A Way Out ...

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
Article I, Section 10 of the Constitution states: "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; ...."

The Constitution is the law of the land, therefore a state may pay its own debts in Federal Reserve Notes, but is forbidden to REQUIRE citizens to pay debts to the state in Federal Reserve Notes.

The way out is, if every citizen were to read Article I, Section 10, then explore it from a historical standpoint, learn why the Founders put that section into the Constitution, then take bold action, we would soon be out of our state and national debt problem.

We can refuse to pay government (state) debts like income taxes, sales taxes, DMV fees, etc., in FERNs and insist that these government departments start abiding by the Law of the Land. Here's the facts; we have not been issued gold and silver coin, the public mints have been closed, so we cannot have gold and silver coins minted in said amounts to facilitate paying sales taxes, income taxes and other government fees.

So, if we really had the testiculars ( is that a word?), the next time we do our shopping at WalMart or CostCo, we would tell the cashier, after the bill is totaled up, that we will only pay for the cost of the goods, but we will not pay the sales tax, because we don't have any Constitutionally authorized money to pay the tax. Then we would just walk out of the store with our goods, paid for, sans the tax.

Comments?
 
I think you should read it again.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The Constitution clearly delegates Congress to collect income tax.

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
 
Article I, Section 10 of the Constitution states: "No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; ...."

The Constitution is the law of the land, therefore a state may pay its own debts in Federal Reserve Notes, but is forbidden to REQUIRE citizens to pay debts to the state in Federal Reserve Notes.

The way out is, if every citizen were to read Article I, Section 10, then explore it from a historical standpoint, learn why the Founders put that section into the Constitution, then take bold action, we would soon be out of our state and national debt problem.

We can refuse to pay government (state) debts like income taxes, sales taxes, DMV fees, etc., in FERNs and insist that these government departments start abiding by the Law of the Land. Here's the facts; we have not been issued gold and silver coin, the public mints have been closed, so we cannot have gold and silver coins minted in said amounts to facilitate paying sales taxes, income taxes and other government fees.

So, if we really had the testiculars ( is that a word?), the next time we do our shopping at WalMart or CostCo, we would tell the cashier, after the bill is totaled up, that we will only pay for the cost of the goods, but we will not pay the sales tax, because we don't have any Constitutionally authorized money to pay the tax. Then we would just walk out of the store with our goods, paid for, sans the tax.

Comments?

i think ur misunderstanding what its saying.....and if we dont pay taxes how do we get out of debt???
 
So, if we really had the testiculars ( is that a word?), the next time we do our shopping at WalMart or CostCo, we would tell the cashier, after the bill is totaled up, that we will only pay for the cost of the goods, but we will not pay the sales tax, because we don't have any Constitutionally authorized money to pay the tax. Then we would just walk out of the store with our goods, paid for, sans the tax.

I like your thinking, unfortunatley you would walk out of the store with an empty basket. Fuck it. While we're at it, try buying something at Walmart or Costco with a gold bar.
 
Just imagine how screwed up the IRS would get if the majority of people decided not to pay their income taxes this year.
 
Notice the OP cut the text off mid quote? It's because the reminder of the text makes the rest of the post moot.

make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts......
....which expressly forbids any state government (but not the federal government) from "making a tender" (i.e., authorizing something that may be offered in payment) of any type or form of money to meet any financial obligation,[63] unless that form of money is coins made of gold or silver (or a medium of exchange backed by and redeemable in gold or silver coins, as noted in Farmers & Merchants Bank v. Federal Reserve Bank
 
Cool, so we have legal tender laws that say one MUST accept federal reserve notes in payment of debts, but where does it say that any individual MUST pay in federal reserve notes?
 
It is impossible to pay debts off with federal reserve notes. Federal reserve notes ARE debt. Cannot pay off debt with debt.

FRN's only satisfy the terms of the contract, they aren't really paying debt off.
 
So, if we really had the testiculars ( is that a word?), the next time we do our shopping at WalMart or CostCo, we would tell the cashier, after the bill is totaled up, that we will only pay for the cost of the goods, but we will not pay the sales tax, because we don't have any Constitutionally authorized money to pay the tax. Then we would just walk out of the store with our goods, paid for, sans the tax.

I like your thinking, unfortunatley you would walk out of the store with an empty basket. Fuck it. While we're at it, try buying something at Walmart or Costco with a gold bar.

If I were a cashier at walmart and you tried to buy something with a gold bar... hell... I'd probably take it and pay your total for you.
 
It is impossible to pay debts off with federal reserve notes. Federal reserve notes ARE debt. Cannot pay off debt with debt.

FRN's only satisfy the terms of the contract, they aren't really paying debt off.

Dude, ya gotta keep it simple. The next thing you know, you'll be asking where the money comes from to pay the interest debt if they don't ever loan the interest. :lol:

 
are we talking about those green things i keep in my wallet to buy food?

because if we are, most businesses list them on the ledger as an asset, not a liability :dunce:

They should list them as a rapidly depreciating asset.

I'll trade you a twenty dollar federal reserve note for a twenty dollar american gold eagle, watcha say ... fair deal?:lol:
 
are we talking about those green things i keep in my wallet to buy food?

because if we are, most businesses list them on the ledger as an asset, not a liability :dunce:
Yeah, since the only way for a dollar to exist is for someone to take out a loan for it. Since it can only exist when created from nothing and credited to your transaction account means that every dollar in existence is really just a representation of someone elses debt.

What will really blow your mind is the fact that if every loan were paid off, money would not exist. But the interest would still be due. Charlie kinda segued into that.
 
Yeah, since the only way for a dollar to exist is for someone to take out a loan for it. Since it can only exist when created from nothing and credited to your transaction account means that every dollar in existence is really just a representation of someone elses debt.

What will really blow your mind is the fact that if every loan were paid off, money would not exist. But the interest would still be due. Charlie kinda segued into that.

funny, i trade those things for food and gas all the time. it seems to work. not sure why if they are so useless.
 
funny, i trade those things for food and gas all the time. it seems to work. not sure why if they are so useless.

I don't recall anyone saying that FRNs are useless. Only that eventually they will become worthless.

They've lost over 80% of their value since the FED was established in 1913. What more proof do you need that we need to go back to honest money?

A gold American Eagle was worth $20 dollars in 1913. Its worth about $1620 today. In other words, you would need 1,620 Federal Reserve one dollar notes to buy one American gold eagle today, when in 1920, you would have needed only twenty Federal Reserve one dollar notes to buy that same gold coin.
 
I don't recall anyone saying that FRNs are useless. Only that eventually they will become worthless.

They've lost over 80% of their value since the FED was established in 1913. What more proof do you need that we need to go back to honest money?

A gold American Eagle was worth $20 dollars in 1913. Its worth about $1620 today. In other words, you would need 1,620 Federal Reserve one dollar notes to buy one American gold eagle today, when in 1920, you would have needed only twenty Federal Reserve one dollar notes to buy that same gold coin.


sounds like one asset has been more stable than the other to me.

and nodrama, i never said they were useless. i said my patterns of using them to buy goods and services seems odd IF they are so useless.
 
Again, only you have used the word"useless "to describe a FRN. No one else in the thread used such a word or made such inference.

"if"

surely you do not have aphasia with respect to the word "if". when people write "stiff", do you nly see "stf"?
 
I don't think you are getting it. You accused me of calling the FRN useless. We have proven that only you used that word. Your accusation is baseless therefore your argument has no merit. Thats the way these things work. You make a claim, I refute that claim, you pretend you never made the claim in the first place.
 
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