A couple basic led Q's

Nick1450

Member
hey guys, I'm new to growing but not new to learning about it. Anyways, I'm about half through setting up my grow box and I'm running into trouble regarding lighting. I want to run leds to avoid heat issues, but I'm not sure about watts/sq ft. I've read 40watts per sq ft is optimal but what about ACTUALITY wattage draw? Should I just assume 80w led would work for 2sq ft? Because I was planning on buying 24w led lights just to find out a rural power draw is 15w.... Needless to say this threw me for a loop, do o need to base my watts on diodes size/count or on power?
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
hey guys, I'm new to growing but not new to learning about it. Anyways, I'm about half through setting up my grow box and I'm running into trouble regarding lighting. I want to run leds to avoid heat issues, but I'm not sure about watts/sq ft. I've read 40watts per sq ft is optimal but what about ACTUALITY wattage draw? Should I just assume 80w led would work for 2sq ft? Because I was planning on buying 24w led lights just to find out a rural power draw is 15w.... Needless to say this threw me for a loop, do o need to base my watts on diodes size/count or on power?
for comparing different led lights base on wattage use the actual draw at the plug. For the cheap Chinese led units, usually 1/3 to half of the "rated power" is the actual draw at the plug.
 

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
hey guys, I'm new to growing but not new to learning about it. Anyways, I'm about half through setting up my grow box and I'm running into trouble regarding lighting. I want to run leds to avoid heat issues, but I'm not sure about watts/sq ft. I've read 40watts per sq ft is optimal but what about ACTUALITY wattage draw? Should I just assume 80w led would work for 2sq ft? Because I was planning on buying 24w led lights just to find out a rural power draw is 15w.... Needless to say this threw me for a loop, do o need to base my watts on diodes size/count or on power?
What is your Grow area size?
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
I've read 40watts per sq ft is optimal but what about ACTUALITY wattage draw?
It's always actual watts. If you use efficient LEDs like the Cree lightbulbs sold at Home Depot, you can do 20w/sq ft in a shorter space, 30 in a taller. (Less in veg.). I documented some info and link to threads in this blog post.

For your space, 20w/sq ft would be great. Use 9.5w A19s for more distribution of light (instead of fewer, concentrated sources).

SMD 5630 strip lights are pretty efficient too, and more distributed. I think that would be idea for your space. See these threads:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/chronikoolz-stripped-lite-peep-show.567470/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/fun-with-smd-led-strips-5630-and-5050-in-preparation-for-the-bucket-of-light.635171/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/first-time-grower-experimenting-with-cheap-leds.610538/

Rigid, high-output strips
https://www.rollitup.org/t/high-output-led-strips.881321/

Stay away from the inexpensive LED UFOs found on Amazon and eBay. They're not much better than CFL. You need about 35w/sq ft with those. They're not as problematic in a small, short space like yours (except for heat, if that's something you're avoiding). They're more of a problem growing 4-5' tall plants.
 

Nick1450

Member
In that space I would do 1 cob light. Are you looking to buy pre built or diy
I'm leaning a little towards pre built, as I am not the best at tinkering with electronics.



It's always actual watts. If you use efficient LEDs like the Cree lightbulbs sold at Home Depot, you can do 20w/sq ft in a shorter space, 30 in a taller. (Less in veg.). I documented some info and link to threads in this blog post.

For your space, 20w/sq ft would be great. Use 9.5w A19s for more distribution of light (instead of fewer, concentrated sources).

SMD 5630 strip lights are pretty efficient too, and more distributed. I think that would be idea for your space. See these threads:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/chronikoolz-stripped-lite-peep-show.567470/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/fun-with-smd-led-strips-5630-and-5050-in-preparation-for-the-bucket-of-light.635171/
https://www.rollitup.org/t/first-time-grower-experimenting-with-cheap-leds.610538/

Rigid, high-output strips
https://www.rollitup.org/t/high-output-led-strips.881321/

Stay away from the inexpensive LED UFOs found on Amazon and eBay. They're not much better than CFL. You need about 35w/sq ft with those. They're not as problematic in a small, short space like yours (except for heat, if that's something you're avoiding). They're more of a problem growing 4-5' tall plants.
Okay I looking into those threads and really liked the LED strip idea! Being both space efficient and somewhat cool really made me want to try it out. My only problem is when I try searching around for grows using them, most either discontinue a month in, or they add an hps for flowering. Are these reasonable for flowering, or would I need a ridiculous amount (causing as much heat as cfl)
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
I haven't used strips. I want to, but I went down the Cree LED lightbulb path and if I don't limit the number of paths I go down.... :)

You could pm some of those people and see if they have revised opinions.

I think strips would be perfect in a space your size. The lightbulbs would work too, but you need reflctors which take up space. The nice thing about strips is that they're all facing the right direction. You don't have to waste space on sockets, reflecting light.

Based upon the specs, they're about 20% more lumens per watt than the lightbulbs. And, since you don't have to reflect them, that should be even more light reaching the plants.

If it were me, I would do some COBs dimmed so I could have 5 of them bathing the plant in light (1 on top, 1 in each corner.). Those would be the most efficient, cool, long-lived, future proofed.

Next choice would be strips. I would use enough to get 25w/sq ft. But, I would have it on a dimmer. Make a panel on top which can raise and lower. And slightly curved panels in each corner. Use the top panel for early veg. Turn on the corner panels in late veg. (You could the corners on their own dimmer. Even mix some blue and red strips with white strips, and put the red/blue on their own dimmer to shift the color temperature from cool to warm.).

Next would be lightbulbs like I do. You would need about 47-48w total for 22w/sq ft. That's one Cree A19 13.5w (75w equiv) lightbulb in each top corner. You could swap bulbs for cool and warm,or more or less watts (including a PAR38 flood). You can use flexible goosenecks (I linked to) to extend the bulbs when the plant is shorter. That would cost $28 for the sockets and reflectors. $30 for your first 4 bulbs. $15-30 for some gooseneck extenders (depending on how many lengths you need).
 
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az2000

Well-Known Member
Next would be lightbulbs like I do. You would need about 47-48w total for 22w/sq ft. That's one Cree A19 13.5w (75w equiv) lightbulb in each top corner.
A little more thought on this. The sockets (acquired from the $7 clamp-ons from Home Depot) have a 1/8" pipe thread where the wire enters the back of the socket. This is the standard pipe nipples you can find at the hardware store, lighting departments, etc. You could put a small corner brace in each top corner. Drill a hole through it and use locknuts to attach a pipe nipple to it. Thread the wire through the nibble, and screw the socket onto the nipple for a rigid socket which should be oriented in the right direction for a full size plant, no flexible goosneck extender. Just thread the reflector onto the rigid-mounted socket.

Use the extenders for smaller plants.

I like to distribute the total required wattage as much as possible (some from the top, some from the side). The problem in your case (if you don't use strips) is that you don't have the space for typical lightbulbs on the sides. You can get these inexpensive "bulbs" made of SMD5730 strips. I have a few and wouldn't normally recommend them because the product page isn't accurate, they only draw 3-5w. For the spaces I grow in (2x2x4' tall is the smallest) that's not feasible to rig up that many bulbs.

However, in your case, those would be ideal as sidelighting. Mount a socket in each corner and use the shortest flexible goosneck extender to put the bulb right into the leaves. Let it omnidirectionally feed light to the leaves. I don't believe they'll burn the leaves because they're such low wattage, they don't get too warm. Stick 'em into the plant like a mind probe. :)

You could do Cree A19 9.5w (60w equiv) on the top (4 of them) and 4 of the smallest strip-light bulbs from the sides for a total of about 50w.

Those strip-light bulbs are so cheap, you can buy one of each to compare. I have a few of each. (I gave some to one of the forum members a few months ago.). From what I saw, the only difference between the larger and smaller bulbs is number of LED chips. The watts used didn't rise by more than 2-3. BuyBay is another seller.

That's how I would do it if I didn't want to rig up some 12v strips, dimmers, etc. A total of 8 sockets. Four of the smallest Cree bulbs in reflectors from the top corners (using flexible extenders as necessary). Four of these low-wattage "corncob" bulbs penetrating into the leaves, lighting inside the plant, no reflector.

In addition to the link to how I use Crees (in my first post above), a photo in this post might show it better. The difference is: you wouldn't mount them on the ball-swivel. You would use the common pipe nipple to mount rigid from the back of the socket.
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
A little more thought on this. The sockets (acquired from the $7 clamp-ons from Home Depot) have a 1/8" pipe thread where the wire enters the back of the socket. This is the standard pipe nipples you can find at the hardware store, lighting departments, etc. You could put a small corner brace in each top corner. Drill a hole through it and use locknuts to attach a pipe nipple to it. Thread the wire through the nibble, and screw the socket onto the nipple for a rigid socket which should be oriented in the right direction for a full size plant, no flexible goosneck extender. Just thread the reflector onto the rigid-mounted socket.
.
did you get your Christmas tree yet ? always wanted to do a xmas tree in the living room with strip lights, but can't figure out how to ensure dark period is dark without a tent.
 

Nick1450

Member
A little more thought on this. The sockets (acquired from the $7 clamp-ons from Home Depot) have a 1/8" pipe thread where the wire enters the back of the socket. This is the standard pipe nipples you can find at the hardware store, lighting departments, etc. You could put a small corner brace in each top corner. Drill a hole through it and use locknuts to attach a pipe nipple to it. Thread the wire through the nibble, and screw the socket onto the nipple for a rigid socket which should be oriented in the right direction for a full size plant, no flexible goosneck extender. Just thread the reflector onto the rigid-mounted socket.

Use the extenders for smaller plants.

I like to distribute the total required wattage as much as possible (some from the top, some from the side). The problem in your case (if you don't use strips) is that you don't have the space for typical lightbulbs on the sides. You can get these inexpensive "bulbs" made of SMD5730 strips. I have a few and wouldn't normally recommend them because the product page isn't accurate, they only draw 3-5w. For the spaces I grow in (2x2x4' tall is the smallest) that's not feasible to rig up that many bulbs.

However, in your case, those would be ideal as sidelighting. Mount a socket in each corner and use the shortest flexible goosneck extender to put the bulb right into the leaves. Let it omnidirectionally feed light to the leaves. I don't believe they'll burn the leaves because they're such low wattage, they don't get too warm. Stick 'em into the plant like a mind probe. :)

You could do Cree A19 9.5w (60w equiv) on the top (4 of them) and 4 of the smallest strip-light bulbs from the sides for a total of about 50w.

Those strip-light bulbs are so cheap, you can buy one of each to compare. I have a few of each. (I gave some to one of the forum members a few months ago.). From what I saw, the only difference between the larger and smaller bulbs is number of LED chips. The watts used didn't rise by more than 2-3. BuyBay is another seller.

That's how I would do it if I didn't want to rig up some 12v strips, dimmers, etc. A total of 8 sockets. Four of the smallest Cree bulbs in reflectors from the top corners (using flexible extenders as necessary). Four of these low-wattage "corncob" bulbs penetrating into the leaves, lighting inside the plant, no reflector.

In addition to the link to how I use Crees (in my first post above), a photo in this post might show it better. The difference is: you wouldn't mount them on the ball-swivel. You would use the common pipe nipple to mount rigid from the back of the socket.
Nice info man. I liked that idea as well. I've also found two other options.

1. Taotronics 24w grow light off amazon. (14.8w) actual power draw. Maybe do 4 @ 29.6w/sq ft. These seem like a reasonable option, although they would take up a bit of head room.
2. Ds-100 led grow light. It's 18.5" long which would spread the light pretty evenly (better than cob would probably be). The only problems I have with it is, 1 the fans seem pretty loud and I'm trying to keep everything whisper quiet. And 2 at 90w draw would it be over kill for 2 sq ft?
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
Originally you said heat is your concern. If that's the case, I would stay away from inexpensive LED fixtures which don't tell you the diodes they use. They usually use epi-whatever diodes which are about as efficient as CFL and produce as much heat. They'll grow well. Anything will in a small space like that. But, you'll get more light for less energy (heat, cost) than those. Plus, they're throwaway. (The Crees are 10-year warranty.).

Advanced LED is a good light. But, for $300 you could do better. They're not in the category of cheap epi-whatever lights (nor the rebranded lights sold at a fantastic markup, like Kind, Lush, HydroGrowLED, BlackDog, GrowBlu). But, I think Advanced is overpriced for what you get. And, yes, 90w is more than you need. It's not bad to use more light. But, you'll generate heat you don't need.

The only efficient fixture I can think of for a smaller space is the Hans Bonsai 70w. But, I think you'd do a lot better with more distributed light sources (4 corners and 4 small side lights inserted into the leaves).

Maybe someone else can think of something if you're looking for a fixture. Blackstar has some low-watt UFOs. But, they're epi-whatever. They'll contribute to the heat.

Cree bulbs or strips don't require fans (which suggests how cool they run). You just need to exchange the air in the grow space every 5 minutes or so.
 

bassman999

Well-Known Member
What about something like this?

http://m.lightinthebox.com/en/diy-30w-3500k-2700lm-warm-white-cob-led-strip-dc-36-39v_p824504.html?currency=USD&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping

They're 30w each so if I got two (one for each side) and glued them to heat sink and make my extraction fan pull air through them, would that work well? Also how are COB LEDs when it comes to heat?
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/CXA2530-0000-000N00T20E7/CXA2530-0000-000N00T20E7-ND/3641917
For that price this is better, and I was linked a better price than that but not sure where...I think Newark
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
What about something like this?
If you're reluctant to get into SMD5630 strips, I'm not sure why you'd venture into that product (especially if nobody has used it and recommends it. Maybe they have. I don't know.).

Also how are COB LEDs when it comes to heat?
They're more efficient, so less heat. More lumens per watt than SMD5630, which itself is supposed to be 10-20% more L/w than the Cree lightbulbs, which I think are about 95 L/w with the rubber coating removed from the globe.
 
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