Any Help Appreciated with New Room Design +REP!

roidrage152

roidrage152

Active Member
Hi All,

Setting up my new flower room. Have a little bit of experience with working in other grows and have been kinda delayed setting up my flower room. My veg has been going strong and is fully set up a while, but today I finally cleared the funds to buy the equipment to flip the lights on my girls. I have seen a few different set-ups, many of which I found flawed in many ways, as well as researched a ton of set ups people have posted online so I have some ideas, but would be interested in hearing ideas from people with more experience, and soak in some other points of view. You can see the picture of the lay out I am working with. I've left myself some room to expand, which will probably equate to a good amount of wasted space for now, but here is what I am working with.

-The room is light proofed, and has flat white on the cinderblock walls, and reflective film on the framed walls.
-I have installed the 30 amp service, with a DIY relay/timer with 4x 220v outlets and 4x 110v outlets.
-I also installed several other 110v outlets on multiple 20 amp breakers around the room.
-we are in the cold season right now, ambient temps around 60, will probably be up closer to 70+ in the summer months.

Plants currently ready to flower:
10 Extremely long vegged LA Confidential plants few feet high in 15 gallon pots. Well groomed however, did an extensive trimming and they have filled out again very well.

Equipment I have:
Water cooled CO2 gen (will soon set up with large circulating rez, but can immediately set up with drain to waste)
70 pint Dehum
CAP PPM3 CO2 Monitor/regulator
CAP Environmental controller (with light sensor, independent humidity/temp control outlets, CO2 outlet, and night device outlet)
Decent size commercial space heater

What I'm definitely getting:
4x 8" XXXL Air cooled hoods
4x Magenetic ballasts
4x Hortilux eye HPS Bulbs

My budget will allow in addition:
2-3 8" or more inline fans 700+ CFM
2 Phresh Carbon filters
Air circulating fans
*maybe can scrape up a couple more dollars for any other ideas.

I've been racking my brain for a couple days trying to decide how I want to run my ventilation.

The best set up I can think of and would appreciate feed back on is the following:

One 8" fan pulling air through a passive intake through all 4 hoods from the main area of my basement to another main area of my basement across the room.
One 8"-12" fan sitting on a Carbon filter running 24/7 recirculating air in the room
One 8" fan attached Carbon filter and to temp controller to turn on if temps get too high to blow hot air out of the room.

I'm trying to avoid bringing in outside air because of bugs and such, but there are windows in the main basement area to crack to bring down main basement air temps if needed. I'll put some sort of cheap filter on my passive intakes, 1 for the hood air cooling, and 1 for a regular passive intake with a gravity powered damper. Odor control is a major concern, my neighbors are close.

Will be making considerations all day and hitting the store tonight for shopping.

I feel like maybe I'm over thinking and would love to hear ideas!

 layout.jpg
 
dsmer

dsmer

Well-Known Member
What ever you decide to do, i would recommend venting any of the exhausted air directly outside if possible. i dont recommend venting right back into the other side of the room. the air will get very warm from the lights and your just going to raise the ambient temp in the entire room. The trick is to keep constant fresh circulation. remember to exhaust the air from the highest point possible and bring in your fresh air down low. you sound like you have the right idea though.
 
T

tibberous

Well-Known Member
Not sure what you are trying to do, but it might be overkill? With co2, I wouldn't vent air in or out, just get some oscillating fans to blow it around.

You can have temps up to 99 degrees with co2 if you are using soil. If you are using hydro, things get weird, because the plants can still get to 99, but the water/res has to stay at or below 75 (otherwise it won't hold oxygen and you'll get root rot)

I'd just put in your lights, plants and co2 gen, and a few $15 osc. fans to circulate the air, and see what your temps are running. Basements are great, because the walls / floor absorb heat.
 
roidrage152

roidrage152

Active Member
I guess my concern is for when it gets warmer but u actually might be right I might actually have trouble getting temps up right now. I had kind of already commited to this size hood because i'm working with a friend who already uses these and loves them. Maybe a fan speed controller set low on the hood circulating fan.

The reason why I was thinking of recirculating basement air, is because I beleive that air will stay plenty cold at least for now. I was actually almost to the point of recirculating grow room air through the lights at first and seeing where my temps end up. I can just vent the room if the temps manage to get up too high at any point.

I suppose a starting option might even be to not ventilate the hoods at all for starters and see where I'm at temp wise.
 
F

fred flintstoned

Well-Known Member
Sucking unfiltered air into the hoods is probably not a good idea. It will permeate your house quickly and the only remedy is to release the funk out the window. I'd suggest an 8" fan pulling outside air into the hoods and exhausting it back outside. In winter this air circuit can draw and exhaust into the house cutting down on heating costs.You'll still have radiant heat to deal with and sending this from the filter to outside is the best move. Circulating it through the rest of the basement may work in the coldest part of winter, but I wouldn't count on it, those lights will generate a LOT of btus. My rooms are in an unheated garage using 3600w each and would quickly overheat the garage if the heat was just dumped into the rest of the space. Btw, it's 20 degrees here at night when the lights are on and the insulated boxes I've built for the grow still need AC sometimes.
Your electric service, at 30 amps is probably too small. The lights alone will draw 20 amps @ 220v. At start up there will also be a surge of about 2-3 amps. If all your equipment runs on 220v, you may have enough although you're really pushing the limit. You never want to push any circuit beyond 80% of capacity or your risk of fire goes way up.
Hope this helps,
Fred
 
roidrage152

roidrage152

Active Member
I was trying to avoid bringing in outside air because I'm paranoid of mold and bugs. I've currently set up 1 8" 750 cfm max fan pulling air through the hoods. Temps got to about 80 so I just killed 1 of the lights until I turn my co2 on today. I've heard mixed reviews about just putting a fan directly on my filter. Granted I got a 1000cfm filter with an 8" hydrofarm cheapo fan. it worked like a charm without negative pressure in the room. I may have to tweak a bit for intense flowering smells we"ll see. Another problem with opening windows in the basement is that my neighbors are very close. So sounds and such could be an issue. I have a legal grow but trying to stay low key. The 30 amp service seems to be fine with my lights so far. I'm thinking I'll need a ton of extension cords and to move my ballasts out of the room come summer. I'll also prob need some portable ac. A mini split won't really work for me, my yard is so small and neighbors so close that another condenser outside would be super fishy.
 
F

fred flintstoned

Well-Known Member
Outside doesn't necessarily mean outside the house, just outside the room, growbox, tent, etc. Since your in the basement, maybe you can route the incoming air from a room in the house. I would think it would be easy to unhook a heat duct from a bedroom, block it off and attach your ducting to the open hole in the floor. The same procedure can be used to exhaust into an unused room with a window open.

Again, I caution you on electrical safety. 4x600w is 22 amps @110v. That's 73% of your total. 80%, or 24 amps would be the most a 30 amp service can safely deliver.You will probably be ok if you run all the lights @220v. Keep checking the plugs and wires for heat.

As long as the filter/fan combo is big enough for the room, as yours certainly is, it should eliminate any chance of smells escaping, provided the hoods don't draw any growroom air.

Sounds like your growing some real monsters, have you considered vertical? Imo, the only way to fly with trees.
Good luck,
Fred
 
roidrage152

roidrage152

Active Member
Finally got everything dialed in now. Temps stable at 80 recirculating basement air as planned, however I like your idea come warm months. Definitely gonna have to change something.

I actually have my DIY 30 amp controller wired with 4x 220 outlets and 4x 110v outlets. I calculated 4 lights at 1000w and 2 fans to pull about 24 amps. I'll just put 1 fan on a separate relay if I get worried. Really one fan has been keep my hoods cool to the touch so far still running 24/7. I got a sweet deal on 4 cheap MH bulbs for like 10 bucks each so I decided t bulk up for a week while my girls have the breathing room. I figure I can use cheap bulbs 1 - 2 weeks per crop and not feel like a cheap ass.

Can't wait to flip the lights on these girls. Thanks for the info.

In regard to vert, it's something I have looked Into a decent amount and I like what I see. For now I'm limited by air cooling and at best a cheap ac come summer, so I'm happy with the footprint I can get from the hoods. Probably next big investment will be 2 more 1k xxxl hoods and a veg expansion. I feel like I have a little more room to work with :p.
 
FootClan

FootClan

Well-Known Member
You almost have everything you need to run a "CLOSED LOOP" system all you need really is an A/c and you dont need any exhaust...... The only reason to not run a "closed" loop system over an "open" loop system is the cost factor and since you already bought everything you need to run a closed loop dosent seem to make sense not too.....

You have Heater, you are generating Co2 , you have contoller and censor and dehumidfyer... you can still air cool lights with a "closed" loop system..... Just pull air from outside basement then run it through your ducting past your bulbs/hoods then exhaust that hot air back out the basement..... its called "dedicated" fan for your lights...... You need NO intake NO exhaust,,, You can put a fan up at the celling and connect it to a carbon filter then just filter the air right back into the grow room......

If you are dead set on an "open" loop its better not to recirculate the basement air even though you are supplementing Co2 its still not a good idea....You are better off setting it up right so you can exhaust outside your basement incase later down the line your ambient temps rise or if your Co2 breaks or runs out or you deciede not to run it you will have a big problem runing an open loop system while recycling the same old air without Co2 suplement......

so long story short dont sell your self short, most people on here try and do too much with too little but seems your doing too little with too much......... hope that gives ya some idea...good luck bro
 
FootClan

FootClan

Well-Known Member
tibberous said:
Not sure what you are trying to do, but it might be overkill? With co2, I wouldn't vent air in or out, just get some oscillating fans to blow it around.

You can have temps up to 99 degrees with co2 if you are using soil. If you are using hydro, things get weird, because the plants can still get to 99, but the water/res has to stay at or below 75 (otherwise it won't hold oxygen and you'll get root rot)

I'd just put in your lights, plants and co2 gen, and a few $15 osc. fans to circulate the air, and see what your temps are running. Basements are great, because the walls / floor absorb heat.
Click to expand...

for anyone reading this please dont let your grow room get to 99 degrees no matter how much Co2 you got that ant good...... Ok 85 is about as high as you really wanna go with Co2.......
 
FootClan

FootClan

Well-Known Member
fred flintstoned said:
Sucking unfiltered air into the hoods is probably not a good idea. It will permeate your house quickly and the only remedy is to release the funk out the window. I'd suggest an 8" fan pulling outside air into the hoods and exhausting it back outside. In winter this air circuit can draw and exhaust into the house cutting down on heating costs.You'll still have radiant heat to deal with and sending this from the filter to outside is the best move. Circulating it through the rest of the basement may work in the coldest part of winter, but I wouldn't count on it, those lights will generate a LOT of btus. My rooms are in an unheated garage using 3600w each and would quickly overheat the garage if the heat was just dumped into the rest of the space. Btw, it's 20 degrees here at night when the lights are on and the insulated boxes I've built for the grow still need AC sometimes.
Your electric service, at 30 amps is probably too small. The lights alone will draw 20 amps @ 220v. At start up there will also be a surge of about 2-3 amps. If all your equipment runs on 220v, you may have enough although you're really pushing the limit. You never want to push any circuit beyond 80% of capacity or your risk of fire goes way up.
Hope this helps,
Fred
Click to expand...
+Rep........You tell em......get that air OUTSIDE!!!
 
FootClan

FootClan

Well-Known Member
dsmer said:
What ever you decide to do, i would recommend venting any of the exhausted air directly outside if possible. i dont recommend venting right back into the other side of the room. the air will get very warm from the lights and your just going to raise the ambient temp in the entire room. The trick is to keep constant fresh circulation. remember to exhaust the air from the highest point possible and bring in your fresh air down low. you sound like you have the right idea though.
Click to expand...
+Rep.......More great Advice here........
 
roidrage152

roidrage152

Active Member
What you are saying makes a ton of sense. Because my temps are dialed in right now, I probably won't make a change immediately, but for sure summer will be an issue. I also want to get an idea how much smell might be leaking into my hoods after a full run of flowering before I send any air outside. Also because I'm paranoid about that outside air, especially being so close to neighbors. They are hard core gardeners/animal lovers so who knows what they have in their mulch pile or composter not 30 yards from my house. I'll need to look into some super intake filter options, hypoallergenic/anti-mold/bug blocking. Also don't have a chimney, I have a newer construction house where everything is vented out the side of the house through 4" pvc. Makes it so a grow vent would easily go unnoticed, but would require my taking a saws-all the the side of the crib :shock:. I guess another easier option would be to recirculate and freshing my basement air, so fresher air is available to the grow room. It would help keep me from having to make any major change to a grow room that is finally stable.

I'm not sure what exactly my future cooling options are going to be, but what are your opinions on running completely sealed? I have a controller that can run an exhaust and co2 together conserving (not that I really care about conserving, CO2 is the cheapest thing in my room). I can put a filter on the exhaust fan and just kick that on if temps get too high. I have heard mostly good things about sealed, but some people say fresh O2 into the room is also important and that the plants dont produce enough on their own. I am usually in support of the sealed room idea, but have never fully tried it. I'm rather close now, just a ton of small cracks everywhere.
 
roidrage152

roidrage152

Active Member
While I've heard theres diminishing returns on the benefits of higher CO2, and it would be an issue if you are paying tank prices. But can't you go into the 90s range of temps with CO2 levels around 2k ppm and actually have INCREASED benefit? That is assuming the price of CO2 vs improved yield for whatever benefit there is balances out. I was just thinking for the future, since CO2 costs is not an issue for me, but cooling costs easily could be when temps start going up.

FootClan said:
for anyone reading this please dont let your grow room get to 99 degrees no matter how much Co2 you got that ant good...... Ok 85 is about as high as you really wanna go with Co2.......
Click to expand...
 
FootClan

FootClan

Well-Known Member
roidrage152 said:
While I've heard theres diminishing returns on the benefits of higher CO2, and it would be an issue if you are paying tank prices. But can't you go into the 90s range of temps with CO2 levels around 2k ppm and actually have INCREASED benefit? That is assuming the price of CO2 vs improved yield for whatever benefit there is balances out. I was just thinking for the future, since CO2 costs is not an issue for me, but cooling costs easily could be when temps start going up.[/QUOTE

I will never let my grow room get above 85 i dont give a shit what anyone says...... If you have success at 90 degress then you cant argue with success but for me ill never go above 85.......

i like sealed room and like i said above yu already have almost everything you need to run a sealed room so not running dosent make sense...... The only reason not to run a ssealed is becasue you dont have the money to buy all the shit you need to run one......so you already did the hard part by buying all the pricey stuff so now all thats left is the easy part which is just doing it....lol........get it going and keep us updated...... if you have any sealed room questions just ask.......
Click to expand...
 
Fnominon

Fnominon

Active Member
FootClan is right I am running a 5k sealed and all your really missing is a 2 Ton AC. Unless your living in the arctic you shouldn't have to worry about heating your grow, I am able to heat my entire house in 20f degree temperatures solely off of my air cooled lights.
 
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