatever you call them.... light dispersion is key with LEDs.
 
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mustbetribbin said:
Yeah especially those with low ceiling height, the main issue with LED is that the light height has to be 2-3ft away from the plants this can lead to height issues and less bud production because if the plants get too tall then the leaves get burned by the light rays, where as HID bulbs can be kept within a closer range of proximity to the buds and therefore allow for more production with less risk of light scolding the buds leaves and harvest.
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Add in air cooled reflector. I have plants 12” away and no ill effects. I’m going to build a kickass LED. Just as soon as I figure out the best options at the moment. I used to build custom electric guitars. I don’t think this could be difficult.
 
mustbetribbin said:
Yeah especially those with low ceiling height, the main issue with LED is that the light height has to be 2-3ft away from the plants this can lead to height issues and less bud production because if the plants get too tall then the leaves get burned by the light rays, where as HID bulbs can be kept within a closer range of proximity to the buds and therefore allow for more production with less risk of light scolding the buds leaves and harvest. So those who have less than ideal height issues are probably better off with HID, because if a room is say 5ft tall the plants can only reach a 2 ft height including the container before the light starts to become too intense, at least with the LED fixtures that I've used so far give me this indication, some LED fixtures have diffusers that widen the light ray so that the lights can be closer to the plant, but I haven't tried one of those models yet. That's what I would probably recommend to anyone looking at an LED fixture, don't get straight diodes unless you have the correct height to buffer the intensity of the light rays, protons, umols whatever you call them.... light dispersion is key with LEDs.
Click to expand...
You can hang your lights much closer, depending on the design. Our diy panels end up 8-12 inches away, or even closer if we are on lower power. They defo can go much closer than hid, but its a very spread out design. Id say the main issue with LED is rather that you must be able to maintain minimum temps and RH which can be tricky in an openspace.
 
mustbetribbin said:
I was just saying that overall intensity, shouldn't block us from the realization of the need for coverage and spectrum also.

I do realize some people are more happy with simplicity of a single light, and many times it's the most cost effective option especially with HID, but to fully optimize someone's setup the person needs to be interested in expanding the light spectrum to a customized level that modern technology is continuously pushing us further towards, more spectrum possibilities are possible now that ever before LED has just begun the lights are only going to get brighter and release more and more lumens per watt as the years continue onwards, that's all I'm saying, times have changed as far as lighting goes and it can make a large difference in how an indoor plant completes it's cycle photosynthesis and the overall health of a plant in general, because synthesization within the plant is more efficient for the plant to complete by receiving a balanced and full array of light. I'm kind of a spectrum nerd sorry.
Click to expand...
You should keep yourself in context. Your talking about hps. Your talking about using 600 watt hps. I dont care what you think you know about spectrum, your not going to do better with hps than using 1kw hortilux super hps bulbs. If you dont think that's what you should be using, your wrong. If you think your better off mixing MH and HPS, your wrong.
It's all well and good to use cmh or led, but if we are talking about HID for flowering, you want 1kw. End of story.
 
mustbetribbin said:
You're definitely not kidding around with that type of setup, ha ha, and hear i heard Alaska is filled with sissy boys who overcompensate on their grows by using over powered bulbs in tight spaces. LMAO.

Jokes aside, I've actually little experience with anything above 600 watt as far hid goes, and led also lol, but I'm actually a fan of the 400 watt bulb, I'd probably really enjoy a 315 cmh, only part that makes me nervous is the UVC light that they emit, but I will say that I have seen smaller bulbs such as the 400w produce some decent buds in the past so I figure it's probably somewhat comparable, but me personally I'm more inclined to choose a setup that has wider coverage of light overall rather than full on intensity, so although I don't have experience with the larger bulbs I would still probably use a smaller bulb unless we are talking about a space twice this size, I'm more of a fan of customized full spectrum and with such large lights customization is less of a possibility because too much of the allotted energy is being consumed by a single bulb with its own narrow spectrum, I'm speaking specifically for smaller tents or rooms when I say this, because as the room gets larger the need for a larger bulb becomes somewhat necessary & more efficient, but for rooms smaller than say 6x6 me myself I would go with a dual setup or tri/quad setup of lights if I had the means and ability to choose exactly what I want to grow with, and I'm not against mixing HID with LED I think there's plenty of ways to add in each spectrum just have to space your lights out appropriately so that each light isn't on top of the other and get the right adjustment angles etc.

Not to put down anyone who flowers with only hps, I respect anyone who still grows the old school hps/mh way and I meant no offense. Take care.
Click to expand...
315W would probably be perfect for you...I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the UVC makes you nervous though. If anything, UV spectrums are very beneficial in the flowering phase since they stimulate trichome production as a form of protection from the UV's. Plus, the light from a 315w would easily produce more light than a 400w HPS. Maybe not as heavily red spectrum, but the 3700k bulbs still produces a pretty balanced spectrum of UV, Blue, and Red. That's why I prefer using both HPS and CMH together...the CMH provides the UV, green, and some blue while the HPS blasts them with orange and red. :) Just my setup though, and 2x 315's and 1 1000w HPS in a single 6.5x6.5x6.5 tent does get pretty toasty without the 12,000 btu AC unit I have hooked directly to the intake!
 
growingforfun said:
You should keep yourself in context. Your talking about hps. Your talking about using 600 watt hps. I dont care what you think you know about spectrum, your not going to do better with hps than using 1kw hortilux super hps bulbs. If you dont think that's what you should be using, your wrong. If you think your better off mixing MH and HPS, your wrong.
It's all well and good to use cmh or led, but if we are talking about HID for flowering, you want 1kw. End of story.
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Except for the people whose application isn't practical for a 1kw...in fact, 600w HPS's is generally the most efficient use of an HID's power use. I'll see if I can't find an article on the science behind 600w's compared to 1000w. On it's face a 1000w will absolutely outperform a single 600w, but energy efficiency would go to the 600w. My point is, you can't just say '1kw is the only way to go with HID for flowering end of story". That may be for you, but your way isn't the only way and it most certainly is not the best for everyone.
 
Rocket Soul said:
You can hang your lights much closer, depending on the design. Our diy panels end up 8-12 inches away, or even closer if we are on lower power. They defo can go much closer than hid, but its a very spread out design. Id say the main issue with LED is rather that you must be able to maintain minimum temps and RH which can be tricky in an openspace.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'll admit I'm new to LED and I haven't used a dimmer on any LED that I've used so far, I've got 2 of the same blurple lights and some white strip lights that I bought, and I'm planning on adding a few other led bulbs to fill In any extra space where I need light, my setup is kind of slowly coming together at the moment, and to be honest I'm running mostly fluorescent bulbs currently til I get my other 5x5 room built, shouldn't be but a few more days, half way there, then I'm constructing 3x5 immediately after, all good since I've only got one mother plant and a few clones/seedling I'm keeping alive at the moment.

So yes even I do need to do some of my own homework and tinker around with the LEDs a bit more before I can say absolutely how they are best used or the most efficient way to use them and so on, I'm just saying a lot of what is being offered out there with blurples and led fixtures are not dimmable and not enough attention is being placed on controlling the light intensity for common person to use and adjust to easily, it's only a few brands recently that have made their LED light dimmable, I don't know maybe I need to find a kit that is adjustable then I would hopefully solve the height issue that I first had with LED.
 
Logan Burke said:
Except for the people whose application isn't practical for a 1kw...in fact, 600w HPS's is generally the most efficient use of an HID's power use. I'll see if I can't find an article on the science behind 600w's compared to 1000w. On it's face a 1000w will absolutely outperform a single 600w, but energy efficiency would go to the 600w. My point is, you can't just say '1kw is the only way to go with HID for flowering end of story". That may be for you, but your way isn't the only way and it most certainly is not the best for everyone.
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His case is a 4x8 tent. No need to link BS to me, that same BS is what made me buy 5x 600 watt digis when I started. Personal experiance taught me differant.

If your space can handle 1kws ( his can, easily) then dont use 600s. It's pretty simple.
 
Logan Burke said:
315W would probably be perfect for you...I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the UVC makes you nervous though. If anything, UV spectrums are very beneficial in the flowering phase since they stimulate trichome production as a form of protection from the UV's. Plus, the light from a 315w would easily produce more light than a 400w HPS. Maybe not as heavily red spectrum, but the 3700k bulbs still produces a pretty balanced spectrum of UV, Blue, and Red. That's why I prefer using both HPS and CMH together...the CMH provides the UV, green, and some blue while the HPS blasts them with orange and red. :) Just my setup though, and 2x 315's and 1 1000w HPS in a single 6.5x6.5x6.5 tent does get pretty toasty without the 12,000 btu AC unit I have hooked directly to the intake!
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I am actually very interested in CMH bulbs and the new technology that is being released surrounding them, I actually was hoping that they would release a smaller bulb than the 315w, a 180-200 watt bulb then the light would be even more simple to blend in with other lights in a small space, rather than the CMH needing a center spot in the room canopy it could be spread further to the sides and allow for other spectrums or fixtures to be added conveniently, I know I'm probably splitting hairs, someone here will probably have a better idea than I do, I do enjoy getting technical when it comes to light dispersion, I'm personally not fan of single bulb setups I like broadened light cascade and I just try to emulate the outdoors the best I can in this aspect.
 
mustbetribbin said:
I am actually very interested in CMH bulbs and the new technology that is being released surrounding them, I actually was hoping that they would release a smaller bulb than the 315w, a 180-200 watt bulb then the light would be even more simple to blend in with other lights in a small space, rather than the CMH needing a center spot in the room canopy it could be spread further to the sides and allow for other spectrums or fixtures to be added conveniently, I know I'm probably splitting hairs, someone here will probably have a better idea than I do, I do enjoy getting technical when it comes to light dispersion, I'm personally not fan of single bulb setups I like broadened light cascade and I just try to emulate the outdoors the best I can in this aspect.
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It can depend a lot on the fixture you get as far as them being a center fixture or being more of a side, extra light source. I use my 2 315's on the sides of my tent, letting the 1kw be center stage, but I also use a low profile fixture that has a remote ballast sitting outside my tent. Remote fixtures helps reduce at least 30% of the heat from my canopy as well. The fixtures themselves are only about 12-16inches long and only 6-8 inches wide, so it's fairly small to pack such a large punch! That's the only way I could fit one on each side of my big light. But some of the others, like the Vivosun fixtures, blah...they're huge, and just unwieldly, not to mention weighing close to 20 or 30 pounds where their ballasts are built in. I found my 315w Sun System Neutron relfector (fixture I use) and a remote ballast on amazon for just under 300$ a piece w/ bulbs...not the cheapest, but pretty cheap compared to a lot of other Sun System fixtures. Anyhow, sorry for my rambling buddy lol, if/when you decide to give CMH's a try I think you'll be extremely pleased with it. I personally have always said that CMH is a half way point between good ol' HID and top notch higher dollar COB's and quantum boards, both in cost and efficiency.
 
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growingforfun said:
His case is a 4x8 tent. No need to link BS to me, that same BS is what made me buy 5x 600 watt digis when I started. Personal experiance taught me differant.

If your space can handle 1kws ( his can, easily) then dont use 600s. It's pretty simple.
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Your attitude will dissuade people from agreeing with you alone. Don't call what I may or may not've linked to you BS when you don't even have a clue what it would be outside of mere speculation on your part. Just saying, you're going to have a lot more conflict with that attitude. Anyhow, good luck growing everyone, and good luck Mustbetribbin if you decide to try for CMH. Just msg me if you want any details on the exact fixture that I bought.
 
Logan Burke said:
Your attitude will dissuade people from agreeing with you alone. Don't call what I may or may not've linked to you BS when you don't even have a clue what it would be outside of mere speculation on your part. Just saying, you're going to have a lot more conflict with that attitude. Anyhow, good luck growing everyone, and good luck Mustbetribbin if you decide to try for CMH. Just msg me if you want any details on the exact fixture that I bought.
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Your assuming I havent seen the many articles about "why 600 watt hps is more efficient than 1000 watt hps." I said I've read them. I've seen them. I've seen it spouted over and over. Fact is I've seen them and i dont care to read them again just because you posted the link.

Guess what else can be linked? Why burples are actually good. Theres science backing that as well but in practice we have learned differant is true.

I dont care what people think about my attitude or how i come across, I've tested the 600 watt extensively. I've tested 1kw extensivly. Ive also ran 400 watt. I've tested many many differant makers of bulb and differant spectrum. I know what works and I've been doing this a long time. I've seen countless new growers who say they know everything about why this or that is better than a 1kw hps but then for one reason or another a year or 2 goes by and all the sudden they are using the 1kw hps.

You may notice I never disagreed about cmh though. I think cmh is great and I recommend it.

I just dont think a 600 watt hps in a 4x4 area is going to hold a candle to a 1kw hps running a hortilux super hps.

Hate me all ya want I really dont care, at the end it's his grow an he can do whatever he wants, if he wants the best looking most resin covered bud then he will go with the 1kws. If he think the 600s are better then hes going to get smaller buds that just dont compare.
 
Cmh got one thing on hps, both 600 and 1000w: much less IR which means plants can take higher temps. That along with lower wattage makes heat management easier, but i i have never tried it in a tent.
 
Logan Burke said:
Your attitude will dissuade people from agreeing with you alone. Don't call what I may or may not've linked to you BS when you don't even have a clue what it would be outside of mere speculation on your part. Just saying, you're going to have a lot more conflict with that attitude. Anyhow, good luck growing everyone, and good luck Mustbetribbin if you decide to try for CMH. Just msg me if you want any details on the exact fixture that I bought.
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Thanks for bringing the more compact fixture idea to my attention @Logan Burke, I was kind of stuck on them being a rather large fixture still, but I see now that you have mentioned your success with the smaller reflector and compact design, it changes my mind towards the possibility of owning one in the future, so thanks for that, and for offering further assistance if needed :clap::blsmoke:.

Hey @Rocket Soul so in your opinion is worth it/would you purchase an LED light or LED fixture that was non dimmable?

I was thinking of purchasing some of these bulbs for fill light (link below), but I'm uncertain that these would be dimmable, there are plenty of review mentioning how bright these are so I figured I would ask someone in the know about them.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07R4K63TG/ref=sspa_mw_detail_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.dx.com/p/zhaoyao-ip65-w...hted-led-lamp-warm-white-2020451#.XT4wpL1OnqA

Sorry to the Op was not my original intent to take up your post with LED talk, just kind of while we are on the subject I figured I'd through these out there and see what someone says, is it a complete was of time buying non dimmable LED for use in a confined space?
 
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Logan Burke said:
315W would probably be perfect for you...I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the UVC makes you nervous though. If anything, UV spectrums are very beneficial in the flowering phase since they stimulate trichome production as a form of protection from the UV's. Plus, the light from a 315w would easily produce more light than a 400w HPS. Maybe not as heavily red spectrum, but the 3700k bulbs still produces a pretty balanced spectrum of UV, Blue, and Red. That's why I prefer using both HPS and CMH together...the CMH provides the UV, green, and some blue while the HPS blasts them with orange and red. :) Just my setup though, and 2x 315's and 1 1000w HPS in a single 6.5x6.5x6.5 tent does get pretty toasty without the 12,000 btu AC unit I have hooked directly to the intake!
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If I wasn’t cooling my reflector with cool air and dumping it near another open window I couldn’t use my 1K. But I do cool it. Best investment in a very long time. It allowed me to kick from the 600 to the 1000 with an Eye Hortilux and the difference is incredible. I’ve got friends with LED including one with a really good one and they can’t get the bud weight I do.

That said one of the most well known growers here works for a huge indoor grow operation and they just posted a pic of the operations as they switch to LED. He’s the head grower so it’s gotta involve him. A lot of big money riding there.
 
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