medicineman
New Member
Viva la legalization!
Alright Barack Obama supporters, now what?
- Thread starter dknob
- Start date
Doctor Pot
Well-Known Member
Who's that, John Milton? I think he might be talking about Milton Friedman. Still, I have to say that making government decisions based purely on ideology is generally a bad idea. You need to look at both the short and long term effects on the country that will result from those decisions.
medicineman
New Member
Exactly. I think Obama has that capability, he actually is intelligent.
ViRedd
New Member
That's exactly right, Dr. Pot. The problem is, politics is power and money driven. We are constantly dealing with the unintended consequences of policies pushed forward by the "Do Gooders." The housing debacle and the collapse of the lending institutions is a prime example.
Vi
CrackerJax
New Member
Free and open markets are the only way to sustained prosperity. Any deviation becomes less efficient and more costly.
out.
out.
Doctor Pot
Well-Known Member
Practically every serious economist I've heard from has said that the only thing that could have prevented the housing bubble is increased regulation in the financial sector, concerning mortgage-backed securities. However, the Democrats didn't push for regulation because they were happy that so many people were able to get houses and Republicans didn't regulate it because they oppose regulation in general. But in this situation, only a few economists were sounding alarms, and these guys were the doomsayers who were always sounding alarms and weren't usually right.
Doctor Pot
Well-Known Member
See, this is a good example of pure ideology.
The problem with purely free markets is that you get some people who collaborate (whether intentionally or not) to bid up the price of a stock or commodity, and then when other people get on board, they sell what they have, the commodity price plummets, they make boatloads and screw the later investors.
Regulation is often needed because of the many situations that can arise in which people end up screwed despite everyone acting in their own interests. You learn about that stuff in basic economics.
ViRedd
New Member
Well, I dare say that you need to hear from some more serious economists ... at least some that are not of the Keynesian school.
The Democrats didn't push for regulation because they were on the take from Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. Sen. Chris Dodd, the head of the banking committee was the largest offender along with Barney Frank ... and even Barak Obama.
The Republicans ... G. Bush and Sen. McCain tried to get congress to put regulations in place to stop the unsound mortgage backing at Freddie and Fannie, but were blocked by the Democrat majority. The housing debacle was caused by the "progressives" (socialists) in our government ... the liberal congress and senate, with their mantra that "everyone has the right to home ownership."
Vi
Doctor Pot
Well-Known Member
By 'Keynesian school' do you mean anyone still alive that has or recently had any actual responsibility in the financial industry? Do you know of any economists who disagree? (note: Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, et al. are not actually economists)Well, I dare say that you need to hear from some more serious economists ... at least some that are not of the Keynesian school.
Everyone does have the right to own a home... if they can pay for it. And Fannie and Freddie weren't the major cause of the housing bubble, check out this graph:
The problem was asset-backed securities, which spiked starting around 2003. Fannie and Freddie were actually losing their share of the housing market since then.
CrackerJax
New Member
That's a nice meaningless graph. It was deregulation which helped lessen the blow of Govt. intervention in the markets son. I've seen your kind before. I call them "squirrelers". You dig an dig and copy paste without the background knowledge of where the info is coming from and in what context. Without a foundational economic principle education, you sway to and fro with whatever data you can shovel up, regardless of accuracy. It sure seems accurate to you though doesn't it?
Free and open markets will outperform ANY other model. Fred & fannie were a LARGE causal factor in the credit crunch. Clinton and gang along with soft headed Carter brought us this slow motion nightmare. Congress was in denial although the President appealed to same congress that there was trouble brewing.
out.
Free and open markets will outperform ANY other model. Fred & fannie were a LARGE causal factor in the credit crunch. Clinton and gang along with soft headed Carter brought us this slow motion nightmare. Congress was in denial although the President appealed to same congress that there was trouble brewing.
out.
Doctor Pot
Well-Known Member
The price of gold has actually plummeted lately. I'm not sure what the object of your post was, but I thought I'd mention that.
I know all about John Maynard Keynes, if that's what you're talking about. 100% free and open markets might sound nice, but they do lead to a vicious boom/bust cycle by nature, at least when scaled up to economies of the size we have today. Monopolies and trusts are another undesirable yet inevitable by-product of free markets.That's a nice meaningless graph. It was deregulation which helped lessen the blow of Govt. intervention in the markets son. I've seen your kind before. I call them "squirrelers". You dig an dig and copy paste without the background knowledge of where the info is coming from and in what context. Without a foundational economic principle education, you sway to and fro with whatever data you can shovel up, regardless of accuracy. It sure seems accurate to you though doesn't it?
Free and open markets will outperform ANY other model. Fred & fannie were a LARGE causal factor in the credit crunch. Clinton and gang along with soft headed Carter brought us this slow motion nightmare. Congress was in denial although the President appealed to same congress that there was trouble brewing.
out.
You're just going through the motions of an ideologue. Free markets sound like a good idea to you, therefore they must be the answer.
ViRedd
New Member
Free markets have natural, short lived expansions and contractions. Government interference causes the "vicious boom/bust" cycles you refer to. The root cause of the Great Depression of the 1930s and our present debacle was misguided monetary policies of the Federal Reserve and monetary manipulation by government fiat.
Which economists are you going to believe ... Robert Reich or Friedrich Hayek?
Vi
medicineman
New Member
Oh, Now I get it, it was all the Democrats fault, Spin-spin-spin, your hero Bush had nothing to do with it, it was basically Carter and Clintons fault, Spin-spin-spin, What a load of crap!That's a nice meaningless graph. It was deregulation which helped lessen the blow of Govt. intervention in the markets son. I've seen your kind before. I call them "squirrelers". You dig an dig and copy paste without the background knowledge of where the info is coming from and in what context. Without a foundational economic principle education, you sway to and fro with whatever data you can shovel up, regardless of accuracy. It sure seems accurate to you though doesn't it?
Free and open markets will outperform ANY other model. Fred & fannie were a LARGE causal factor in the credit crunch. Clinton and gang along with soft headed Carter brought us this slow motion nightmare. Congress was in denial although the President appealed to same congress that there was trouble brewing.
out.
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
everyone says it was them but here have a look at this if you believe it was them that took down the towers.
YouTube - Loose Change 2nd Edition (Full)
medicineman
New Member
How can you take anyone serious that spells Girl, GURL?
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
lol i think my 9 year old spells girl like that.
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
Why is it that everyone is trying to save everybody else children? People need to worry about their own children before we start worrying about the rest of the world. That doesn't go for just the US it goes for the entire world. Worry about your own children and your own people suffering in your own country before you start talking about people living in their own feces. The US has tried and tried again to help them but you can not help someone that doesn't want to help themselves. Sorry thats a sour subject with me. I believe that we all have to take care of our own first before we can think about helping anyone else. If we all helped our own then there probly wouldnt even be a problem. IMHO
CrackerJax
New Member
Spin works in all directions, you should know that, right?
I lay fault where the numbers and data lead me. I have no party ideology or loyalty to protect.
In the case of the real estate meltdown, it lies squarely at the feet of Carter, Clinton & minions.
Just because the media and Dem's have successfully spun the blame away from them does not change the causal facts. This is the dangerous policy of consensus governing that endangers us all. By allowing blame to be shifted and rewarding the perps, we now will likely take off in an economic direction which will not be rewarding to anyone. Accept the medicine man...... (<----get it?
)out.
SlowToker
Well-Known Member
If you can use Google and Spell it close you will see it all started with Clinton.
And the rest of them haven't done crap to fix it. Allen Greenspand (spelling?) lowwered rates to low for too long. Let's face it, there was no good choice this year. Both parties sucked big time. People voted for the person they thought would screw it up the least. And the stoners will get jack nothing from either party as we have gotten for years.
And the rest of them haven't done crap to fix it. Allen Greenspand (spelling?) lowwered rates to low for too long. Let's face it, there was no good choice this year. Both parties sucked big time. People voted for the person they thought would screw it up the least. And the stoners will get jack nothing from either party as we have gotten for years.