America Before The Entitlement State

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America Before The Entitlement State

Yaron Brook and Don Watkins, Contributor





Reacting to calls for cuts in entitlement programs, House Democrat Henry Waxman fumed: “The Republicans want us to repeal the twentieth century.” Sound bites don’t get much better than that. After all, the world before the twentieth century–before the New Deal, the New Frontier, the Great Society–was a dark, dangerous, heartless place where hordes of Americans starved in the streets.


Except it wasn’t and they didn’t. The actual history of America shows something else entirely: picking your neighbors’ pockets is not a necessity of survival. Before America’s entitlement state, free individuals planned for and coped with tough times, taking responsibility for their own lives.


In the 19th century, even though capitalism had only existed for a short time, and had just started putting a dent in pre-capitalism’s legacy of poverty, the vast, vast majority of Americans were already able to support their own lives through their own productive work. Only a tiny fraction of a sliver of a minority depended on assistance and aid–and there was no shortage of aid available to help that minority.


But in a culture that revered individual responsibility and regarded being “on the dole” as shameful, formal charity was almost always a last resort. Typically people who hit tough times would first dip into their savings. They might take out loans and get their hands on whatever commercial credit was available. If that wasn’t enough, they might insist that other family members enter the workforce. And that was just the start.


“Those in need,” historian Walter Trattner writes, “. . . looked first to family, kin, and neighbors for aid, including the landlord, who sometimes deferred the rent; the local butcher or grocer, who frequently carried them for a while by allowing bills to go unpaid; and the local saloonkeeper, who often came to their aid by providing loans and outright gifts, including free meals and, on occasion, temporary jobs. Next, the needy sought assistance from various agencies in the community–those of their own devising, such as churches or religious groups, social and fraternal associations, mutual aid societies, local ethnic groups, and trade unions.”


One of the most fascinating phenomena to arise during this time were mutual aid societies–organizations that let people insure against the very risks that entitlement programs would later claim to address. These societies were not charities, but private associations of individuals. Those who chose to join would voluntarily pay membership dues in return for a defined schedule of benefits, which, depending on the society, could include life insurance, permanent disability, sickness and accident, old-age, or funeral benefits.


Mutual aid societies weren’t private precursors to the entitlement state, with its one-size-fits-all schemes like Social Security and Medicare. Because the societies were private, they offered a wide range of options to fit a wide range of needs. And because they were voluntary, individuals joined only when the programs made financial sense to them. How many of us would throw dollar bills down the Social Security money pit if we had a choice?


Only when other options were exhausted would people turn to formal private charities. By the mid-nineteenth century, groups aiming to help widows, orphans, and other “worthy poor” were launched in every major city in America. There were some government welfare programs, but they were minuscule compared to private efforts.


In 1910, in New York State, for instance, 151 private benevolent groups provided care for children, and 216 provided care for adults or adults with children. If you were homeless in Chicago in 1933, for example, you could find shelter at one of the city’s 614 YMCAs, or one of its 89 Salvation Army barracks, or one of its 75 Goodwill Industries dormitories.


“In fact,” writes Trattner, “so rapidly did private agencies multiply that before long America’s larger cities had what to many people was an embarrassing number of them. Charity directories took as many as 100 pages to list and describe the numerous voluntary agencies that sought to alleviate misery, and combat every imaginable emergency.”


It all makes you wonder: If Americans could thrive without an entitlement state a century ago, how much easier would it be today, when Americans are so rich that 95 percent of our “poor” own color TVs? But we won’t get rid of the entitlement state until we get rid of today’s widespread entitlement mentality, and return to a society in which individual responsibility is the watchword.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/objectivist/2011/11/18/america-before-the-entitlement-state/
 

tomcatjones

Active Member
America Before The Entitlement State

Yaron Brook and Don Watkins, Contributor





Reacting to calls for cuts in entitlement programs, House Democrat Henry Waxman fumed: “The Republicans want us to repeal the twentieth century.” Sound bites don’t get much better than that. After all, the world before the twentieth century–before the New Deal, the New Frontier, the Great Society–was a dark, dangerous, heartless place where hordes of Americans starved in the streets.


Except it wasn’t and they didn’t. The actual history of America shows something else entirely: picking your neighbors’ pockets is not a necessity of survival. Before America’s entitlement state, free individuals planned for and coped with tough times, taking responsibility for their own lives.


In the 19th century, even though capitalism had only existed for a short time, and had just started putting a dent in pre-capitalism’s legacy of poverty, the vast, vast majority of Americans were already able to support their own lives through their own productive work. Only a tiny fraction of a sliver of a minority depended on assistance and aid–and there was no shortage of aid available to help that minority.


But in a culture that revered individual responsibility and regarded being “on the dole” as shameful, formal charity was almost always a last resort. Typically people who hit tough times would first dip into their savings. They might take out loans and get their hands on whatever commercial credit was available. If that wasn’t enough, they might insist that other family members enter the workforce. And that was just the start.


“Those in need,” historian Walter Trattner writes, “. . . looked first to family, kin, and neighbors for aid, including the landlord, who sometimes deferred the rent; the local butcher or grocer, who frequently carried them for a while by allowing bills to go unpaid; and the local saloonkeeper, who often came to their aid by providing loans and outright gifts, including free meals and, on occasion, temporary jobs. Next, the needy sought assistance from various agencies in the community–those of their own devising, such as churches or religious groups, social and fraternal associations, mutual aid societies, local ethnic groups, and trade unions.”


One of the most fascinating phenomena to arise during this time were mutual aid societies–organizations that let people insure against the very risks that entitlement programs would later claim to address. These societies were not charities, but private associations of individuals. Those who chose to join would voluntarily pay membership dues in return for a defined schedule of benefits, which, depending on the society, could include life insurance, permanent disability, sickness and accident, old-age, or funeral benefits.


Mutual aid societies weren’t private precursors to the entitlement state, with its one-size-fits-all schemes like Social Security and Medicare. Because the societies were private, they offered a wide range of options to fit a wide range of needs. And because they were voluntary, individuals joined only when the programs made financial sense to them. How many of us would throw dollar bills down the Social Security money pit if we had a choice?


Only when other options were exhausted would people turn to formal private charities. By the mid-nineteenth century, groups aiming to help widows, orphans, and other “worthy poor” were launched in every major city in America. There were some government welfare programs, but they were minuscule compared to private efforts.


In 1910, in New York State, for instance, 151 private benevolent groups provided care for children, and 216 provided care for adults or adults with children. If you were homeless in Chicago in 1933, for example, you could find shelter at one of the city’s 614 YMCAs, or one of its 89 Salvation Army barracks, or one of its 75 Goodwill Industries dormitories.


“In fact,” writes Trattner, “so rapidly did private agencies multiply that before long America’s larger cities had what to many people was an embarrassing number of them. Charity directories took as many as 100 pages to list and describe the numerous voluntary agencies that sought to alleviate misery, and combat every imaginable emergency.”


It all makes you wonder: If Americans could thrive without an entitlement state a century ago, how much easier would it be today, when Americans are so rich that 95 percent of our “poor” own color TVs? But we won’t get rid of the entitlement state until we get rid of today’s widespread entitlement mentality, and return to a society in which individual responsibility is the watchword.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/objectivist/2011/11/18/america-before-the-entitlement-state/
lol... so the real problem as i understand your post is:

how do we get the other 5 percent of poor people to own color tvs?

i think we can do it if we work as a society.

BRING COLOR TO THE POOR!
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
let me clear something up for these guys,

before social welfare, the poor ate bread and water every day, worked for 1-2 dollars per day and worked 14-16 hour days since you turned 11 or 12..... illiteracy rates were through the roof...... poverty among elders was rampant..... soldiers who were maimed in combat came back to scavenge on the streets.....

i'll keep saying it... want a society without a social safety net? go to haiti, or somalia, or the Congo....
 

beardo

Well-Known Member
let me clear something up for these guys,

before social welfare, the poor ate bread and water every day, worked for 1-2 dollars per day and worked 14-16 hour days since you turned 11 or 12..... illiteracy rates were through the roof...... poverty among elders was rampant..... soldiers who were maimed in combat came back to scavenge on the streets.....

i'll keep saying it... want a society without a social safety net? go to haiti, or somalia, or the Congo....
The 1-2 dollar pay was a pretty good wadge though, and didn't the church provide a social safety net?
 

dukeanthony

New Member
let me clear something up for these guys,

before social welfare, the poor ate bread and water every day, worked for 1-2 dollars per day and worked 14-16 hour days since you turned 11 or 12..... illiteracy rates were through the roof...... poverty among elders was rampant..... soldiers who were maimed in combat came back to scavenge on the streets.....

i'll keep saying it... want a society without a social safety net? go to haiti, or somalia, or the Congo....
I am old enough to remember disabled Vets selling pencils outside of Sears. Because THAT was the only way a dude with no legs on a mechanics roll around could survive
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
My parents are Depression era kids. They lost a lot of family members back then from illness and malnutrition. Yeah, it wasn't all that great. On rare occasions they talk about what it was like. It used to keep me up at night.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
My parents are Depression era kids. They lost a lot of family members back then from illness and malnutrition. Yeah, it wasn't all that great. On rare occasions they talk about what it was like. It used to keep me up at night.
Sure but if you ignore 90% of the reality of those times and only pick and choose a couple details you want to focus on, it was awesome!

Back then they had the right idea. Today we give too many people a free pass in life. Like children for example. Why shouldn't a 9 year old pick him self up by his bootstraps and work 15 hours a day in a factory? TBH I'm tired of all these lazy children who never want to put in their 90 hours a week of work.

The insane luxuries demanded by Americas working class today need to stop. They want to work in a safe place AND have enough money for food and rent. Sorry, but that sounds like a handout to me. Exactly how much of Mr Carnegie's money do these workers think they're entitled to?

We'd all be better off if we just got rid of all these silly regulations. I'm sure if we did the job creators would all let us work in their sweatshops.
 

Carne Seca

Well-Known Member
That sounds just like a Newt Gingrich speech I watched (while constantly retching) today. He wants children to work as employees in the schools they attend. I bet you all my plug nickels that this won't apply to the children of rich parents. Only those of us who are getting poorer and poorer every day. You know, the 99%
 

Dizzle Frost

Well-Known Member
America Before The Entitlement State

Yaron Brook and Don Watkins, Contributor





Reacting to calls for cuts in entitlement programs, House Democrat Henry Waxman fumed: “The Republicans want us to repeal the twentieth century.” Sound bites don’t get much better than that. After all, the world before the twentieth century–before the New Deal, the New Frontier, the Great Society–was a dark, dangerous, heartless place where hordes of Americans starved in the streets.


Except it wasn’t and they didn’t. The actual history of America shows something else entirely: picking your neighbors’ pockets is not a necessity of survival. Before America’s entitlement state, free individuals planned for and coped with tough times, taking responsibility for their own lives.


In the 19th century, even though capitalism had only existed for a short time, and had just started putting a dent in pre-capitalism’s legacy of poverty, the vast, vast majority of Americans were already able to support their own lives through their own productive work. Only a tiny fraction of a sliver of a minority depended on assistance and aid–and there was no shortage of aid available to help that minority.


But in a culture that revered individual responsibility and regarded being “on the dole” as shameful, formal charity was almost always a last resort. Typically people who hit tough times would first dip into their savings. They might take out loans and get their hands on whatever commercial credit was available. If that wasn’t enough, they might insist that other family members enter the workforce. And that was just the start.


“Those in need,” historian Walter Trattner writes, “. . . looked first to family, kin, and neighbors for aid, including the landlord, who sometimes deferred the rent; the local butcher or grocer, who frequently carried them for a while by allowing bills to go unpaid; and the local saloonkeeper, who often came to their aid by providing loans and outright gifts, including free meals and, on occasion, temporary jobs. Next, the needy sought assistance from various agencies in the community–those of their own devising, such as churches or religious groups, social and fraternal associations, mutual aid societies, local ethnic groups, and trade unions.”


One of the most fascinating phenomena to arise during this time were mutual aid societies–organizations that let people insure against the very risks that entitlement programs would later claim to address. These societies were not charities, but private associations of individuals. Those who chose to join would voluntarily pay membership dues in return for a defined schedule of benefits, which, depending on the society, could include life insurance, permanent disability, sickness and accident, old-age, or funeral benefits.


Mutual aid societies weren’t private precursors to the entitlement state, with its one-size-fits-all schemes like Social Security and Medicare. Because the societies were private, they offered a wide range of options to fit a wide range of needs. And because they were voluntary, individuals joined only when the programs made financial sense to them. How many of us would throw dollar bills down the Social Security money pit if we had a choice?


Only when other options were exhausted would people turn to formal private charities. By the mid-nineteenth century, groups aiming to help widows, orphans, and other “worthy poor” were launched in every major city in America. There were some government welfare programs, but they were minuscule compared to private efforts.


In 1910, in New York State, for instance, 151 private benevolent groups provided care for children, and 216 provided care for adults or adults with children. If you were homeless in Chicago in 1933, for example, you could find shelter at one of the city’s 614 YMCAs, or one of its 89 Salvation Army barracks, or one of its 75 Goodwill Industries dormitories.


“In fact,” writes Trattner, “so rapidly did private agencies multiply that before long America’s larger cities had what to many people was an embarrassing number of them. Charity directories took as many as 100 pages to list and describe the numerous voluntary agencies that sought to alleviate misery, and combat every imaginable emergency.”


It all makes you wonder: If Americans could thrive without an entitlement state a century ago, how much easier would it be today, when Americans are so rich that 95 percent of our “poor” own color TVs? But we won’t get rid of the entitlement state until we get rid of today’s widespread entitlement mentality, and return to a society in which individual responsibility is the watchword.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/objectivist/2011/11/18/america-before-the-entitlement-state/
[video=youtube;-O_l4ZP8dyQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-O_l4ZP8dyQ[/video]
 

RalphCurtis

Member
America Before The Entitlement State

Yaron Brook and Don Watkins, Contributor
f Americans could thrive without an entitlement state a century ago, how much easier would it be today, when Americans are so rich that 95 percent of our “poor” own color TVs? But we won’t get rid of the entitlement state until we get rid of today’s widespread entitlement mentality, and return to a society in which individual responsibility is the watchword.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/objectivist/2011/11/18/america-before-the-entitlement-state/
Like many American conservatives you seem to feel ahhem...entitled to being seen as right. This is often reflected in the falshoohds and contorted arguments you make..and you do that a lot. Plus your use of GOPer formula prose is a bit tiring as well.

Now..let us see. Americans did NOT live well..particularly the elderly prior to Social Security. Many elederly..up to 50 % or more lived in poverty once past their working days. Americans have always been averse to what you pladatudenosly call the Entitelment State and wanted a system they paid into. That is why they are happy with SS or Medicare..it is as you GOPers used to say..THEIR MONEY!!!

But enouigh of all this. Your arguments are not founded in American Conservatism but FOX news Reublicanism. Nothing original..just midless back spewing of what you have been told to think. Go for it..you are ENTITLED to your opinion..but why not take it to a forum that gives a crap about that junk. THis is certainly not such a place.

You also come across as a bit of a blowhard My Friend.. You dont make sugstions, you have tenor that demands folks agree with you..and I being a bit more intelgent than you..would never do that.

Sorry about my spelling..English is not my first language..but before you get all xenophopic..I earned a Silver Star, 3 Bronze Stars and 3 Purple Hearts in the US Army. Aint that a kick in your Limbaugh lovin pants!
 

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
Like many American conservatives you seem to feel ahhem...entitled to being seen as right. This is often reflected in the falshoohds and contorted arguments you make..and you do that a lot. Plus your use of GOPer formula prose is a bit tiring as well.

Now..let us see. Americans did NOT live well..particularly the elderly prior to Social Security. Many elederly..up to 50 % or more lived in poverty once past their working days. Americans have always been averse to what you pladatudenosly call the Entitelment State and wanted a system they paid into. That is why they are happy with SS or Medicare..it is as you GOPers used to say..THEIR MONEY!!!

But enouigh of all this. Your arguments are not founded in American Conservatism but FOX news Reublicanism. Nothing original..just midless back spewing of what you have been told to think. Go for it..you are ENTITLED to your opinion..but why not take it to a forum that gives a crap about that junk. THis is certainly not such a place.

You also come across as a bit of a blowhard My Friend.. You dont make sugstions, you have tenor that demands folks agree with you..and I being a bit more intelgent than you..would never do that.

Sorry about my spelling..English is not my first language..but before you get all xenophopic..I earned a Silver Star, 3 Bronze Stars and 3 Purple Hearts in the US Army. Aint that a kick in your Limbaugh lovin pants!

I did love how you claimed to be more intelligent but proved you aren't, all in the same sentence.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
"“Those in need,” historian Walter Trattner writes, “. . . looked first to family, kin, and neighbors for aid, including the landlord, who sometimes deferred the rent; the local butcher or grocer, who frequently carried them for a while by allowing bills to go unpaid; and the local saloonkeeper, who often came to their aid by providing loans and outright gifts, including free meals and, on occasion, temporary jobs. Next, the needy sought assistance from various agencies in the community–those of their own devising, such as churches or religious groups, social and fraternal associations, mutual aid societies, local ethnic groups, and trade unions.”


So, Trattner presumes that we all are still geographicaly if not emotionaly still close to family, or kin (isn't that the same?) or neighbors, we aren't. I challenge the majority of you to ask your neigbors for a cup of sugar let alone a helping hand. Defered rent? hardly likely in this day and age. Ask for your local (regional chain) grocer to extend you some credit and see exactly how far that might get you. Find me a "saloon keeper" that will extend you a looan that is not usurous.

Here is a small hint for our conservative friends who pine for the good old days - we are not an agrarian society of 100 million any more. We number three times that and we live in cities, we don't much grow our own food anymore, our banks are multinationals, our stores are national and faceless corporations play a large part in what we do, what we owe and where we go. Those idilic times were not actually so idilic, we had far shorter life expectances and most of us lived brutish, diseased, accident prone little lives.

Sometimes I marvel at how many conservatives dream of the wonderland of a past that never was.
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
Like many American conservatives you seem to feel ahhem...entitled to being seen as right. This is often reflected in the falshoohds and contorted arguments you make..and you do that a lot. Plus your use of GOPer formula prose is a bit tiring as well.

Now..let us see. Americans did NOT live well..particularly the elderly prior to Social Security. Many elederly..up to 50 % or more lived in poverty once past their working days. Americans have always been averse to what you pladatudenosly call the Entitelment State and wanted a system they paid into. That is why they are happy with SS or Medicare..it is as you GOPers used to say..THEIR MONEY!!!

But enouigh of all this. Your arguments are not founded in American Conservatism but FOX news Reublicanism. Nothing original..just midless back spewing of what you have been told to think. Go for it..you are ENTITLED to your opinion..but why not take it to a forum that gives a crap about that junk. THis is certainly not such a place.

You also come across as a bit of a blowhard My Friend.. You dont make sugstions, you have tenor that demands folks agree with you..and I being a bit more intelgent than you..would never do that.

Sorry about my spelling..English is not my first language..but before you get all xenophopic..I earned a Silver Star, 3 Bronze Stars and 3 Purple Hearts in the US Army. Aint that a kick in your Limbaugh lovin pants!
^^^ What an arrogant rant! This could only come from a smarmy, sniveling, pocket-picking progressive. And by the way, your entire rant is nothing more than progressive talking points. And no ... I am not a Republican. So, go pound sand.
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
^^^ What an arrogant rant! This could only come from a smarmy, sniveling, pocket-picking progressive. And by the way, your entire rant is nothing more than progressive talking points. And no ... I am not a Republican. So, go pound sand.
progressive talking points?? more like history...

i point you to a pretty technical study on the effects of social security expenditure on elderly poverty rates...

http://www.nber.org/aginghealth/summer04/w10466.html

i warn you in advance it'll cost you $5.

i mean you can try to dismantle the methodology instead of attacking the author, if you can...

from the summary:

Second, poverty rates are strongly cyclical - rising during recessions and falling during economic expansions - for the non-elderly but not for the elderly, highlighting the protective effect of Social Security.
good luck.
 
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