Aeroponics - SCROG for the roots?

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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
straightup636 said:
What was the yield on that plant? How long did you veg?
Click to expand...
That single large plant was a C99 that veged for around 6 weeks, then flowering lasted around 11 weeks IIRC. Yield on that plant was well over 3000 gms wet, and I tossed out at least 1/4 of the plant because I was just too tired and sick to finish harvesting and processing it all. Ran out of room too. I still have a crap ton of RSO in the freezer. If I had done my usual harvest, it would have been a good 4000+ grams Im sure.

The last two pics were from my first auto grow. That one was three plants in the system at the same time, and the total haul from it was also just over 3000 grams - but I didnt toss very much of it out because I was feeling much better at the time. By the way, 1000 grams on average from an auto isnt too bad at all.

The bigest difference from my perspective was the auto grow only took around 90 days instead of 119 days for the C99. I track my grow performance on a grams per day basis, so the faster auto grow worked out much better than the longer C99 grow. Im only doing autos these days. I like the faster turn around time and you can just set the lights to 18/6 and forget about it. Plus, the shorter grow time means th roots dont have as long to over whelm my root chamber and nozzles. My next auto grow is some CBD plants that are only supposed to take 63 days from seed. It will be interesting to see what that yield is like.

Airwalker16 said:
That's actually insane.. I guess you're not using a trellis. Because even my 6" pots sat into 5gal bucket lids with a hole cut out for them, have more than a few times, forces themselves down THROUGH the lid and into the bucket.
I can't say I've ever had my stems get THAT enormous though.
Click to expand...
Im not sure what you mean by trellis - for the roots or for the plants? I always use a SCROG screen for the plants. It helps tremendously when you are trying to fill up a tent. That SCROG screen does support the plant in addition to the net pot.

The lid on my root chamber also happens to be the floor of the grow tent. Its just a sheet of 1" thick foam from Home Depot. I do have a piece of 1x2 pine under it running across the center line to help, but its mainly the foam supporting the net pots. There is no sag in the foam, so you know that scrog screen is carrying most of the weight.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
straightup636 said:
I get what you are saying and agree that it's probably a ridiculous idea. However, the idea was not to take a matured root mass and try to untangle\train it into a screen. I was thinking more of having the screen there in the beginning and wondering if the roots would naturally start to weave their way through it - maybe coaxing them with some creative sprayer placement.

I here you though. It doesn't sound feasible because as you mentioned, the roots from aero are much different than what you get in soil or dwc.
Click to expand...
Hpa roots can be steered to some extent with nozzle placement but its usually limited to encouraging them to grow down or up. I use mesh supports in large outdoor hpa chambers which have 2 continuous slots for plants rather than a fixed layout of planting holes. The mesh runs the full length of the chamber with no breaks. The roots anchor into it, grow through and spill over the sides but remain fairly localised rather than heading out along the mesh each side.
 

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straightup636

Member
Atomizer said:
Hpa roots can be steered to some extent with nozzle placement but its usually limited to encouraging them to grow down or up. I use mesh supports in large outdoor hpa chambers which have 2 continuous slots for plants rather than a fixed layout of planting holes. The mesh runs the full length of the chamber with no breaks. The roots anchor into it, grow through and spill over the sides but remain fairly localised rather than heading out along the mesh each side.
Click to expand...
Hey Atomizer,

That's awesome info - you basically answered my exact question as that mesh you got going was exactly what I was thinking. Do you mind if I ask why you use the mesh if it doesn't really assist in fanning out all the roots? You actually put the plant right in the mesh as opposed to some kind of growing medium that sits above the mesh? Maybe I'm not quite understanding ...
 
S

straightup636

Member
Larry3215 said:
That single large plant was a C99 that veged for around 6 weeks, then flowering lasted around 11 weeks IIRC. Yield on that plant was well over 3000 gms wet, and I tossed out at least 1/4 of the plant because I was just too tired and sick to finish harvesting and processing it all. Ran out of room too. I still have a crap ton of RSO in the freezer. If I had done my usual harvest, it would have been a good 4000+ grams Im sure.

The last two pics were from my first auto grow. That one was three plants in the system at the same time, and the total haul from it was also just over 3000 grams - but I didnt toss very much of it out because I was feeling much better at the time. By the way, 1000 grams on average from an auto isnt too bad at all.

The bigest difference from my perspective was the auto grow only took around 90 days instead of 119 days for the C99. I track my grow performance on a grams per day basis, so the faster auto grow worked out much better than the longer C99 grow. Im only doing autos these days. I like the faster turn around time and you can just set the lights to 18/6 and forget about it. Plus, the shorter grow time means th roots dont have as long to over whelm my root chamber and nozzles. My next auto grow is some CBD plants that are only supposed to take 63 days from seed. It will be interesting to see what that yield is like.



Im not sure what you mean by trellis - for the roots or for the plants? I always use a SCROG screen for the plants. It helps tremendously when you are trying to fill up a tent. That SCROG screen does support the plant in addition to the net pot.

The lid on my root chamber also happens to be the floor of the grow tent. Its just a sheet of 1" thick foam from Home Depot. I do have a piece of 1x2 pine under it running across the center line to help, but its mainly the foam supporting the net pots. There is no sag in the foam, so you know that scrog screen is carrying most of the weight.
Click to expand...
Damn Larry that C99 sounds looks like a great producer. I don't really mess with autos or clones because I've always been of the opinion that they produce inferior product potency-wise and I'm not growing on a large enough scale anymore that necessitates having mothers and constantly cloning. Don't get me wrong, I can certainly see the positives in autoflowers - I was just never very impressed with the few strains I did grow in regards to their potency. Granted that was several years ago, so maybe things have changed (ie., better phenotypes).

Anyways, thanks for all the info. I'm hoping you can lend me your opinion on my build list later on when I get home from work. Do you mind if I ask what PSI you are running and on what size piping? Some of the little diaphragm pumps I was looking at only produce 80psi and I'm not sure if that's generally going to be enough as I'm assuming the diameter of the piping would greatly affect the PSI as well.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
The chambers have two 16ft long slots in the top with garage door brushes on each side to stop the plants falling over and keep the light out.The mesh gives the roots something to anchor into and prevents them falling down into the chamber. Plants can be placed anywhere in the slots so its more flexible than using netpots where the number of sites and spacing is fixed.
 
P

PhatNuggz

Well-Known Member
Larry3215 said:
You can certainly try it and see, but Ive never heard of anyone having any luck with that. The roots have a bad habit of ignoring everything - including a trellis - and just single mindedly going straight for the source of the mist. The exception to that is if you give them too much mist - then they go straight for the floor.

Gravity means nothing to aeroponic roots until they get pretty long, or if they stay too wet. If you give them extra support, that will just make it easier for them to get to your nozzles that much faster.

The trick is to judge the amount of mist so they are just right rather then too wet or too dry.
Click to expand...
Awesome looking HPA roots
 
L

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
straightup636 said:
Do you mind if I ask what PSI you are running and on what size piping? Some of the little diaphragm pumps I was looking at only produce 80psi and I'm not sure if that's generally going to be enough as I'm assuming the diameter of the piping would greatly affect the PSI as well.
Click to expand...
I switched over to air atomized after that C99 grow, and thats what Im doing now. When I was doing HPA, I did it all on the cheep. Actually the AAA build was on the cheep as well.

My HPA system used all 1/4" push-fit tubing, valves, etc. The same stuff you use for home RO systems. It would be better to use larger tubing. At the low flow rates most home growers will be using, the small diameter tubing doesnt represent that much of a pressure drop between your accumulator tank and the nozzles. Larger tubing will result in less pressure drop, but its not all that bad if you lay things out so the runs are not all that long. I also used all 1/4" solenoids, pump fittings, etc. Going up to 3/8" tubing wont cost all that much more than 1/4", so might be worth it.

By the way, its especially important to keep the solenoids as close to the nozzles as possible.

One thing that will kill your budget is adaptors. Try to get all your parts and pieces, pumps, filters, pressure reducers, pressure switches, solenoids, one way valves, etc etc, to use the same size pipe and fittings.

The nozzles that worked best for me were from a company called Ecologic

Stainless Steel Fog Nozzles – Ecologic Technologies Inc

cloudtops.com cloudtops.com

I used the stainless 0.02 nozzles, plus a nozzle body, swivel base, stainless spring and anti drip valve parts. There are several other sources for the same basic nozzles, but I liked these folks best. It works out to around $6 per nozzle total IIRC.

You might want to try the next larger size orifice. I think my median droplet size may have been a tad small on average. Either than or I was just running a bit too dry as far as on/off times. Thats partly why the root mass spread out so drastically so early in the grow. On the other hand, it may have just been me. I am addicted to those fuzzy hairs and sideways growing shoots, so I tend to adjust on/off times to get more or those when I should be considering things like over growing the root chamber and swallowing nozzles.

On pumps - I used cheep coffee machine solenoid pumps that got my accumulator tank up to 140 PSI or so. I then used a pressure reducer to drop it down to the 100 PSI range. I dont really recommend using this type of pump. They do work, but they are noisy, and mine only lasted about 6 months of constant use.

You need your pump to be able to get the accumulator tank up to well above your normal nozzle operating pressure. If your pump can only do 80 PSI, then that limits how hi you can run the nozzles. I dont know how well the nozzles I chose will work at say 60 PSI. They may be fine, but I never ran them that low. It was always at 100 PSI or above. That seemed to produce the most uniform droplet sizes with the least amount of wasted drips, dribbles, sputters etc. There are diaphragm pumps available that do higher pressures. You just need to dig into the specs.

So far Im liking the air atomized option better than HPA. It has a lower parts count, but will cost you a little more to get started. A lot will depend on the nozzles you choose. Unfortunately, finding info on good air atomizing nozzles is not at all easy. The few folks - like Atomizer - with lots of experience in AAA refuse to share any specifics on nozzles.

I have been using relatively inexpensive Delavan oil heater nozzles with some success. They are not ideal, but they do work. I used those EcoLogic hydrolic nozzles on the C99 grow and the Delavans on all the auto grows since then. There one big advantage over some of the other nozzles Ive looked at is they work at relatively low air pressures and flow rates - under 10PSI easily. Im now running mine at around 6 PSI.

www.ebay.com

DELAVAN 30609-8 (SNA .75) SIPHON NOZZLE WASTE OIL NOZZLE USED OIL 30609-008 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DELAVAN 30609-8 (SNA .75) SIPHON NOZZLE WASTE OIL NOZZLE USED OIL 30609-008 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

The all stainless ones were closer to $100ea. You will either need to buy a matching brass adaptor at around another $20, or make your own. I went cheap again and made my own. The stainless adaptors are more $$.

After about a year of use, and 3 grows so far, these brass/stainless ones I have are starting to show some corrosion effects. The brass shows some external signs which dont bother me, but the internal air passages are starting to build up some corrosion on two of them. Ive cleaned them up enough to get through another grow, but I will probably have to replace them after that.

It would probably have helped a lot if I had a water removing filter in the air lines, but I cheeped out there too and just used a standard 200 micron filter. I may add a water trap in the air lines when I replace the nozzles, but that will depend on how $$ the filters are vrs the cost of the nozzles.

The only other major expense you have with AAA is an air compressor. If you can hide one out in a shed or garage where the noise isnt a problem, then a normal construction type compressor will be fine. If you are like me and have to keep it inside the house, then you want a quiet or 'silent' type compressor. Those run a bit more $$. I am using the smallest model from California Air Tools.


That should get you started. If you want more info, I will suggest you check out OverGrow.com. I spend most of my time over there. I have build threads for the HPA and AAA systems. You can follow along as I stumble through trying to figure this stuff out. That will save me a lot of re-typing stuff - which Im less likely to have the energy for these days. :)
 
Last edited:
S

straightup636

Member
Larry3215 said:
I switched over to air atomized after that C99 grow, and thats what Im doing now. When I was doing HPA, I did it all on the cheep. Actually the AAA build was on the cheep as well.

My HPA system used all 1/4" push-fit tubing, valves, etc. The same stuff you use for home RO systems. It would be better to use larger tubing. At the low flow rates most home growers will be using, the small diameter tubing doesnt represent that much of a pressure drop between your accumulator tank and the nozzles. Larger tubing will result in less pressure drop, but its not all that bad if you lay things out so the runs are not all that long. I also used all 1/4" solenoids, pump fittings, etc. Going up to 3/8" tubing wont cost all that much more than 1/4", so might be worth it.

By the way, its especially important to keep the solenoids as close to the nozzles as possible.

One thing that will kill your budget is adaptors. Try to get all your parts and pieces, pumps, filters, pressure reducers, pressure switches, solenoids, one way valves, etc etc, to use the same size pipe and fittings.

The nozzles that worked best for me were from a company called Ecologic

Stainless Steel Fog Nozzles – Ecologic Technologies Inc

cloudtops.com cloudtops.com

I used the stainless 0.02 nozzles, plus a nozzle body, swivel base, stainless spring and anti drip valve parts. There are several other sources for the same basic nozzles, but I liked these folks best. It works out to around $6 per nozzle total IIRC.

You might want to try the next larger size orifice. I think my median droplet size may have been a tad small on average. Either than or I was just running a bit too dry as far as on/off times. Thats partly why the root mass spread out so drastically so early in the grow. On the other hand, it may have just been me. I am addicted to those fuzzy hairs and sideways growing shoots, so I tend to adjust on/off times to get more or those when I should be considering things like over growing the root chamber and swallowing nozzles.

On pumps - I used cheep coffee machine solenoid pumps that got my accumulator tank up to 140 PSI or so. I then used a pressure reducer to drop it down to the 100 PSI range. I dont really recommend using this type of pump. They do work, but they are noisy, and mine only lasted about 6 months of constant use.

You need your pump to be able to get the accumulator tank up to well above your normal nozzle operating pressure. If your pump can only do 80 PSI, then that limits how hi you can run the nozzles. I dont know how well the nozzles I chose will work at say 60 PSI. They may be fine, but I never ran them that low. It was always at 100 PSI or above. That seemed to produce the most uniform droplet sizes with the least amount of wasted drips, dribbles, sputters etc. There are diaphragm pumps available that do higher pressures. You just need to dig into the specs.

So far Im liking the air atomized option better than HPA. It has a lower parts count, but will cost you a little more to get started. A lot will depend on the nozzles you choose. Unfortunately, finding info on good air atomizing nozzles is not at all easy. The few folks - like Atomizer - with lots of experience in AAA refuse to share any specifics on nozzles.

I have been using relatively inexpensive Delavan oil heater nozzles with some success. They are not ideal, but they do work. I used those EcoLogic hydrolic nozzles on the C99 grow and the Delavans on all the auto grows since then. There one big advantage over some of the other nozzles Ive looked at is they work at relatively low air pressures and flow rates - under 10PSI easily. Im now running mine at around 6 PSI.

www.ebay.com

DELAVAN 30609-8 (SNA .75) SIPHON NOZZLE WASTE OIL NOZZLE USED OIL 30609-008 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DELAVAN 30609-8 (SNA .75) SIPHON NOZZLE WASTE OIL NOZZLE USED OIL 30609-008 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

The all stainless ones were closer to $100ea. You will either need to buy a matching brass adaptor at around another $20, or make your own. I went cheap again and made my own. The stainless adaptors are more $$.

After about a year of use, and 3 grows so far, these brass/stainless ones I have are starting to show some corrosion effects. The brass shows some external signs which dont bother me, but the internal air passages are starting to build up some corrosion on two of them. Ive cleaned them up enough to get through another grow, but I will probably have to replace them after that.

It would probably have helped a lot if I had a water removing filter in the air lines, but I cheeped out there too and just used a standard 200 micron filter. I may add a water trap in the air lines when I replace the nozzles, but that will depend on how $$ the filters are vrs the cost of the nozzles.

The only other major expense you have with AAA is an air compressor. If you can hide one out in a shed or garage where the noise isnt a problem, then a normal construction type compressor will be fine. If you are like me and have to keep it inside the house, then you want a quiet or 'silent' type compressor. Those run a bit more $$. I am using the smallest model from California Air Tools.


That should get you started. If you want more info, I will suggest you check out OverGrow.com. I spend most of my time over there. I have build threads for the HPA and AAA systems. You can follow along as I stumble through trying to figure this stuff out. That will save me a lot of re-typing stuff - which Im less likely to have the energy for these days. :)
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for all of the info Larry - I will check out overflow.com as I've never heard of it.

You make some real good points about trying to keep all of the plumbing and fittings the same size - I've been going crazy trying to put together parts that all fit.

Like you, I was planning on using 1/4", but for some reason it seems illogical to me that a larger diameter would increase pressure. Not saying you are wrong - I obviously don't understand it enough to know what I'm talking about. I just assumed that the smaller the pipe, the more efficiently it holds the pressure, up to a certain point of course.

I'll check out the nozzles you linked - I was looking at Tefen nozzles as I had heard good things about them.

Last, despite the fact that all of that interests me, I'm glad I haven't committed to anything yet because I'm learning new things about aero everyday and am certainly not committed to any one method over the other. Nevermind the extra cost (as long as it's not too outrageous), I'm intrigued by your mentioning the use of atomizers, which I'm even less familiar with. Are you talking about using atomizers instead of the misting nozzles? Or atomizers that float in water at the bottom of your bucket? Or maybe that's not even an atomizer that I'm thinking of. Basically, how does/would your setup differ from the HPA that we've been talking about?

Thanks again my man - I really appreciate all of the help!
 
S

straightup636

Member
Larry3215 said:
I switched over to air atomized after that C99 grow, and thats what Im doing now. When I was doing HPA, I did it all on the cheep. Actually the AAA build was on the cheep as well.

My HPA system used all 1/4" push-fit tubing, valves, etc. The same stuff you use for home RO systems. It would be better to use larger tubing. At the low flow rates most home growers will be using, the small diameter tubing doesnt represent that much of a pressure drop between your accumulator tank and the nozzles. Larger tubing will result in less pressure drop, but its not all that bad if you lay things out so the runs are not all that long. I also used all 1/4" solenoids, pump fittings, etc. Going up to 3/8" tubing wont cost all that much more than 1/4", so might be worth it.

By the way, its especially important to keep the solenoids as close to the nozzles as possible.

One thing that will kill your budget is adaptors. Try to get all your parts and pieces, pumps, filters, pressure reducers, pressure switches, solenoids, one way valves, etc etc, to use the same size pipe and fittings.

The nozzles that worked best for me were from a company called Ecologic

Stainless Steel Fog Nozzles – Ecologic Technologies Inc

cloudtops.com cloudtops.com

I used the stainless 0.02 nozzles, plus a nozzle body, swivel base, stainless spring and anti drip valve parts. There are several other sources for the same basic nozzles, but I liked these folks best. It works out to around $6 per nozzle total IIRC.

You might want to try the next larger size orifice. I think my median droplet size may have been a tad small on average. Either than or I was just running a bit too dry as far as on/off times. Thats partly why the root mass spread out so drastically so early in the grow. On the other hand, it may have just been me. I am addicted to those fuzzy hairs and sideways growing shoots, so I tend to adjust on/off times to get more or those when I should be considering things like over growing the root chamber and swallowing nozzles.

On pumps - I used cheep coffee machine solenoid pumps that got my accumulator tank up to 140 PSI or so. I then used a pressure reducer to drop it down to the 100 PSI range. I dont really recommend using this type of pump. They do work, but they are noisy, and mine only lasted about 6 months of constant use.

You need your pump to be able to get the accumulator tank up to well above your normal nozzle operating pressure. If your pump can only do 80 PSI, then that limits how hi you can run the nozzles. I dont know how well the nozzles I chose will work at say 60 PSI. They may be fine, but I never ran them that low. It was always at 100 PSI or above. That seemed to produce the most uniform droplet sizes with the least amount of wasted drips, dribbles, sputters etc. There are diaphragm pumps available that do higher pressures. You just need to dig into the specs.

So far Im liking the air atomized option better than HPA. It has a lower parts count, but will cost you a little more to get started. A lot will depend on the nozzles you choose. Unfortunately, finding info on good air atomizing nozzles is not at all easy. The few folks - like Atomizer - with lots of experience in AAA refuse to share any specifics on nozzles.

I have been using relatively inexpensive Delavan oil heater nozzles with some success. They are not ideal, but they do work. I used those EcoLogic hydrolic nozzles on the C99 grow and the Delavans on all the auto grows since then. There one big advantage over some of the other nozzles Ive looked at is they work at relatively low air pressures and flow rates - under 10PSI easily. Im now running mine at around 6 PSI.

www.ebay.com

DELAVAN 30609-8 (SNA .75) SIPHON NOZZLE WASTE OIL NOZZLE USED OIL 30609-008 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for DELAVAN 30609-8 (SNA .75) SIPHON NOZZLE WASTE OIL NOZZLE USED OIL 30609-008 at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com

The all stainless ones were closer to $100ea. You will either need to buy a matching brass adaptor at around another $20, or make your own. I went cheap again and made my own. The stainless adaptors are more $$.

After about a year of use, and 3 grows so far, these brass/stainless ones I have are starting to show some corrosion effects. The brass shows some external signs which dont bother me, but the internal air passages are starting to build up some corrosion on two of them. Ive cleaned them up enough to get through another grow, but I will probably have to replace them after that.

It would probably have helped a lot if I had a water removing filter in the air lines, but I cheeped out there too and just used a standard 200 micron filter. I may add a water trap in the air lines when I replace the nozzles, but that will depend on how $$ the filters are vrs the cost of the nozzles.

The only other major expense you have with AAA is an air compressor. If you can hide one out in a shed or garage where the noise isnt a problem, then a normal construction type compressor will be fine. If you are like me and have to keep it inside the house, then you want a quiet or 'silent' type compressor. Those run a bit more $$. I am using the smallest model from California Air Tools.


That should get you started. If you want more info, I will suggest you check out OverGrow.com. I spend most of my time over there. I have build threads for the HPA and AAA systems. You can follow along as I stumble through trying to figure this stuff out. That will save me a lot of re-typing stuff - which Im less likely to have the energy for these days. :)
Click to expand...
Just wanted to mention that I went to overgrow and have been reading your journals. I feel like I've been following the same path as you were! Great stuff brother.
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Larry3215 said:
So far Im liking the air atomized option better than HPA. It has a lower parts count, but will cost you a little more to get started. A lot will depend on the nozzles you choose. Unfortunately, finding info on good air atomizing nozzles is not at all easy. The few folks - like Atomizer - with lots of experience in AAA refuse to share any specifics on nozzles.
Click to expand...
A universal, guaranteed to fit all, AA nozzle doesnt exist. I use different nozzles in different chambers, they are not the same type or even made by the same company. Everyone that has ventured into AA has had to make their own decision on which nozzles to use. At best its an educated guess, at worst, an expensive gamble (unless you can send it back). Its a case of your money, your choice.
 
L

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
A universal, guaranteed to fit all, AA nozzle doesnt exist. I use different nozzles in different chambers, they are not the same type or even made by the same company. Everyone that has ventured into AA has had to make their own decision on which nozzles to use. At best its an educated guess, at worst, an expensive gamble (unless you can send it back). Its a case of your money, your choice.
Click to expand...
Sorry, Im calling BS on that.

You have said before that you refused to share nozzle info because you had spent too much money to be willing to share, and it was more or less every man for himself. You also said other things that indicated your unwillingness to have anyone else have access to your hard work and investment.

Now, I could understand that utterly selfish attitude I guess, but then why are you here posting on the forums at all? Seriously - why? Most of the rest of us are here either to learn or to help others. Why are you here if not to share information and to help others be successful?

I can only assume its because you want to maintain your position as the AAA guru of guru's and screw the rest of us. I cant think of any other reason why you would share little tidbits but withhold the one critical thing that everything else follows from - nozzle details.

At the same time, you have posted all sorts of detailed mathematical calculations as far as mist density, flow rates, chamber volumes, heights, widths, nozzle positioning, materials to use or not use, timing variables, timers to use, relays, regulators, pumps, solenoids, accumulator tanks, air compressors, water pumps, pressure reducers, proper temperatures, etc etc etc etc.

Everything except details on nozzles.

You say you're not providing details about nozzles because every setup is different - but why provide details about all the other components? That excuse just doesnt hold water.

For example, you could have given just a few examples - the model # and MFG of the nozzle, the size and shape of root chamber you had it in, the placement of the nozzles, plus the ON/OFF times, pressures, placements, etc.

If you had done that just a few times, for a few different examples where it worked for you, those of us worshiping at your feet might have had a slightly better chance of being successful - without having to spend money we dont have and waste time we dont have experimenting and re-inventing a wheel that you dont want to share.

Seems to me you would much prefer we just continue to bow down at your feet and stay in our places. Or maybe its that you get a kick out of watching us fumble around trying to figure this crap out while you laugh at us and feel superior.

Im just guessing of course. The only thing Im sure of is that your excuse is 100% BS.
 
L

Larry3215

Well-Known Member
straightup636 said:
Like you, I was planning on using 1/4", but for some reason it seems illogical to me that a larger diameter would increase pressure. Not saying you are wrong - I obviously don't understand it enough to know what I'm talking about. I just assumed that the smaller the pipe, the more efficiently it holds the pressure, up to a certain point of course.
Click to expand...
The thing about small diameter vrs larger diameter pipes has to do with pressure drop over the length of the pipe while the liquid or air is actually flowing.

Any pipe has a certain amount of resistance to the flow of any liquid. The longer the pipe the greater the resistance. That resistance causes the pressure at the far end of the pipe to be lower than the pressure at the source end. If you measure the pressure at the pump for example, it might be 100 PSI, but at the open end of the pipe some distance away it will be less - say 90 PSI. The longer the pipe, the greater the pressure loss - while the fluid is flowing. Close off the end of the pipe, and the pressure is the same every where in the pipe.

Larger pipes have less resistance and therefore less pressure drop for any given length of pipe.

For most small home setups, its not that big a deal unless your running very close to a critical low pressure - like say the pressure of an anti-drip valve. . The flow rates for just a few nozzles in a small setup isnt going to be all that high, so the pressure drop wont be that great. In a really large grow with lots of nozzles, that might change.

Still, as they say - bigger is better :)
 
FADING-SILHOUETTE

FADING-SILHOUETTE

Well-Known Member
You could add a party hat style cone under the root mass so the roots grow around it...thinner or more spread out ..then remove it or not..in flower for a better chance of nuits and air delivery to the areas usually hidden in deep root mas...just a thought..I reckon itd work ..as long as your not planning on growing a whopper... - STELTHY :leaf:
 
A

Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Larry3215 said:
Sorry, Im calling BS on that.

You have said before that you refused to share nozzle info because you had spent too much money to be willing to share, and it was more or less every man for himself. You also said other things that indicated your unwillingness to have anyone else have access to your hard work and investment.

Now, I could understand that utterly selfish attitude I guess, but then why are you here posting on the forums at all? Seriously - why? Most of the rest of us are here either to learn or to help others. Why are you here if not to share information and to help others be successful?

I can only assume its because you want to maintain your position as the AAA guru of guru's and screw the rest of us. I cant think of any other reason why you would share little tidbits but withhold the one critical thing that everything else follows from - nozzle details.

At the same time, you have posted all sorts of detailed mathematical calculations as far as mist density, flow rates, chamber volumes, heights, widths, nozzle positioning, materials to use or not use, timing variables, timers to use, relays, regulators, pumps, solenoids, accumulator tanks, air compressors, water pumps, pressure reducers, proper temperatures, etc etc etc etc.

Everything except details on nozzles.

You say you're not providing details about nozzles because every setup is different - but why provide details about all the other components? That excuse just doesnt hold water.

For example, you could have given just a few examples - the model # and MFG of the nozzle, the size and shape of root chamber you had it in, the placement of the nozzles, plus the ON/OFF times, pressures, placements, etc.

If you had done that just a few times, for a few different examples where it worked for you, those of us worshiping at your feet might have had a slightly better chance of being successful - without having to spend money we dont have and waste time we dont have experimenting and re-inventing a wheel that you dont want to share.

Seems to me you would much prefer we just continue to bow down at your feet and stay in our places. Or maybe its that you get a kick out of watching us fumble around trying to figure this crap out while you laugh at us and feel superior.

Im just guessing of course. The only thing Im sure of is that your excuse is 100% BS.
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I guess all of the info i provide must be BS but it seems you dont mind using it on OG as your own, amazing how you came up with that idea of using a fabric root chambers to provide free drainage, root pruning and evap cooling. Buying and trying nozzles is expensive, you cant send them back if they dont work and what works in one chamber doesnt work in another, folks seem to want all the groundwork done for them these days. I usually only share nozzle info via pm but i`ll make an exception just for you because it will be interesting to see what you do with the info when you have it. You will need a 2m x 1m x 0.5m (1000L) chamber and 2x spraying systems SUN23 pressure fed, flat fan AA nozzles. These nozzles require both pressurised air and liquid supplies, air pressure 30- 45psi, liquid 10psi- 30psi. You`ll need a reliable compressor to run them as they can consume over 3scfm. Worst case for your current compressor (set for 90psi-46psi) is it would run for 2 minutes upto twice an hour 24/7. I run 4 of these nozzles comfortably on a 3.3cfm homebrew silent compressor with a 50L tank and 2 external tanks, repurposed 19kg propane cylinders (capacity 43L each).
Attached pics of nozzles and the kind of mist they produce. The rest is upto you. Good luck
 

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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
I guess all of the info i provide must be BS but it seems you dont mind using it on OG as your own, amazing how you came up with that idea of using a fabric root chambers to provide free drainage, root pruning and evap cooling.
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Actually, I have given you full credit for all of that as well as the info you provided on flow rate targets, droplet size ranges, hang times, various on/off times, target chamber temperatures, sizes, and all the other info you have provided in little drips and drops. Several different times in fact. In addition to credits in open posts, I have posted a doc file with all the AA and HPA notes I gathered from you and tree farmer, and a few others - while being sure to say who the info came from - in different threads - more than once. Guess you missed all that.

So, your saying nozzles are the only pieces of grow equipment that cant be returned after you use them, and thats why you dont share the info with everyone? I know you dont share the info with everyone who asks in the forums, so how do you pick and choose who to share with privately and who to ignore?

Other than me of course.

Thanks for that bit of nozzle info. I will add it to the doc file, and pass it along to anyone who asks - publicly or privately.

With full credit to you of course.
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
mytwhyt said:
Larry, how long did that grow take?
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The C99 grow (HPA, photo period) was almost 5 months. The last two auto grows (AA) were both about 3 months. The CBD autos Im starting now are supposed to be faster - 63 days from sprout to harvest.
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Atomizer said:
folks seem to want all the groundwork done for them these days.
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Forgot about this part.

Thats the whole purpose of these forums - to share what works and what does not work - so people dont have to re-invent the wheel every single time, and waste time, and money many of us dont have to spare, and so newbies can have half an f'ing chance at success.

I know that was a long run-on sentence, but did you not know that?

Seriously. Why are you here if not to help others be successful?
 
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Larry3215

Well-Known Member
Sorry to the rest of you, but Im gong to pound the point home one more time to Atomizer.

When was the last time you saw a post - on any forum anywhere - where someone asking about light fixtures was told that they were too expensive and couldnt be returned, so no details would be shared? How about grow tents? Ever see anyone not share info about them except to a select few in PM's? Recirculating pumps? Heaters or filters maybe? RDWC systems?

Anything at all?

Ever?

Except for you of course.

Ever see newbies get told to go screw themselves because they were asking to have "all the ground work done for them"? I actually have seen that a few times, but its generally in the form of "read the FAQ, then come back" rather than dont bother me.

Oh wait. I just remembered you, and I think it was tree farmer, and one or two others got together, and decided not to share certain info about AA growing with anyone else. I forget now if that thread was on this forum or not, but I think so.
 
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