A noob with a couple questions...

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
What is "F.M.I."? I've read the slang thread and read people refering 2 "FMI-ing" their plant.... Is it topping the plant? What is the benifit of topping and what's the correct way 2 do it?

It's called FIM, it used to mean Fuck I Missed before the technique came along. Just an easy way to remember the name. lol

This is a method, not really topping, you cut 80% off the highest grow tip off the main stem.

Do not try this on plants with less than at least 4 or 5 nodes. I tested that rule and FIMed a 2" plant and she just stopped growing. She didn't die, I'm keeping her alive to see if she snaps out of it, but she just wont grow. So keep that rule in mind.

I'm posting a chart for you so you can see how to make the cut. You're plant will stop growing for 2 or 3 days, that's ok, it's normal.

The benefits are 4 main stems, crazy branching giving more bud sites (and allowing you to take more clones faster), and several Colas (see pic). For some reasons main stems can have more than 1 Cola.

The advantages really depend on you. Bigger plant means more nutes, more water, more lights (not worth it unless you buy MH & HPSs) If you give her what she wants you end up with a monster. I'm not doing it for the first time myself (which is why I experimented and tested that rule I mentioned earlier).

If you don't give her what she wants she wont produce much more MJ than a plant that hasn't been FIMed.

Also, the cut has to be perfect, it takes practice. If your a little off you'll only get 2 main stems or you'll only get 4 or 6 Colas.

Hope all this helps. Let me know if you have any more questions. I'll answer if I can and let you know that I don't know if I can't.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
Hey, good lookin out 4 a rookie. Thank you very much.
Getting back 2 the roots of things. LOL. 2 have a strong root system. ... Wouldn't it be right 2 start vegging under a flowering light 2 start strong roots then bring in the vegging lights 2 keep them growing slowly?
... About cloning, wuts the light schedule 4 them, under what light(b4 rooting & after rooting)? I've got'em under or near my 6700k 24/7. I didn't find any gel so I made a paste out of hormone powder mixed with tap water(that's been in a jug for at least a day) and used the same process u mentioned. I'm hella stoked my 1st couple of clones rooted & transplanted after 1 week with the same light schedule. I didn't plan on taking this grow this far but this is really cool, so I just clipped a few more clones. As far as time and space; I'm good 2 go. Its in my living room(I've got pics 2 post).
Lighting, what I have now was either given 2 me or I bought 4 real cheap at Walmart(2 6700k 10w = $10pr).
I think I'm gunna keep reading about nutes and other lights but yeah I would definitely like 2 step up my lighting if move my plant outta the living room.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
I was sweatin balls but did it! I just FIMed the mother! Should I do anything 2 the cut? The part I cut wasn't much, so the clipping's garbage/useless, right???!
 

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
Hey, good lookin out 4 a rookie. Thank you very much.
Getting back 2 the roots of things. LOL. 2 have a strong root system. ... Wouldn't it be right 2 start vegging under a flowering light 2 start strong roots then bring in the vegging lights 2 keep them growing slowly?
... About cloning, wuts the light schedule 4 them, under what light(b4 rooting & after rooting)? I've got'em under or near my 6700k 24/7. I didn't find any gel so I made a paste out of hormone powder mixed with tap water(that's been in a jug for at least a day) and used the same process u mentioned. I'm hella stoked my 1st couple of clones rooted & transplanted after 1 week with the same light schedule. I didn't plan on taking this grow this far but this is really cool, so I just clipped a few more clones. As far as time and space; I'm good 2 go. Its in my living room(I've got pics 2 post).
Lighting, what I have now was either given 2 me or I bought 4 real cheap at Walmart(2 6700k 10w = $10pr).
I think I'm gunna keep reading about nutes and other lights but yeah I would definitely like 2 step up my lighting if move my plant outta the living room.
I was sweatin balls but did it! I just FIMed the mother! Should I do anything 2 the cut? The part I cut wasn't much, so the clipping's garbage/useless, right???!
... Should the plant go back under the light or wait 4 it 2 heal??? What should I do?

I don't think that starting with a flowering light would help. The plants in veg don't use much of that light spectrum. I beleive there's always an advantage to mixing the two spectrums, but I'd go heavier on veg lights during veg and a lot heavier on flower lights during flower.

You have the right idea on lights for rooting. 24/7 under vegging lights. I can't give you much info on vegging with CFLs because I use 4' fluoros (32w). I have them under 4 of them, but have been told that two would work. I will be vegging after rooting under the same lights, so I keep 4 on.

You got a clone rooted in a week? Are you using plugs? That's great time, but don't worry if some take 2 weeks in plugs.

After rooting you should start increasing lights. Generally speaking, the more light the better. You can have too much light, but with CFLs you usually don't have to worry about it too much.

No problem on the nutes, they're important so learning more is good. But every strain is going to have it's own needs. Don't get stuck in the trap of thinking that what's best for one is best for another. Though the different strains are usually close enough to feed them the same things and get similar results.

Also, I just found out today that plants need a small level of chlorine. Too much is bad, very bad. But none at all can cause necrosis and something else (can't remember). I think my plants are suffereing from necrosis, took me 2 weeks to figure this one out. lol Anyway those nutes I suggested to you have a very small ammount of chlorine (0.1%), only reason I haven't gotten any yet is I'm still looking for the folliage one they have. That stuffs hard to find around here.

$10 is a good price, but HIDs at htgsuppy.com are only $120 or so delivered. Only problem with them is cheap hoods that give off a lot of heat and will require some pretty severe heat management. In my grow room it's 80 degrees at the tops of the planters under the lights and 2 feet away is't 61 degrees, sometimes lower. Waiting till you have enough money for a set up with a good hood (cool tube or A/C cooled hood) is probably best.

And I have another bit of info for you that I just found today, it's to help you build strong roots and to help speed up cloning. It's called Mycorrhiza you can read up on it here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza This is found in many products that you can find at your grow store or a nursery. But the grow stores are much more expensive ($40 per qt) then a nursery ($13 per qt) and most of the nurseries close for the season right after X-Mas. Just on tip, if you want to disolve it in water try to find something without vermiculite, perlite, peat or anything else in it that might not disolve in water. I didn't think of that when I bought mine. lol

You can disolve it and soak your plugs, fill the tray, and water your plugs with it. Wiki will explain why it helps rooting. When you mix your pots you'll want to add some, and for any plants you have now, you can dig 4 holes and put a tablespoon in each hole plus if you disolve some in water you can use it that way too. When you dig your hole make sure you dig it at the outside of the width of your plant. Something else I learned today is that the roots are generally as wide as your plant is.

That also helped me with watering. To get the roots to grow to the pot walls, start watering at the edge of your folliage and water out to the pot walls. Dont water under the folliage because then your roots don't have to looking for water. Once the plant's roots are at the pot walls (you'll know by the folliage) then you can start watering evenly across the surface of the soil.

After FIM you can throw away the tip. You can't really use it for anything.

After the FIM just grow her like nothing happened. You should notice in 2 or 3 days she'll start growing again and you'll see some new growth. If it worked the tip wont grow any farther, the new top growth will be redirected to the 4 points shown on the chart. If the tip starts growing again, then you missed. The leaves on the sides of the tip will still grow, those become 2 of your new main stems. It's easy to confuse them for part of the tip iteslf, especially when the tip is small.

If you miss you can try again, but every time you do it you'll stress the plant, so I wouldn't try too many times on one plant. (2 or 3 tries max). And you don't need to FIM more than once if it's successful. Like I said though about the cut, it takes practice (most of the time) before you can do it 100% of the time.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, I've been upgrading & learning all day. It's been a long day.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
Hey no worrys about the response time, its all good. It is kind of a bummer that none of the other 50+ time this thread was looked at 2day no1 else had any input.
LOL after u explained FIM, now I understand. Chlorine? Do u think it would be a problem mixing that with peroxide/water?
 

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
Hey no worrys about the response time, its all good. It is kind of a bummer that none of the other 50+ time this thread was looked at 2day no1 else had any input.
LOL after u explained FIM, now I understand. Chlorine? Do u think it would be a problem mixing that with peroxide/water?

Probably a bad idea to add it directly, you have to really have a very small ammount, like 0.1%. If you can't get something with it at that ammount then you shouldn't add. Too much is worse than none at all.

And I found out today that those nutes (Dyna-Gro) are chemical based. You should be carefull not to mix organic & chemical nutes. So if you're already using something organic you have to stick with it for now.

Don't worry, the problems that come from no chlorine come on slow so you can see it coming and fix it before it gets bad. And they don't happen every time. One of the problems is necrosis if you want to do a search on it & get some pics so you know what to look for. Sorry, still can't remember the second problem.

Hey, be happy that people aren't offering bad info. I just had some guy tell me that Black Strap Molasses has stuff in it that's not listed on the label. lol Any 3rd grader knows that the FDA makes mfgs list everything that's in an edible product, even water. A lot of people like to talk out of their ass.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
How'd ur FIMed shorty turn out?
I looked around but didn't see, am I suppose 2 put the plant in2 flower after FIMing, or can I stay in veg?
If I can keep the plant veggin after FIM, does it matter how long it vegs 4?
 

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
How'd ur FIMed shorty turn out?
I looked around but didn't see, am I suppose 2 put the plant in2 flower after FIMing, or can I stay in veg?
If I can keep the plant veggin after FIM, does it matter how long it vegs 4?

Shorty's still alive and still not growing. As soon as I get an empty slot in my Rapid Rooter I'm gonna clip her and try to reroot her. I figure it might help or it might kill her. Either way it can't get worse. lol

You can veg after FIMing as long as you want as long as you don't have an autoflower, in which case she'll decide when it's time to flower. lol

It's a good idea to veg for a while after the FIM because a lot of people trim off everything below the FIM to give more energy to the Colas.

I'm not trimming right away because I want the leaves to help with growth. But when I put them into flower I'll be trimming off everything below the FIM on every plant that I did it right on. lol

Out of 7 I think I missed on 2. The other 5 look good, but since they're mature and have uneven nodes, it's hard to tell which brances are actually new main stems. Don't clip anything till you know that for sure.

Hope that helps
 

BoTyKlr

Member
Any info is definitely taken in, thank u. Yesterday I went n picked up a couple more 26w Daylight CFLs and damn!... Its was startin 2 get really bright & white. I didint want that so threw 2gether a ghetto cab made from a couple of totes top 2 top(that I keep my Christmas lights in). It works but I've gotta get/make sumthin else, lights gotta have their totes back. LOL. Any suggestions? ... I was checkin out these round bins; bout 3" diameter x 3" tall and doin'em top 2 top and flat white sprayed on the inside.
Oh hey, I've got new tops cumn up from the FIM cut... I think only 2 r cumn up, nothin from the center so far so I thinks its all good.
 

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
Any info is definitely taken in, thank u. Yesterday I went n picked up a couple more 26w Daylight CFLs and damn!... Its was startin 2 get really bright & white. I didint want that so threw 2gether a ghetto cab made from a couple of totes top 2 top(that I keep my Christmas lights in). It works but I've gotta get/make sumthin else, lights gotta have their totes back. LOL. Any suggestions? ... I was checkin out these round bins; bout 3" diameter x 3" tall and doin'em top 2 top and flat white sprayed on the inside.
Oh hey, I've got new tops cumn up from the FIM cut... I think only 2 r cumn up, nothin from the center so far so I thinks its all good.
Cool, sounds like you did good on your cuts. The 2 leaves become main stems and the middle just stops growing. Also look for 2 more new main stems right below the FIM spot. Don't want to clip them.

3' in diameter, or 3"? 3' in Diameter & 6' tall when you stack them should be plenty of space for 3 plants, unless you really wanna go crazy and build some monsters. 5 gallon pots go into 12" saucers so that should give you enough room. But if you meant 3" (inches) then no way is that gonna be big enough. lol

If that doesn't work out for any reason, just sit down and draw up a little plan for what you want to build, then go to the hardware store and have them cut some 2 x 4s for you the lengths that your design says you need. Use some old boxes to build the walls and line it with mylar if you can. If not get some glossy white spray paint and paint the cardboard. If you take your time with the design, you can design yourself some adjustable harnesses for your lights so you can move them where ever you need them. If you've ever seen those desk lights that architects use with the arm that lets them move the light wherever, that arm is excellent for side lights. For top lights you can just build a multiple light harness that can be raised or lowered.

Hope that made sense. lol I think I posted a pic of an example of a good home made overhead harness, if not let me know and I'll post it.

Hey, if I don't talk to you again by Christmas, then have a very merry Christmas, or which ever holiday you celebrate. :)
 

BoTyKlr

Member
Yeah 3'x3' is what I meant, my bad long day & tryin 2 punch buttons on my blackberry, all the buttons started 2 look the same.
Merry Christmas 2 u & urs. I'll holla atcha later. Have a good 1.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
S.O.B.! I put the mother plant back in the cab after a few days of fresh air, not noticing that she'd grown a few inches... Checked on her a few hours later, lights burnt the sh*it outta the top of canopy, any "whatcha do's" fellas?

. . . I've read around but didn't see an answer 2 this; the upper canopy leaves(@ about a week ago) started 2 yellow only on the inside half of each leaf blade? Still feels healthy & look healthy just turning yellow? ... I'm slowly putting her in2 bloom, could that cause it?
 

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I got buds for less too, but I can smoke through 8 oz in 65 days all by myself so I had to go bigger. lol

If the leaves got burned they wouldn't be turning yellow. Yellow leaves usually means a nute deficiency so you might have to fertilize. But if it's pH related (a pH lockout) then you have to get that strait, then flush, then feed. What's the pH of the water you're using?

And here's a site with pics of various problems. You should take a look and try to identify the deficiency. You can also see there what a light burn looks like.

http://www.ganjaguerrilla.net/index.htm

Also I can't remember what you're using for your overhead, but if it's a CFL or something other than a MH or HPS, you shouldn't have to worry too much about light burns.

Hope that helps.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
Alright after a week of slow light change, mom's on 12/12 with all 2700k CFLs.
I don't know the yellowing was all about but after this week of light change she looks all better, except 4 the light burn. Yeah it was light burn, a lot of the canopy leaves browned n curled... The FIM cut got cooked(that's why I decided 2 flower).

Hope every1 had a Happy Christmas & has a Merry Twenty10.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
What's a good way 2 set up the plant 4 LST(what 2 use & how)? When's a good time 2 start pinning down 4 LST? While still in veg is branches r long enough or flower? ... Any tips/pointers or insight? . . . Is the plant topped 4 this? Is it only the main chute's that get pinned down?
 

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
What's a good way 2 set up the plant 4 LST(what 2 use & how)? When's a good time 2 start pinning down 4 LST? While still in veg is branches r long enough or flower? ... Any tips/pointers or insight? . . . Is the plant topped 4 this? Is it only the main chute's that get pinned down?

I've only used LST to straiten out crooked stems in the past. But I know a couple of things about it.

Some use LST just to strengthen the branches so they'll grow bigger buds. For this all you have to do is hang a string from the branch and buy some of those fresh water sinkers for fishing. The ones that kinda look like pack man, they're very light. Then just start adding them to the string one at a time over time.

I personally use a strong fan oscillating over the plants and I'm pretty happy with the results from that (thickening the branches & stem).

Other's use it so they can grow bigger plants in an area with limited head room. This technique you want to start as early as possible. The only hard & fast rule is never do it right after a watering when the plant is less flexible.

To get the main stem to the ground you tie one string low and just use it to keep the low part of the stem from moving. Then on the opposite side you tie a string higher and you use that string to start to bend it. Then every day that you don't water, you apply a little more pressure to make it bend over a little more.

You can buy this stuff pretty cheap at the hard ware stores or nurseries that's used to tie plants to sticks & stuff. Don't know how to describe it except that it's a 20' to 50' twisty tie that comes in one piecs so you can cut it to the lenth that you need.

You can tie the branches too, but you may not have to. It depends on the head room that you're working with.

If you have one of those plastic planters, it makes it easier if you drill 8 holes (or more) on the rim of the planter to use as anchors for your lines. I'm not sure how they anchor it under the soil, sorry.

That's about all I can remember that I know for sure. Hope it helps some.
 

BoTyKlr

Member
Oh awesome. Fishing weights & string, brilliant. =O)
Why only when not watering? If the watering makes it more flexible wouldn't it be better when watering?
 

DannyGreenEyes

Well-Known Member
Oh awesome. Fishing weights & string, brilliant. =O)
Why only when not watering? If the watering makes it more flexible wouldn't it be better when watering?
Yeah, the fishing weights if you only want to use it to stregthen branches. A nice strong fan works as well, but it make the plants look kinda ugly (branches stretch to the side with the wind for a bit. Once you turn the plants they go back into place)

When you water you're plant takes it in and it becomes rigid. After the soil dries it starts to use the water built up in the leaves and it becomes less rigid.

If you don't water for a long time, the plant uses up all the water built up in the leaves and it start to dry out (brown & crunchy). Once you water, the parts of the plant that are still alive become green again.

I know that it sounds backwards. It sounded backwards to me too when I was first learning. But that's the way it works. A green healthy plant gets more rigid depending on how much water it's holding.
 
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