Gotta agree with PSU, try sourcing selected top bin osrams in small amounts, not much luck eh? Yes, you'll find deep reds from led-tech, but I haven't had much luck with anything else. So for a small panel, those IS engines start to look a lot better if you really want THE best.
90W homemade LED grow
- Thread starter JMD
- Start date
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Well they are the BEST of the BEST.....so the price is high, don't forget that it includes the vat tax in those prices(20%) which US customers don't pay, just our EU brothers get fucked...lol
>
Good luck on your build JMD
Yeah, but be prepared to bend over to ship it across the pond, so probably the same overall outlay.
Investigating various led tubes and flat panels from Asia, shipping cost means a few samples get prohibitively expensive, fast
JMD
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't call them "questionable". As long as they are Cree, they are still high quality and they are miles better than cheap Chinese LEDs.Well they are the BEST of the BEST
Remember those ^^^ Cree xp-g/xp-e modules(boards) have been flooding the market(alibaba/etc.) and Bin # are questionable as are the ACTUAL wavelengths emitted.......you get what you pay for with leds.
Good luck on your build JMD
I will ask them if they can tell me the exact BIN used on those boards.
Of course, but you pay a steep price - which I don't see is worth it. Sure if you want your build to be a bit more energy saving, but I don't really think it's worth THAT much more.
CaliJoe
Member
The XPG is tried and true... the XTE with its silicon carbide substrate is still too new for my taste. It is probably fine, but I am still giving it a little time before I jump on board. First version of any new technology is bound to have a few bugs and from what I have read the new substrate is more to bring down production cost than it is to increase output/efficiency. While lower cost if you can maintain the same quality is always a good thing, I want to see some longevity results before I make the leap.
Slipon
Well-Known Member
look great, did you make some calculation on price ?
when I check them prices I see one LED cluster costing about 30€ thats 480€ for 16 !
then everything els, thats like 300€ more, I paid like 500€ for my 280W (120x3w) with secondary lenses on em in a spectrum of my choice, and 3 years warranty
what am I missing here ? beside you get to put it together yourself ?
JMD
Well-Known Member
With
- 16x 50W modules (22 USD each)
- 4 heatsinks (45 RMB each)
- 16x 1500mA drivers (35 RMB each)
Total: 473 USD / 358 Euro / 2671 DKK
Apart from those things, I will need:
- Wiring (Got that)
- 3x 120mm fans (Might have some, else ~15 USD each)
- 3x 120mm fan grills (Got those)
- PCBs for connections and fuses (Free!)
- Fuses (Less than 10 USD)
- 230VAC->12VDC transformer (got that, free)
- Metal sheets (Either free or cheap)
- Laser cutting (Free)
- Rivets (Less than 10 USD)
- 230V 3-pin chassis plug with 5 amp fuse (4 USD)
Did I miss anything?
Slipon
Well-Known Member
nop, sounds about right, but tell me, where do you get the 50W modules for 22$ ? and what is RMB ?
I could probably get the metal sheet`s for free and I can do the cutting myself, but everything els (cept for the rivets) I would have to buy and the calculation for that ends up close to what I could buy a panel for (+/-3000 DKK)
I could probably get the metal sheet`s for free and I can do the cutting myself, but everything els (cept for the rivets) I would have to buy and the calculation for that ends up close to what I could buy a panel for (+/-3000 DKK)
JMD
Well-Known Member
The modules can you get on eBay, www.topledlight.com or www.taobao.com.
RMB is the Chinese currency "Chinese yuan". 100 RMB is roughly 92 DKK.
Where can you get a true 800W lamp for 3k? All the "800W" I know, only draws something like 400W from the grid.
This one comes close, but look at the price: http://growershouse.com/california-light-works-solar-storm-800w-led
Slipon
Well-Known Member
ahh you mean the 50W modules draw 50 actual watt`s ?
yea my first panel have 120x3W so 360W but run at 280W
so I see where the "cost" was hidden, can you then build a fixture on lets say half the watt (400W) for about half the money ? or 60%
since for me to begin to consider a DIY build it would have to cost about half or I wouldn't bother, if I can get the same ready to plug in with a warranty for "only" like 30% more I would choose that route
btw
800 true watt should be enough to cover atleast 1,5x1,5 M how big will you make the panel ?
yea my first panel have 120x3W so 360W but run at 280W
so I see where the "cost" was hidden, can you then build a fixture on lets say half the watt (400W) for about half the money ? or 60%
since for me to begin to consider a DIY build it would have to cost about half or I wouldn't bother, if I can get the same ready to plug in with a warranty for "only" like 30% more I would choose that route
btw
800 true watt should be enough to cover atleast 1,5x1,5 M how big will you make the panel ?
JMD
Well-Known Member
The cost for building the lamp is directly related to the wattage (almost). A rough estimate for a 400W would be 255 USD (1450 DKK).
In the beginning I will use it in my 60x60cm cabinet - which of course is way too small for 800W true watts. But that's where the smart build comes into play
I almost got the design ready which will allow me to run 4 modules on a single driver, two drivers, 3 drivers or one driver for each module - resulting in a drive current of 375mA, 750mA, 1125mA or 1500mA.
The problem with this is that you can't just connect 4 modules in parallel and connect 4 drivers, and then just turn on or off the drivers. It works fine with up to 3 drivers, but with 4 drivers the slight variance of the modules might become a problem. Also, if a module fails and you have 4 drivers feeding 4 modules in parallel, then you risk driving 3 modules with 2000mA each, which of course is way too much.
Slipon
Well-Known Member
hmmm, I wish I had a more general understanding of it all, I know the mA is related to how much the LED put out, the higher the more, but thats about it
lets say I would like to build a flowering panel to cover about 60x40 cm (half my "tent")
maybe with 6x50W clusters (=300W) as simple as possible, don't need to have it demisable or anything, just on/off
then what els then the LED clusters and heat sink`s (2x60cm) and drivers (dunno witch kind but I recon I need 2, one for each heat sink/3 LED clusters ?) and fan (I guess two would do it) would I need ? beside some wires and plugs aso ?
lets say I would like to build a flowering panel to cover about 60x40 cm (half my "tent")
maybe with 6x50W clusters (=300W) as simple as possible, don't need to have it demisable or anything, just on/off
then what els then the LED clusters and heat sink`s (2x60cm) and drivers (dunno witch kind but I recon I need 2, one for each heat sink/3 LED clusters ?) and fan (I guess two would do it) would I need ? beside some wires and plugs aso ?
JMD
Well-Known Member
Then you wouldn't really need anything else. The bare essentials are:
- 6x 50W modules
- 6x Drivers
- 2x heatsink
- Wiring
- Thermal paste (if you don't have it already, it's $1 on eBay)
A single 120mm fan should suffice, two for lower noise level. And of course the metal work.
Slipon
Well-Known Member
that don't sounds to bad, simple enough even for me, tho I saw once of them "kits" on http://ideal-spectrum-led.com/epages/box21231.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/box21231/Products/1060[4]/SubProducts/1060[4]-0001
View attachment 2799067
I know them LED clusters is different (not 50W) but seem`s like its possible to drive all 3 on one driver ?
what kind of driver/LED would you suggest ? I mean both brand and mA and do you just connect all the drivers then in to one plug for the wall ?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
If you buy the 3 rails, take a picture of the foot print @ 3 and 4ft above the floor. THEN, stagger the 2 outside rails: one engine left, the other right, and/or stagger the middle rail either one engine left or right, then retake pics. I'm pretty sure you will see much better light balance then parallel.
JMD
Well-Known Member
You get 33W lamp for 155 euro - that's insane. That's about 12 times the price per watt compared to the price of the one I'm going to build.
Problem with drivers like meanwell is the price. They are high quality, meant for the industry or prosumers.
While those are the ideal drivers to use, cheaper Chinese ones will do just fine.
You cannot choose a driver before you which, or how many, LEDs you are going to use.
reminds me of looking at "high end" graphic cards, high end SLI double gpu 1000...but its nowhere near as twice as good as a single Card for 500. the "best" always Comes like with a premium Price tag, not because of what it can do but just simply because its "the best". Btw how can i disable this "word correction" of the Forum, it changes words captial letters to the wrong one sometimes, because im not english.
JMD
Well-Known Member
The are 10 warm white Cree XPG on each module - that's it. But they cover almost the whole spectrum, and you only need a bit extra 660nm, if you want.
Yep. And I just don't think it's worth it to pay 2, 3 or 4 times the price just to get the best BIN. It makes no sense to me, unless your power is insanely expensive - but by growing weed yourself, you're already saving a lot of money.
As for the word correction, I think it's your browser
Slipon
Well-Known Member
then Im thinking you might want to mix it up a bit, or copy Area 51 and go for Nw (5000K) and 630 and run the 630 separate so you can turn em on after the first 2-3 week`s of flowering
maybe I should build a small one for veg to start with and see how it turns out
do you have any links to any EU based shop`s ? don't like to get stuff shipped over sea and maybe pay tax and postal fee, rater pay a bit extra and get it faster as well and it would of course be great if you can get it all from one shop
p.s.
what to you use to fit the wires to the LED chips ?