A Simple Question

Yeah, enforcement isn't all they do, they fine and sanction too. Do they have the authority to Imprison someone? Do EPA agents carry firearms?

Guess they have the Authority to end your life also. Does it seem odd that a agency devoted to life is now armed and trained and willing to now take life?
Okay, they have guns? How often you think they use 'em? Seems like a kind of pointless exercise imo... safety precaution? IDK. I doubt they use them often, at least compared to most other agencies... I dont think I've ever turned on the news to "EPA agents engaged pollution suspects... Two suspects killed by gunshot wound"...

I'm going to google it real quick...

http://www.eenews.net/public/Greenwire/2011/02/04/1
Yousef Abuteir's wanted poster stands out among the 16 on U.S. EPA's Web page for environmental fugitives -- and not just because it's the most recent addition to the two-year-old list.

After a rundown of aliases, a physical description and a brief explanation of how he conspired to dodge federal excise taxes in a diesel fuel scam, there is a line written in bold letters. It reads: "Abuteir is known to carry a weapon at all times."

Also, according to that link, there are only 200 special agents in the EPA compared to a total of 17,000 total employees so it's not like they're all packing ... 3 agents have died in the 27 years since the EPA began carrying badges and guns so it seems apparently the job is a bit more dangerous than I was willing to give them credit for at least( I mean, I know they are trained in HAZMAT gear and shit too so I was aware of that danger but didn't realize they needed to carry guns).
 
Okay, they have guns? How often you think they use 'em? Seems like a kind of pointless exercise imo... safety precaution? IDK. I doubt they use them often, at least compared to most other agencies... I dont think I've ever turned on the news to "EPA agents engaged pollution suspects... Two suspects killed by gunshot wound"...

I'm going to google it real quick...

http://www.eenews.net/public/Greenwire/2011/02/04/1


Also, according to that link, there are only 200 special agents in the EPA compared to a total of 17,000 total employees so it's not like they're all packing ... 3 agents have died in the 27 years since the EPA began carrying badges and guns so it seems apparently the job is a bit more dangerous than I was willing to give them credit for at least( I mean, I know they are trained in HAZMAT gear and shit too so I was aware of that danger but didn't realize they needed to carry guns).
Couldn't the EPA guys call someone, like I dunno, the local sherrif or police to assist on the arrest? Perhaps the FBI? U.S. Marshals? Maybe the postal inspector, i'm sure he has a gun too. Used to be a time when only law enforcement and military had weapons being carried at all times. Now every federal agency or Sponsored entity has to have guns. Makes me kind of feel like the enemy to the federal government. DHS? yep they got guns. ICE? yep got em. Border Patrol, of course. Seems like there are plenty of resources that already have firearms that perhaps the EPA could enlist them to help? I mean wouldn't that make too much sense?


Know how many Garbage men have died in the line of duty in the last 5 years? Over 200. Perhaps we should give them Sub-Machine guns.

Of those 3 agents of the EPA who have died, how many were by rail , car, plane or accident? how many were killed by bullets?
 
The[epa put 9 of my friends in the unemployment line and gave us ethenol
Yes, Nixon created the EPA with near unanimous support.

Putting environmental law in the hands of the states creates a race to the bottom where states with more loose regulation end up siphoning jobs from states that are more heavily regulated; IMO, this is an unwanted consequence of state level laws. Americans in NY shouldn't lose their jobs because Americans in Kuntucky allow companies to cut corners...

The agents working for the EPA work for specific divisions of the EPA, devided into 10 different ones. For example, my home state Oregon is one of four states( Alaska, Idaho, Oregon, and Washington) the Northwest division of the EPA watches over... You're telling me they know nothing about local intricacy but it seems to me that they are largely a semi-local entity, at least in terms of enforcement... It's not as if they fly over from Washington to shut down a mine, that's the local office of the EPA's job... They do have headquarters in D.C. but doesn't pretty much every government agency?

Aside from that, they do work with local and state governments and they also work with the indian reservations... So it's not as if they are duplicating state enforcement as much as enhancing it, and making it more consistent and flexible.


You say prices have gone up because of regulation, but all you offer is a single anecdotal; One case does not make a trend.

Also, you say get rid of the EPA? I say even if you dont like laws and enforcement at the Federal level that's STILL no reason to get rid of the EPA entirely... According to Wiki:

So my point here is that even if you toss out law enforcement, there are several alternative functions of the EPA(research, voluntary programs, etc). The State's rights argument is about the only reason the federal government arguably shouldn't be enforcing environmental laws - but even if the States won that battle the EPA should continue to exist, because enforcement isn't all they do.
 
Couldn't the EPA guys call someone, like I dunno, the local sherrif or police to assist on the arrest? Perhaps the FBI? U.S. Marshals? Maybe the postal inspector, i'm sure he has a gun too. Used to be a time when only law enforcement and military had weapons being carried at all times. Now every federal agency or Sponsored entity has to have guns. Makes me kind of feel like the enemy to the federal government. DHS? yep they got guns. ICE? yep got em. Border Patrol, of course. Seems like there are plenty of resources that already have firearms that perhaps the EPA could enlist them to help? I mean wouldn't that make too much sense?


Know how many Garbage men have died in the line of duty in the last 5 years? Over 200. Perhaps we should give them Sub-Machine guns.

Of those 3 agents of the EPA who have died, how many were by rail , car, plane or accident? how many were killed by bullets?

They're here to protect you
 
Couldn't the EPA guys call someone, like I dunno, the local sherrif or police to assist on the arrest? Perhaps the FBI? U.S. Marshals? Maybe the postal inspector, i'm sure he has a gun too. Used to be a time when only law enforcement and military had weapons being carried at all times. Now every federal agency or Sponsored entity has to have guns. Makes me kind of feel like the enemy to the federal government. DHS? yep they got guns. ICE? yep got em. Border Patrol, of course. Seems like there are plenty of resources that already have firearms that perhaps the EPA could enlist them to help? I mean wouldn't that make too much sense?


Know how many Garbage men have died in the line of duty in the last 5 years? Over 200. Perhaps we should give them Sub-Machine guns.

Of those 3 agents of the EPA who have died, how many were by rail , car, plane or accident? how many were killed by bullets?
Why shouldn't they have guns though? The law protects people from excessive force, doesn't it? If it's just a safety precaution what is so wrong about them having them?

edit: The garbage truck argument isn't really the same at all IMO. There isn't really a threat outside of safety concerns for Garbage men, where as the EPA is in part a law enforcement agency and so presumably deals with criminals. From another article, found here:
The office charged 289 defendants in 2010, up from 200 in 2009. But the total number of defendants was still well below the 372 charged in 2001 or 360 charged in 2000. The office also topped 300 defendants charged in 2002 and 2005.
My point? If you're dealing with criminals that often wouldn't it make sense that even when you dont really expect them to violent and/or armed that you are armed just on the off chance they do pull a gun?
 
Why shouldn't they have guns though? The law protects people from excessive force, doesn't it? If it's just a safety precaution what is so wrong about them having them?

edit: The garbage truck argument isn't really the same at all IMO. There isn't really a threat outside of safety concerns for Garbage men, where as the EPA is in part a law enforcement agency and so presumably deals with criminals. From another article, found here:

My point? If you're dealing with criminals that often wouldn't it make sense that even when you dont really expect them to violent and/or armed that you are armed just on the off chance they do pull a gun?


So my buddies who crawl around underground 12 hours a day to provide electric for you is a criminal? Wow!

Your a trip. Please keep talking. You're the best weapon conservatives have!
 
The[epa put 9 of my friends in the unemployment line and gave us ethenol

oh, poor jeff.

everything is the fault of someone else, usually the government.

boo hoo. i am a sad sexual harassment panda.

aren't you from the party of personal responsibility?
 
all this federal bullshit is a powergrab and has no business or need in our society. my local politicians, regulations protect us just fine. there is no need to duplicate this shit federally.

yep, george wallace would have done an awesome job desegregating at the local level.

a local miner was shut down here about 2 months ago because he didnt have the right safety equiptment in his mine.

yeah, fuck safety equipment for mining. that shit is for pussies! mines are as safe as can be, no need for any extra precautions.
 
Why shouldn't they have guns though? The law protects people from excessive force, doesn't it? If it's just a safety precaution what is so wrong about them having them?

edit: The garbage truck argument isn't really the same at all IMO. There isn't really a threat outside of safety concerns for Garbage men, where as the EPA is in part a law enforcement agency and so presumably deals with criminals. From another article, found here:

My point? If you're dealing with criminals that often wouldn't it make sense that even when you dont really expect them to violent and/or armed that you are armed just on the off chance they do pull a gun?

Wow we pay 17,000 people per year and prosecute 200-300. Seems real efficient. What does the average person in the EPA make? $50k? Just looked it up, its $55,000 a year. take that times 17,000 and you have $935 million just for payroll. How much will they have to fine people on average to justify their own pay? About 3-4 million each, average EPA fine is $30,000. Just a big bloated, overpaid, gun toting, trigger happy, Federal waste of taxpayer money.


Felons should be allowed to carry guns as much as anyone else, Don't they deserve the right to use guns as a safety precaution also? Shouldn't anyone by your very own reasoning?
 
oh, poor jeff.

everything is the fault of someone else, usually the government.

boo hoo. i am a sad sexual harassment panda.

aren't you from the party of personal responsibility?

Never have to worry about you getting fined into bankruptcy will we? You are allergic to hard working rednecks.
I will inform them that they should "marry up " next time.
 
yep, george wallace would have done an awesome job desegregating at the local level.



yeah, fuck safety equipment for mining. that shit is for pussies! mines are as safe as can be, no need for any extra precautions.


In over 100 years of mining they never had a fatal accident.

It's too bad you're dumb. How's the starbucks coffee in the nice air conditioned suburbs?
 
Never have to worry about you getting fined into bankruptcy will we? You are allergic to hard working rednecks.
I will inform them that they should "marry up " next time.

it's all about me, isn't it?

like i said, aren't you supposed to be the party of personal responsibility?
 
In over 100 years of mining they never had a fatal accident.

It's too bad you're dumb. How's the starbucks coffee in the nice air conditioned suburbs?

oh noes, i am dumb!

my air conditioner consists of two screen doors i just built to let the air flow through. not sure about the coffee but the beer is ice cold :)
 
Wow we pay 17,000 people per year and prosecute 200-300. Seems real efficient. What does the average person in the EPA make? $50k? Just looked it up, its $55,000 a year. take that times 17,000 and you have $935 million just for payroll. How much will they have to fine people on average to justify their own pay? About 3-4 million each, average EPA fine is $30,000. Just a big bloated, overpaid, gun toting, trigger happy, Federal waste of taxpayer money.
Well, as I said already more than half of the EPA doesn't have to do with enforcement at all so that's not really accurate to say we spend $935 million to prosecute 200-300 people a year...


Felons should be allowed to carry guns as much as anyone else, Don't they deserve the right to use guns as a safety precaution also? Shouldn't anyone by your very own reasoning?
No, not at all. An EPA agent, or any other law enforcement official is going to be in good standing with the law and whether they were an agent or not would have the right to own a gun anyway; Felons are barred from owning a gun in most cases and so that makes this a bad comparison IMO.

If you want to argue whether or not Felons should be barred from owning guns, my position is that the restriction should be temporary(maybe like 10 years or so) in most cases but surely permanent in cases where a felon has shown they cannot responsibly own a gun (so murderers and shit like that). My dad never took me hunting as a child because he has a few felonies on his record and so cannot legally own a gun... He isn't the same person he once was in all the ways that matter in this case (aggression, disregard for the law, etc) and I'm 100% sure he'd be a responsible gun owner... He should have the chance. But I'm not an absolutist and so I'm not going to be like "LOL MURDERERS SHOULD TOTALLY BE ALLOWED TO HAVE GUNS! NO RESTRICTIONS 2ND AMENDMENT BITCH!" because I feel like that's taking it a bit too far... I am a believer in gun rights (with regulations).
 
Why shouldn't they have guns though? The law protects people from excessive force, doesn't it? If it's just a safety precaution what is so wrong about them having them?

I'm sure Jose Guerena's widow might have an opinion on that.
 
What is it with you and democracy? Everything is NOT "majority rules". The sovereignty of the "individual" is what America is founded on.
I think you must have gone to Indoctrinate U

democracy is great, as long as you are on the side of the majority. mame doesnt understand this yet. but he will, as soon as one of the govt "institutions" kicks his door down.

until then, no blood no foul.
 
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