All BS set aside CMH yields

is it true or not

  • Total voters
    118
febisfebi

febisfebi

Well-Known Member
bird mcbride said:
A ceramic metal halide or CDM runs at about 3100K. A simple halogen $2 bulb runs at 3000K.

The only reason I can "think" of in using this spectrum to "supplement" (MV)MH or HPS is to get much larger cola nubs.

I can testify that a straight HPS grow cannot compete with certain combinations of lighting.

Someday I will try the stand alone 3100K for myself:)
Click to expand...
If you look at the spectral chart for the 3100k CDM's they are a flowering bulb, and a lot more like a new high tech SE HPS that runs lower heat and more efficient. Mostly a huge spike in the yellow/red flowering vicininy like HPS, as well as one in the green, and they have some SPD throughout the spectrum, but it is at maybe 10% or less through most of the lower blue end of the spectrum, slightly more in the super low blue/uva. If you want the SPD that the CDM's are known for and best for, you want the 4200k CDM's they are the ones with full spectral distribution everyone is talking about.
 

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ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
damn that sucks, lots of money wasted huh? your plan was to hang them vertically with no reflector i take it..a dozen,,, damn,, you could run a huge area with that many.. my thoughts are the more cmh you run the better the efficiency..12 315's would be perfect over 4 4ftx8ft tables and i bet would blow any hps run away. . cant you use them at your work place? or has the work place all cob light testing? i thought you had said you worked at a gro op or somthing to that nature...im sure youll find some people to buy them as it seems more and more people are realizing the cmh potential..grow well n be well, good luck..
Click to expand...
Not wasted, they'll do someone a lot of good, I'm sure.
 
febisfebi

febisfebi

Well-Known Member
Attention: @genuity and any other Double End Users.
If any of you have used a DE Lamp for long enough to see wear, I need to hear from you ASAP!

I need to know if there Is this a way to tell how much life is left in a DE bulb by looking at it, if your not sure of the hours?
Do the DE arc tubes start to turn grey and then black at each end, as they age, like single end hps lamps do?

I have an opportunity to buy a DE Ushio bulb for next to nothing, because the place that is selling it has no way of knowing whether its new, lightly used, or what, as it was a trade in,

This particular bulb has a totally white arc tube. Looks pristine! I would venture to say that it could be brand new.
I really cant see any difference between the arc tube on this bulb, and my brand new Philips GreenPower.

I am wondering whether a DE bulb can still look this way after some use, or even extended, due to the long lamp life, and new improved bulb/ballast tech.

I posted this in a thread as well, but i figured I would ask here as well cause we have some double end users reading this thread, and I need to make a decision by 11am in the morning, when I will most likely be snagging it before someone else does.
I would rather not purchase it without knowing, and I know most people are busy with holidays, but any hint of info on the subject would be very much appreciated!
Thanks, and Merry Christmas you guys!
 
Carolina Dream'n

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
febisfebi said:
Attention: @genuity and any other Double End Users.
If any of you have used a DE Lamp for long enough to see wear, I need to hear from you ASAP!

I need to know if there Is this a way to tell how much life is left in a DE bulb by looking at it, if your not sure of the hours?
Do the DE arc tubes start to turn grey and then black at each end, as they age, like single end hps lamps do?

I have an opportunity to buy a DE Ushio bulb for next to nothing, because the place that is selling it has no way of knowing whether its new, lightly used, or what, as it was a trade in,

This particular bulb has a totally white arc tube. Looks pristine! I would venture to say that it could be brand new.
I really cant see any difference between the arc tube on this bulb, and my brand new Philips GreenPower.

I am wondering whether a DE bulb can still look this way after some use, or even extended, due to the long lamp life, and new improved bulb/ballast tech.

I posted this in a thread as well, but i figured I would ask here as well cause we have some double end users reading this thread, and I need to make a decision by 11am in the morning, when I will most likely be snagging it before someone else does.
I would rather not purchase it without knowing, and I know most people are busy with holidays, but any hint of info on the subject would be very much appreciated!
Thanks, and Merry Christmas you guys!
Click to expand...
Don't buy used bulbs. It's that simple.
 
febisfebi

febisfebi

Well-Known Member
First off I need to simplify my question. All I need to know is after one or several cycles, does a DE bulb (philips or ushio) show any signs of wear, such as the greying of the arc tube ends like you would see in single end bulbs?

@Carolina Dream'n
@ttystikk
Thanks guys, I appreciate the replys. especially on Christmas day. I appreciate your opinions, and I totally agree with you both for those exact reasons. You never know what your using. The SPD could be degraded past the point of usefulness, it could be damaged, overdriven, etc, etc. Especially on a DE setup since your trying to take advantage of more efficient tech. This case might be possible exception I might be willing to make, because I need my lights both up and running, and can probably do so for $30, at a time when I really would rather spend my money on a 3 COB led setup, to be expanded on later. For that, I'm willing to take a small risk in exchange for cob since this DE bulb looks so brand new.
If I am told by other DE users that greying of the arc tube is not a known phenomenon and the arc tubes stay pearly white til the day you toss them, than I will likely reconsider whether I want to risk drawing those watts if that bulb could be worn down. But that seems very unlikely that there would be no visible signs of wear after 5 to 10k hrs use. Especially considering the temperature DEs burn at in order to reach peak efficiency.

This bulb can be had new locally for $90+tax, which is a fair price, but I'd still probably go for the philips.
Since we grow mostly medicine (CBD) plants for very sick people, without that cash crop most everyone has, it is difficult to finance these kinds of expensive setups.
Right now, I would really like to have a new toy/project to work on, and the project part is a big deal for me.
Thanks again, I hope everyone had a good Christmas this year!
Happy Holidays everyone!
 
Last edited:
Carolina Dream'n

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
febisfebi said:
First off I need to simplify my question. All I need to know is after one or several cycles, does a DE bulb (philips or ushio) show any signs of wear, such as the greying of the arc tube ends like you would see in single end bulbs?

@Carolina Dream'n
@ttystikk
Thanks guys, I appreciate the replys. especially on Christmas day. I appreciate your opinions, and I totally agree with you both for those exact reasons. You never know what your using. The SPD could be degraded past the point of usefulness, it could be damaged, overdriven, etc, etc. Especially on a DE setup since your trying to take advantage of more efficient tech. This case might be possible exception I might be willing to make, because I need my lights both up and running, and can probably do so for $30, at a time when I really would rather spend my money on a 3 COB led setup, to be expanded on later. For that, I'm willing to take a small risk in exchange for cob since this DE bulb looks so brand new.
If I am told by other DE users that greying of the arc tube is not a known phenomenon and the arc tubes stay pearly white til the day you toss them, than I will likely reconsider whether I want to risk drawing those watts if that bulb could be worn down. But that seems very unlikely that there would be no visible signs of wear after 5 to 10k hrs use. Especially considering the temperature DEs burn at in order to reach peak efficiency.

This bulb can be had new locally for $90+tax, which is a fair price, but I'd still probably go for the philips.
Since we grow mostly medicine (CBD) plants for very sick people, without that cash crop most everyone has, it is difficult to finance these kinds of expensive setups.
Right now, I would really like to have a new toy/project to work on, and the project part is a big deal for me.
Thanks again, I hope everyone had a good Christmas this year!
Happy Holidays everyone!
Click to expand...
I replace my DE bulbs every other harvest. Just like a standard bulb I can see the spectrum shift and get less intense light after a few months.
 
genuity

genuity

Well-Known Member
febisfebi said:
Attention: @genuity and any other Double End Users.
If any of you have used a DE Lamp for long enough to see wear, I need to hear from you ASAP!

I need to know if there Is this a way to tell how much life is left in a DE bulb by looking at it, if your not sure of the hours?
Do the DE arc tubes start to turn grey and then black at each end, as they age, like single end hps lamps do?

I have an opportunity to buy a DE Ushio bulb for next to nothing, because the place that is selling it has no way of knowing whether its new, lightly used, or what, as it was a trade in,

This particular bulb has a totally white arc tube. Looks pristine! I would venture to say that it could be brand new.
I really cant see any difference between the arc tube on this bulb, and my brand new Philips GreenPower.

I am wondering whether a DE bulb can still look this way after some use, or even extended, due to the long lamp life, and new improved bulb/ballast tech.

I posted this in a thread as well, but i figured I would ask here as well cause we have some double end users reading this thread, and I need to make a decision by 11am in the morning, when I will most likely be snagging it before someone else does.
I would rather not purchase it without knowing, and I know most people are busy with holidays, but any hint of info on the subject would be very much appreciated!
Thanks, and Merry Christmas you guys!
Click to expand...
I would think it would start to go gray/black when old...

Have not had my setup more than a yr,and all bulbs still look good,they still max out the foot candle meter...at 20"-24"
 
febisfebi

febisfebi

Well-Known Member
Carolina Dream'n said:
I replace my DE bulbs every other harvest. Just like a standard bulb I can see the spectrum shift and get less intense light after a few months.
Click to expand...
What sort of meter do you use to see the spectrum shift, or does this data come from plant behavior? Do the arc tubes show wear(greyting ends) at this point, or does that not come later after 6,12 or more months? They are supposed to be good for 10k hrs which could be porentially lot more than every other harvest, where you might see your first drop in performance despite that they can keep running 6 months, or over a year, and still going strong. :)
We all know there is a performance curve that slopes down, rather than getting better with time, unlike the Low Freq. Square Wave tech. @genuity you said, you would think that it would start show great/black when old. How do your arc tubes currently look, after 1yr plus of use,as far as greying? You say they all still look good. Does this mean the arc tubes still dont show yet any greying yet even at that age? I mean you must be able to at least tell the difference between the year old ones and a brand new one, right?

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all the info! I may have to reconsider, if there is negligible signs of wear even after a year.
I have to run to the store for some 10" hose clamps anyways, so i'll see just how good of a deal, I can get. (knowing of course that I should replace that bulb as soon as I have an extra $125 lying around to get max performance) Like I said, if they want $50 or more for it, ill just buy new! Only if its going to bring my DE upgrade project to a close, without depleting my wallet any further than it already has, will I spring for this as cheap easy solution to a costly problem/proposition, and would make my plants happy. Believe me, the bulb thats curently running in place of the 2nd DE has a lot more wear than this one, and it could potentially give me some breathing room after all the recent purchases, to replenish funds, and still have an operational second light.
 
Carolina Dream'n

Carolina Dream'n

Well-Known Member
febisfebi said:
What sort of meter do you use to see the spectrum shift, or does this data come from plant behavior? Do the arc tubes show wear(greyting ends) at this point, or does that not come later after 6,12 or more months? They are supposed to be good for 10k hrs which could be porentially lot more than every other harvest, where you might see your first drop in performance despite that they can keep running 6 months, or over a year, and still going strong. :)
We all know there is a performance curve that slopes down, rather than getting better with time, unlike the Low Freq. Square Wave tech. @genuity you said, you would think that it would start show great/black when old. How do your arc tubes currently look, after 1yr plus of use,as far as greying? You say they all still look good. Does this mean the arc tubes still dont show yet any greying yet even at that age? I mean you must be able to at least tell the difference between the year old ones and a brand new one, right?

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate all the info! I may have to reconsider, if there is negligible signs of wear even after a year.
I have to run to the store for some 10" hose clamps anyways, so i'll see just how good of a deal, I can get. (knowing of course that I should replace that bulb as soon as I have an extra $125 lying around to get max performance) Like I said, if they want $50 or more for it, ill just buy new! Only if its going to bring my DE upgrade project to a close, without depleting my wallet any further than it already has, will I spring for this as cheap easy solution to a costly problem/proposition, and would make my plants happy. Believe me, the bulb thats curently running in place of the 2nd DE has a lot more wear than this one, and it could potentially give me some breathing room after all the recent purchases, to replenish funds, and still have an operational second light.
Click to expand...
I first noticed it when I had all the doors open to to all 4 flower rooms at once. The spectrum was different coming from each room. All the same bulbs. Only difference was age.
 
TheChemist77

TheChemist77

Well-Known Member
febisfebi said:
If you look at the spectral chart for the 3100k CDM's they are a flowering bulb, and a lot more like a new high tech SE HPS that runs lower heat and more efficient. Mostly a huge spike in the yellow/red flowering vicininy like HPS, as well as one in the green, and they have some SPD throughout the spectrum, but it is at maybe 10% or less through most of the lower blue end of the spectrum, slightly more in the super low blue/uva. If you want the SPD that the CDM's are known for and best for, you want the 4200k CDM's they are the ones with full spectral distribution everyone is talking about.
Click to expand...
the phillips 315 cmh 3100k is an agro bulb, the 4200k is not. i was told by boulder lamp that the agro makes the difference and they said testing proved the 3100k agro was better for both veg and bloom..i have not tested this myself, so i dont know if its true. id like to see someone here on riu do a test w/ the 3100k agro and the 4200k cmh bulbs to see the difference in veg and bloom...
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
TheChemist77 said:
the phillips 315 cmh 3100k is an agro bulb, the 4200k is not. i was told by boulder lamp that the agro makes the difference and they said testing proved the 3100k agro was better for both veg and bloom..i have not tested this myself, so i dont know if its true. id like to see someone here on riu do a test w/ the 3100k agro and the 4200k cmh bulbs to see the difference in veg and bloom...
Click to expand...
Boulder seems to have a hard on for the 3100k bulb (likely have a few thousand in stock?) and is feeding you crap. The 4200k is an Elite Agro, here's the latest spec sheet, part numbers w/colour temps are on page 3. Funny because when I spoke to advacedtech they kept telling me to go with the 4200k because they had "tested" it and the results were better than the 3100k. I don't personally listen to anyone who has an interest in selling me their inventory. idk which one is better or if there'd be any significant difference, but I don't like vendors who put out misinformation.
 
elkamino

elkamino

Well-Known Member
genuity said:
I would think it would start to go gray/black when old...

Have not had my setup more than a yr,and all bulbs still look good,they still max out the foot candle meter...at 20"-24"
Click to expand...
@genuity Can you explain what you mean by "max out the foot candle meter" here?

Thank you. :joint:
 
elkamino

elkamino

Well-Known Member
Merlin34 said:
I'm going to be running a section of the 3100k bulbs in my warehouse. I'll know the answer in a couple months. So far the 4200s I use are producing good results, but I'm nearing the first harvest, so we'll see about weight...

Colorado
Click to expand...
Seriously STOKED to see these results. Thanks in advance for the documented comparison.

Will we see the results in your 50000 thread? :eyesmoke:
 
MistaRasta

MistaRasta

Well-Known Member
Just took my 330 cdm down as its too bright to work around and has too much uv bare bulb..

These things are ridiculously bright and put off a good amount of crie.. Can't wait to see what the mixed spectrum in flower does

Is there any difference between the 330 cdm all start and the 315w master color spectrum-wise? I know the 330 runs on 4000k which is fine. I'm also aware that they're a little more innefficient than their digital counterparts but everything looks good in veg..couldn't see it getting much better
 
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