Actual Value of Marijuana?

SmokeyMcSmokester

SmokeyMcSmokester

Well-Known Member
Dr. Greenhorn said:
I been good smokey. not growing much right now, just 3 plants. hahahaha but still growing:D I get all edgy and depressed if I don't grow
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i hear ya on that..i cant even smoke weed and i still grow because i love it!! i have a platinum og grow going in my 36 site aero...gonna start a jack herer grow in a week or so, waiting for my moms to give me enough decent clones.

OP sorry to thread jack..
 
mccumcumber

mccumcumber

Well-Known Member
Indoor doesn't costs absurd amounts to produce. Especially with water prices as low as they are in California (for you hydro/aero growers). Right now top shelf indoor goes for $250/oz in my area so I don't see how $250/oz is a drop at all. I'd say that an ounce of indoor could go for as cheap as $150 in the future when it becomes legal. Indoor will still be done, but solar pannels will be put into play, because really, who wants to pay that ridiculous electric bill when they can get their energy for free... not me. Solar pannels will also cause the cost of indoor to go down tremendously. You have to look at all the factors man.
I've also seen some outdoor that shit all over some indoor, it really depends who's growing it. Outdoor is A LOT harder to master than indoor, but if done right makes amazing weed.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Snow Crash said:
On one acre a person can grow an easy 1200 plants each with a 6x6 foot print outdoors.
So figure on 4 acres (one football field long and two wide) that's nearing 4,800 plants. At say 5lbs per plant on the average that is a good 24,000lbs, 12 tons, of bud.

On a scale of this size, which isn't much really, electric trimmers are a must. These are pricey up front but will save time and cost on hand trimmers.

This farm could be run from start to finish with 6 to 8 people. You'd need a master gardener/supervisor, an accountant/front man, 3 or 4 farm hands, and at least one security officer. Paying these people should work on a "commission" style sliding structure where they make a reasonable flat rate plus a percentage of the profits after covering expenses. Expect probably 500,000 in salary for the spring to fall seasons, plus 10 to 20% of the profits as well. The Master Gardener and Accountant/Front man are going to be splitting the rest of the profits.

So let's pretend a person has 10 acres of land in that gorgeous ribbon of weather in Northern California. Cost: $150,000. The set up a green house, a few buildings for supplies, maybe add in a pond, large tea brewing systems with plumbing, trim/dry house, septic, utilities, etc, and this adds another $350,000 to the cost of the property in total.

So figure probably $750,000 to $1.5 million to get the whole project off the ground and through the first harvest. Even at 1.5 mil each pound could go for $65 and still turn a small profit.
The next harvest is less expensive because land and infrastructure are present.

There are unforseen costs that have to be covered. "Insurance" against a bad season, fire, or theft is rolled into the cost per pound. Also their will be some form of permitting and tax requirements as well that cannot be estimated accurately.

So... I think if the cost to the MFG is $65 per pound then they can sell that product for $100 on the pound to a whole seller, who then sells to the retailer at $150 on the pound, who then turns around and sells to the public at about $180 on the pound. About $0.50 per joint, or about $10 a pack. Then add in additional cannabis tax, and you're looking at maybe $14.50 for a pack of 20 cigarette sized joints at your local gas station.

The MFG will net 2.4 million a year, with annual operating costs in the 1 million range.

Now imagine what a big corp could do with tens of millions of dollars and hundreds of acres.

Legalization would allow for $20 ounces of outdoor organics for sure.
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:) Never done a large scale outdoor op right?
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
veggiegardener said:
Agreed!

Firstly, show me anybody that can grow over 4000 lbs per acre and I'll give him brownie points, galore.

There are physical limits.

Secondly, who's going to do all the free trimming? Currently trimmers receive $150-$200/lb for hard, tedious work(my aching back).

I've done the homework on a 100,000 lb/annually operation with multiple harvests in greenhouses set up to black out the interior for flowering and lights for vegging.

Start up would be $2,000,000, and total cost to build would be $6,000,000, after two years.

If my numbers are accurate(and they are) ounces would reach the consumer at $65, or roughly $1000/lb.

That is rock bottom, using every available technique to increase efficiency.

We based our numbers on the use of these greenhouses. Awesome design!

http://www.foreverflowering.net/
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I completely agree. Anything produced for less than that will be of a quality that is so low that Californians would not purchase it.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
veggiegardener said:
Another thing.

I was taught that I couldn't go wrong, voting my pocket book.

In nearly 40 years of never missing an election, I've never regretted that policy.

Anybody who does otherwise is an idiot.

Our first duty is to the welfare of our family.

Who doesn't get THAT?
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Even though I disagree with your opinions on the effects prop 19 will have I do agree with what you say here. When everyone votes based on how a particular ballot measures effects them personally, we end up with laws that fairly represent the people.

There are exceptions to that of course. There are certain exceptions where minority viewpoints deserve protection from the majority like civil rights issues etc.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
mrboots said:
Why not? A 400% markup from the grower's costs to your pipe. Thats not too outrageous compared to other products
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Retail overhead. It's very expensive to run a dispensary. There is some excessive markup due to prohibition for sure, but even running a small dispensary is very expensive.

When you order a drink from a restaurant it does have what seems to be an excessive markup, but you can't just look at wholesale/retail prices. A restaurant could be charging a 5000% markup on drinks and still not make a profit over all.
 
Snow Crash

Snow Crash

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
:) Never done a large scale outdoor op right?
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Very wrong.
Not that I give a shit about what you trolls think. I didn't post for debate.
Don't make assumptions about other people on here. You might know a thing or two about growing (based on the knowledge level of the forum I'd doubt it), but you don't know shit about me.

I've also worked on vineyards, orchards, and in logistics for a produce company. My real world experience exceeds cannabis.

You want to see someone growing like this now?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164917

And how does this guy trim his bud?
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=137684

You've obviously never used a trimmer before. Not to say hand trimming isn't needed, just not to the scale you are proposing.

Whatever though, you guys are living in a dream world. I have yet to see someone speak about Fair Market Value or the effect that the repeal of prohibition had on the price of Alcohol. Some of you are saying $250 an ounce. I (could) pay $250 an ounce now for indoor Blue Dream! It makes no sense.

Also, the cost of the plant needs to be regulated to keep all of California's farmers growing food rather than a high value crop like Cannabis. This price fixing will drive the price DOWN not up.
Not like I expect a bunch of stoners to have a firm grip on economics, but I'm still surprised by some of the ignorance. Just a lot of narrow minded, short sighted, uneducated, dribble.

You're going on ignore. Ahh, how I love ignore.
 
veggiegardener

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Dan Kone said:
Even though I disagree with your opinions on the effects prop 19 will have I do agree with what you say here. When everyone votes based on how a particular ballot measures effects them personally, we end up with laws that fairly represent the people.

There are exceptions to that of course. There are certain exceptions where minority viewpoints deserve protection from the majority like civil rights issues etc.
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We are in agreement, 100% on each of those statements.

Protecting a minority opinion is fine, as long as the minority opinion doesn't put others in jail.

The evangelical right(teabaggers, etc.) want to do precisely that. Inflict their own superstitious set of values on the saner majority.
 
veggiegardener

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Snow Crash said:
Very wrong.
Not that I give a shit about what you trolls think. I didn't post for debate.
Don't make assumptions about other people on here. You might know a thing or two about growing (based on the knowledge level of the forum I'd doubt it), but you don't know shit about me.

I've also worked on vineyards, orchards, and in logistics for a produce company. My real world experience exceeds cannabis.

You want to see someone growing like this now?
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=164917

And how does this guy trim his bud?
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=137684

You've obviously never used a trimmer before. Not to say hand trimming isn't needed, just not to the scale you are proposing.

Whatever though, you guys are living in a dream world. I have yet to see someone speak about Fair Market Value or the effect that the repeal of prohibition had on the price of Alcohol. Some of you are saying $250 an ounce. I (could) pay $250 an ounce now for indoor Blue Dream! It makes no sense.

Also, the cost of the plant needs to be regulated to keep all of California's farmers growing food rather than a high value crop like Cannabis. This price fixing will drive the price DOWN not up.
Not like I expect a bunch of stoners to have a firm grip on economics, but I'm still surprised by some of the ignorance. Just a lot of narrow minded, short sighted, uneducated, dribble.

You're going on ignore. Ahh, how I love ignore.
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Obviously, you've never done a large scale grow... LOL

I've been gardening all my life. Spent my early years on my Grandparents' ranch.

My friends were all ranchers and their kids.

Your yield estimates seem to indicate that Cannabis produces flowers like corn and wheat produce seeds.

Firstly, gardeners MUST be able to move among the plants, or spraying for bud worms and other sprays becomes impractical. Figure about 25% of the area is dedicated to walking space.

43560 sq. ft. x .75 = 32670 available sq. ft for planting area. I would plant on a 3' x 10' grid, maintaining the walking area up to 6' with screens. Depending on strain, further growth would fill in some of the area over the path. 1452 plants.

Assuming each plant fills 24 sq. ft. with overhang, a good estimate of maximum yield would be 40 grams x 24 sq. ft. x 1452 plants = 3073 pounds.

Anybody who beats 40 grams per square foot outdoors, is spending a LOT of time outdoors, in a large grow.

Everyone here knows about Tom Hill and some of the other growers there.

Considering your defensiveness, I'd guess you're about 19.

With Cannabis, economy of scale only goes so far.

The primary problem a farmer faces is maintaining quality. This takes a lot of human eyes, watching for problems and treating them daily.

Assuming anybody would try, and succeed in growing hundreds of acres of Cannabis more than once is silly.

Trimming is a seasonal endeavor. A top trimmer, with very quick hands might trim 100 pounds per season.

That means you need THIRTY trimmers for EACH acre.

There will be plenty of room for corn and wheat.

The loss of buds using power trimmers offsets any savings in trimming costs, unless the operators are very slow and attentive. Quality of trimming will always be an issue with consumers.(Oh! There's a LEAF!!!)

There will be plenty of room for corn and wheat.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
veggiegardener said:
We are agreement, 100% on each of those statements.

Protecting a minority opinion is fine, as long as the minority opinion doesn't put others in jail.

The evangelical right(teabaggers, etc.) want to do precisely that. Inflict their own superstitious set of values on the saner majority.
Click to expand...
[video=youtube;nnUfPQVOqpw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnUfPQVOqpw&feature=aso[/video]
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
veggiegardener said:
The loss of buds using power trimmers offsets any savings in trimming costs, unless the operators are very slow and attentive. Quality of trimming will always be an issue with consumers.(Oh! There's a LEAF!!!)
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Not to mention the vibration of those trimmers knocks the crystals off the buds and makes the buds look like manufactured crap. Considering what trimming machines do, they are dirt cheap. (yes, +2k is cheap considering what they do) There are many very good reasons people still pay trimmers. They are worth it.
 
Dan Kone

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
beardo said:
so you do not believe that our government should protect our country from invasion by another nation?
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Sure I do. I think everyone agrees it would be bad if we were taken over by another country. I don't see that as a very likely possibility though.
 
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