Advice on Lollipopping and Defoliation

Hello.

I'm a first time grower (DWC). I never grew a plant in my life previously, and I need advice in regards to cutting branches and leaves.
Since it's my first time growing, i am *very* hesitant to start chopping branches off and leaves. It just don't feel right after so much money and effort i put into this, and also I don't want to hurt them.

My plan is to kinda lollipop them, just get rid of maybe 10% of the plant bottoms up. Maybe 10% would not be exactly lollipop but just get rid of the bottom leaves a bit.
Defoliation... maybe few large leaves on the top that are basically blocking all the light to the middle of the plant.

Would other methods such as LST, or supercropping be more advisable (manipulating them so the leaves don't block light to middle of the plant).

Anyway, here they are. Two plants in DWC, 31 days after germination. I topped the bigger one on the right





I have limited vertical and horizontal space. Will try to do LST to kinda save on space, but the leaves are generally all over the place.

You could probably turn the power on your light down a little.

I would do a combination. LST and try to spread out what you can and defoliate the lowest not getting direct lighting and selectively defoliate bigger fan leaves blocking up and coming branches/sites. Open it up some for light penetration and air flow. This will allow energy to be put into getting bigger branches and new leaf development.

White.Black said:

Hello.

I'm a first time grower (DWC). I never grew a plant in my life previously, and I need advice in regards to cutting branches and leaves.
Since it's my first time growing, i am *very* hesitant to start chopping branches off and leaves. It just don't feel right after so much money and effort i put into this, and also I don't want to hurt them.

My plan is to kinda lollipop them, just get rid of maybe 10% of the plant bottoms up. Maybe 10% would not be exactly lollipop but just get rid of the bottom leaves a bit.
Defoliation... maybe few large leaves on the top that are basically blocking all the light to the middle of the plant.

Would other methods such as LST, or supercropping be more advisable (manipulating them so the leaves don't block light to middle of the plant).

Anyway, here they are. Two plants in DWC, 31 days after germination. I topped the bigger one on the right

View attachment 5131027

View attachment 5131029

I have limited vertical and horizontal space. Will try to do LST to kinda save on space, but the leaves are generally all over the place.

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What strains are they and when are you going to flower them? Lollipopping is usually done around day one of flower and again about 3 weeks later to remove the heavy accumulated vegetation from the stretch. You can do it any level you want at any time you want, but most people do it around then and remove anything that won't get adequate light. It helps prevent mold and pest problems as well as allow the plant to direct more of it's energy to the big buds that get good light at the top of the canopy. I trim all the tiny larfy crap down low early on. I hate trimming popcorn buds and it's just not good quality ever. Anything deeper than about 14" into the plant is getting chopped on my plants. My light needs to be 18" above my plants so I measure down about 30-32" from the light and anything deeper than that gets clipped on day 1. I'll check again after they stretch as the heights have changed from the growth spurt. That way I get nice dense colas and mid sized buds without any fluffy crap.

hotrodharley said:

You could probably turn the power on your light down a little.

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Thanks, I did that. I would like my smaller plant to catch up though...

CaliRootz88 said:

I would do a combination. LST and try to spread out what you can and defoliate the lowest not getting direct lighting and selectively defoliate bigger fan leaves blocking up and coming branches/sites. Open it up some for light penetration and air flow. This will allow energy to be put into getting bigger branches and new leaf development.

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Yeah, that makes sense. Will do that in the next few days.

FirstCavApache64 said:

What strains are they and when are you going to flower them? Lollipopping is usually done around day one of flower and again about 3 weeks later to remove the heavy accumulated vegetation from the stretch. You can do it any level you want at any time you want, but most people do it around then and remove anything that won't get adequate light. It helps prevent mold and pest problems as well as allow the plant to direct more of it's energy to the big buds that get good light at the top of the canopy. I trim all the tiny larfy crap down low early on. I hate trimming popcorn buds and it's just not good quality ever. Anything deeper than about 14" into the plant is getting chopped on my plants. My light needs to be 18" above my plants so I measure down about 30-32" from the light and anything deeper than that gets clipped on day 1. I'll check again after they stretch as the heights have changed from the growth spurt. That way I get nice dense colas and mid sized buds without any fluffy crap.

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It's supposed to be white widow. If they truly are that, I don't know. I bought the seeds from some guy. That's how it goes where I live.

I would like to keep them in veg for at least 2 more weeks, maybe 1 week... but i'm running out of space. If they stretch out 50% after i put it on 12/12, I'm kinda in trouble unless I do something like LST and super crop... even then it will be tricky. They are so bushy and wide. I'm gonna start with LST first in few days then switch to flower in 2 weeks if it looks like it will be possible.
I topped the bigger plant about 5 days ago. Not sure how long I should keep it in veg after doing that.

I will do a bit of trimming down at the bottom, and then see if needs trimming on the first or second day of flowering again.

I did not top the smaller plant. I wanted to stop the bigger one from growing so fast, so i topped it... but the smaller one did not really catch up that much. Should I top the smaller one too, and just switch them both to flower in about 10 days time?

Sorry for noob questions, I just have no idea what's ahead of me. I read bunch of reports, journals, forums, etc... but none of that prepares you for real life stuff really, as all setups, environments, plants...are different.

No problem, what's the height of your tent and what's the distance you need for your light? The white widow is going to come close to doubling in size when you flip at worst so keep that in mind. Sativa's can stretch 3- 3.5 their length at flip during stretch so be happy you have mostly indica dominant hybrid seeds.

Tent is 4.9f (150 cm, 58"). Lights hang 11 inches lower than the top of the tent, and I can raise them by about 5 more inches.

Total plant height (with the DWC tote) 28 inches (tote box is 11 inches tall, so plant is 17 inches tall.

Space between plant and lights are 25 inch right now.
So if the plant doubles in size, it 34 inch... which is more than the space I have. So I'm in trouble.

Lights are MARS HYDRO SP 3000 LEDs (300w)

I'd be flipping them now unless you have a really good reason not to.

Since it's mostly indica it might just stretch like .5 but expect it to double and you'll be prepared.

I thought they are not mature yet to flip.

I just topped the bigger one 5 days ago, is it ok to flip it that soon, or it doesn't matter?
Should I top the smaller one too or leave it?

I'm changing nutes tomorrow, so I can switch it tomorrow or the next day.

In a perfect world you like to see alternating nodes on the main stems before you flip. I also like my indica plants to veg a good bit because I've read it helps with terpenes in flower but I don't know if that's true. It was from a breeder regarding his particular seeds so it's not exactly science. Your problem is space however. Flipping 5 days after topping is fine, she's has time to recover and will use the stretch to grow those new tops. Try taking a couple of the really big fat leaves with long stems that are blocking the secondary bud sites if you don't want to really defoliate too much. That will help. Also get the leaves down low by the reservoir that are blocking airflow and are farthest from the light. Start slow and take some pics. You can always take more later.

Ok. I did not plan on flipping yet, but it does sound like a good idea because space issues.
Will change nutes tomorrow morning... and set the timer on 12/12, so it will veg for that one more day, and the next day is on 12/12.

Then will trim at the bottom, and remove few of the leaves at the top. I did not expect it to grow this fast. It's been a month since it was a seedling.

If it works out, I guess it's good for the first attempt.

Thank you for the help.

You can always give them another week. With some advice, if they start getting crazy during stretch we can help you super crop them.

They look terrific for a first grow, super healthy. Think it over for a day. An extra week of be growth won't double your yield or anything though. Keeping it manageable in size and away from the lights might be a better call but take a bit to think it over. You don't need to give them flower nutes right away anyway. They still need nitrogen right when you flip. I don't switch to flower nutes for a week. Then I do 50/50 for a week so they still have the nitrogen for the growth spurt of the stretch.

Fwiw I'd also flip them.
A month from seedling is good to flip in my book 28/33 days for me is the average, after flipping you still have 3 weeks of vertical/veg growth before it settles into flowering, if you have limited space you need to keep on top of it or ask for advice about it.
Welcome to RIU

Eta... I feed the same nutrient throughout the crop but if I used grow/bloom I wouldn't change to bloom until sometime wk 2-3.

They grow exceptionally fast, especially the right one. It's noticeable on a daily basis... I topped her to stop her from growing that fast, and for the little one to catch up. The root system is a lot more complicated of the right one than the left one. Not sure if that's the cause of it's growth or it's genetics. I will clone them.

So space truly is an issue, but could be managed by LST and super crop. I already bought some gardening wire yesterday.

I would like to top the smaller one too now that I'm about to flip...but if I do, I would need to wait 2-3 days before flip for it to recover.
Reason ... looking for bigger yield. Maybe not necessary as one of them is already topped.

Star Dog said:

Fwiw I'd also flip them.
A month from seedling is good to flip in my book 28/33 days for me is the average, after flipping you still have 3 weeks of vertical/veg growth before it settles into flowering, if you have limited space you need to keep on top of it or ask for advice about it.
Welcome to RIU

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Up until today I had no idea that I should be flipping them any time soon. Glad I asked !!
Thanks!

White.Black said:

They grow exceptionally fast, especially the right one. It's noticeable on a daily basis... I topped her to stop her from growing that fast, and for the little one to catch up. The root system is a lot more complicated of the right one than the left one. Not sure if that's the cause of it's growth or it's genetics. I will clone them.

So space truly is an issue, but could be managed by LST and super crop. I already bought some gardening wire yesterday.

I would like to top the smaller one too now that I'm about to flip...but if I do, I would need to wait 2-3 days before flip for it to recover.
Reason ... looking for bigger yield. Maybe not necessary as one of them is already topped.




Up until today I had no idea that I should be flipping them any time soon. Glad I asked !!
Thanks!

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Just a suggestion but I'd tie it over, that way every branch will be a cola, if you tie it, it'll be facing up by tomorrow.
Equal better yeild

Tying it over sounds like a good idea generally. Will see to do that today around 5pm. Lights turn on at 8 pm, so it will have whole night to face up.
Will do all of that, plus a bit of trimming at the bottom and take few pics. I guess will not top the smaller one, will just tie it down too, and wait a day or two before flipping.

Let's see how it goes.

You guys have been immensely helpful.

White.Black said:

Tying it over sounds like a good idea generally. Will see to do that today around 5pm. Lights turn on at 8 pm, so it will have whole night to face up.
Will do all of that, plus a bit of trimming at the bottom and take few pics. I guess will not top the smaller one, will just tie it down too, and wait a day or two before flipping.

Let's see how it goes.

You guys have been immensely helpful.

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A little tip for you to avoid snapping/buckling the stem... Holding the stem just below where you want to bend it take your other hand and twist the stem back and forth gently to begin with then gradually adding more pressure, move up 1/1.5" and repeat, you'll feel it softening.

I have a plant in my backup location where I veg my plants since we're only allowed 4 plants that was getting too tall so I super cropped the tops by crushing the stems and bending it over 90 degrees. I was really aggressive with it since I'm not planning on flowering it anytime soon, it's a mother plant to harvest clones from so I had to support the branches for a couple days but they are forming big nuckles now that will be like nutrient freeways. We can do a gentle version of this with yours if they get too close to the lights. It won't hurt them if done right and it's a good skill to practice and learn.