All leaves rusting and burnt . . . 707 Headband needs your help!

707 Headband
Indoor, Secret Jardin DR150
2x600w HPS in XtraSun 6" reflectors, bulbs ~10" from canopy, not at all hot by the 'hand test'
68-85deg F (I know 85 is too hot; cannot currently affect further improvement, but this seems very unlikely as the cause of the problem with which I'm concerned in this post)
40-50% humidity
#3 Smart Pots
Fox Farm full line (liquid and soluble fertilizers)
Feed each morning with half-strength nutes plus 1tsp Grandma's molasses/gal, occasional DynaGro ProTekt to aide in plant hardiness, always pH'd to 6-6.5 AFTER mixing
(Water from tap, left to evaporate chlorine for at least 48 hours)





When I started to notice rusty/burnt spots on this 707 Headband, I assumed (and have been proven an ass ) that because I'm using Fox Farm's Ocean Forest along with their full line of fertilizers including the solubles, that I was seeing a calcium deficiency.

I began using a CalMag supplement and expected gradual improvement, but instead saw a fairly rapid worsening of the condition. Less than 2 weeks after the initial symptoms, you can see that the few remaining fan leaves on the top 1/3rd of the plant are severely damaged (the other 2/3 have been removed because they were as bad as the worse ones you can see a bit lower on the plant).

So I flushed with 3 gallons of water I'm using and found that the runoff pH was well below 5 (using reagent solution, so not sure of exact pH, but the water tested a fairly reddish orange). The damaged leaves continued their downward spiral and I expect them to continue getting worse.

I pH my solution after adding nutrients to between 6.0 and 6.5; what could cause the runoff pH to be so much lower than either the food or the medium?

The good news is, I've noticed quite a few (new?) sugar leaves coming in on the buds; can I take this as a sign that the worst is behind me and that while the damaged leaves are destined to die, these new ones being healthy means I'm on the right track?


+Rep for helpful responses

Here's a look at the same plant 22 days earlier. On one hand, it seems the issue 'moved fast'. On the other, I 'need' to be able to get shit like this sorted out in less than three weeks.

Are the early yellowing spots in the closeups to be a clear symptom that could have been corrected before reaching the point of no return?

Using tap water you shouldn't have a Cal/Mag problem...

Add some dolomite lime to your soil (scrape top layer of soil with fork, don't hit roots. sprinkle some of the lime on top [2tbps per gallon of soil] and mix it in.). Aside from that, don't use any nute, just use the tap water. Just my 2 cents, but it's what I would do.

Bwpz said:

Using tap water you shouldn't have a Cal/Mag problem...

Add some dolomite lime to your soil (scrape top layer of soil with fork, don't hit roots. sprinkle some of the lime on top [2tbps per gallon of soil] and mix it in.). Aside from that, don't use any nute, just use the tap water. Just my 2 cents, but it's what I would do.

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Dolomite lime is used for calcium and magnesium along with pH buffering, no?

Are you saying that you only use tap water for your entire grow, or did that you don't use a CalMag supplement because you use the lime?

infrared said:

Dolomite lime is used for calcium and magnesium along with pH buffering, no?

Are you saying that you only use tap water for your entire grow, or did that you don't use a CalMag supplement because you use the lime?

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Well if you were using distilled water is when CalMag would be helpful, but those nutrients already come in tap water. The dolomite lime would help stabilize your pH, and help with CalMag a lil bit as well, since you seemed to be worried about it in the first place.

Bwpz said:

Well if you were using distilled water is when CalMag would be helpful, but those nutrients already come in tap water. The dolomite lime would help stabilize your pH, and help with CalMag a lil bit as well, since you seemed to be worried about it in the first place.

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Yep...I'm def going to work in some lime with my FFOF next time around (only got a week, two weeks left tops on this go-round).

In looking through my copy of Marijuana Garden Saver, the closest problem I can see is a calcium deficiency, but I can't say that my photos look exactly like any of the examples in that book.

Can anyone tell me what kind of problem I was experiencing here?

uh, some sort of nute problem. If the ph is off for weeks at a time, alll sorts of stuff happens.
I have no meter for ph, I just am very careful what I add to my spring water, and how often. I dont add anything to the soil for a full month typically. Once its rooted, and its been a month since I moved it, I slowly, over 3 weeks up nute doses once every 3 waterings (still not at 100%) altering with molasses one out of three and plain water the other, maybe an extra plain water sometimes.
Theres no return for those plants. IMO a flush earlier may have heloed but no promise there, its tough to save a plant

rocknratm said:

uh, some sort of nute problem. If the ph is off for weeks at a time, alll sorts of stuff happens.
I have no meter for ph, I just am very careful what I add to my spring water, and how often. I dont add anything to the soil for a full month typically. Once its rooted, and its been a month since I moved it, I slowly, over 3 weeks up nute doses once every 3 waterings (still not at 100%) altering with molasses one out of three and plain water the other, maybe an extra plain water sometimes.
Theres no return for those plants. IMO a flush earlier may have heloed but no promise there, its tough to save a plant

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Essentially, I let my ego get the best of me here. I have posted here including some with photos between now and then . . . hell, I already took the photos when I had the first signs, copied them to my PC and then just went right on ahead and only posted the near-harvest photos I was proud of

I'm glad it was you, rock, who both helped me figure out the good stuff and then came in to add some words here; really got me thinking about how this happened and what I did wrong:

-made an (apparently inaccurate) assumption about what was going on
-waited too long to take the first corrective measures
-waited too long to check runoff pH
which means I
-waited too long to flush
*because of waiting too long to get help and take the appropriate action, I'm left looking back wondering what happened when I was ignoring a relatively long time period of feedback from this poor girl
-have been using a reagent solution to pH my nutes between 6 and 6.5 every time, but I'm now going to get a combo meter and an RO filter because I also believe my tap water to be pretty hard, even if I do take the time to evaporate the chlorine out for a couple days (who knows what kinda crap in my tap water could have contributed to this?)

I'm going to do more of a proper journal when I start another grow once this one's finished. That way I can provide some entertainment and bud porn while hopefully getting some helpful feedback.

The runoff test for dirt isn't very accurate I still check it but isn't accurate fox farm says the same thing here's the link. Its the 6th paragraph down under "helpful hints"~
Your plants could be under fed? This is common in flowering the plant needs more nutes but a lot of growers don't wanna to burn'em.
http://blog.foxfarmfertilizer.com/soils/

Heat burn for sure, i know you say it aint but thats a bad case of heat burn if ever i saw one. Most likely too much ferts as well. None of those leaves look deficient to me. Dont lower temps then smoke some grade 'B' bud dude.

Cal/mag!lol! If you had that problem bad you wouldnt even be at this stage now. Peace

Kingrow1 said:

Heat burn for sure, i know you say it aint but thats a bad case of heat burn if ever i saw one. Most likely too much ferts as well. None of those leaves look deficient to me. Dont lower temps then smoke some grade 'B' bud dude.

Cal/mag!lol! If you had that problem bad you wouldnt even be at this stage now. Peace

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Heat burn, not for sure at all. Other plants in good shape (albeit with nugs a bit too airy for AAA porn status) in the same environment, with no part of any plant closer than 10" from the lights.

Light burn because of a sloppy application of a foliar spray to fight PM? Seems perhaps more likely. But for sheer heat to have caused all this damage; impossible. I'll go ahead and tip my cap to you though because I'll be much more careful with how/when (if?) I spray in the future.

Not sure what you mean with the cal/mag comment . . .

infrared said:

Heat burn, not for sure at all. Other plants in good shape (albeit with nugs a bit too airy for AAA porn status) in the same environment, with no part of any plant closer than 10" from the lights.

Light burn because of a sloppy application of a foliar spray to fight PM? Seems perhaps more likely. But for sheer heat to have caused all this damage; impossible. I'll go ahead and tip my cap to you though because I'll be much more careful with how/when (if?) I spray in the future.

Not sure what you mean with the cal/mag comment . . .

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Heat is what causes airy buds

Bwpz said:

Heat is what causes airy buds

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Exactly.

In case anyone reads through this in the future, my point was that while it's hot enough in my tent at the moment to cause airy buds, the 80~85F range wouldn't be enough heat to cause burnt leaves.

By that same token, anyone who reads through this should know that my takeaway (in addition to some of the others on page 1) is to be way more careful when/if foliar feeding/spraying. The water droplets really do seem to act as a magnifying glass and burn the shit out of the leaves.

infrared said:

Exactly.

In case anyone reads through this in the future, my point was that while it's hot enough in my tent at the moment to cause airy buds, the 80~85F range wouldn't be enough heat to cause burnt leaves.

By that same token, anyone who reads through this should know that my takeaway (in addition to some of the others on page 1) is to be way more careful when/if foliar feeding/spraying. The water droplets really do seem to act as a magnifying glass and burn the shit out of the leaves.

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I doubt water alone would do that, are you using anything in the water? I've heard NEEM can do that sometimes.

infrared said:

Exactly.

In case anyone reads through this in the future, my point was that while it's hot enough in my tent at the moment to cause airy buds, the 80~85F range wouldn't be enough heat to cause burnt leaves.

By that same token, anyone who reads through this should know that my takeaway (in addition to some of the others on page 1) is to be way more careful when/if foliar feeding/spraying. The water droplets really do seem to act as a magnifying glass and burn the shit out of the leaves.

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Dont want to sound an ass but - your buds are in no way dense and compact and often buds grow airy as they get bigger even though they start of apparently compact. Now for a plant like this your max temps are too high unless your growing an african strain or running co2 but not to dispute that others dont manage temps of 30 degrees celcius but your plant obviously hasnt. To mee the damage looks heat and fertilizer burn of which you yourself say you have over ferted and probably why it too looks totally heat damaged because too much ferts will allow heat to affect a plant more than normal.

Personally i wouldnt spray that plant with anything more than fresh water, she is too fragile. New growth will always be weak and deformed after stunting a fully flwowering plant, maturation times may vary now also in that some parts of the bud may finish a lot earlier than other parts due to extended new growth after stunting.

Good luck Peace

lol @ this thread shifting focus from my light burn problem to an apparent exposition on the benefits of strong reading comprehension