4 tries in one year, what's the problem?

I’ve been trying unsuccessfully for a year now to grow from seeds and I’m getting so discouraged. I live in a country where I don’t speak the language and access to “standard” growing supplies (like I can’t find pH up/down here anywhere) is limited, or needs to be shipped in at high cost. Here’s my current setup:

Cab: 1.5’ x 1.5’ x 4.5’ – I’ve got a 4.5” Fulltech axial fan in the upper corner exhausting out (set on a timer to run once for 5 minutes every 70 minutes) and five 2” holes at the bottom of the back wall for intake.

Light: Prosource 90w UFO set at 24” above seedlings.

Medium: Peat moss (2/3) and perlite (1/3) starting in Dixie cups.

Water: Bottled water of the local brand.

Genetics: Female Seeds C99 (just started with these, had originally been trying to grow with seeds I’d bought from a grower who sold me seeds that came from his NL grow).

Here’s an account of my unsuccessful attempts over the past year, all germinating done according to the Cervantes video:

Attempt 1: NL seeds in a soil mix that I couldn’t read what the bag said. Plants burned up after a few weeks, was told by others here that perhaps the soil had too many nutes.

Attempt 2: NL seeds in Welgrow berger peat moss potting mix that got to week five, but burned up as soon as I added Dynagro nutes (I calculated the mix wrong and gave them too much).

Attempt 3: NL seeds in same medium, no nutes but suddenly got browning starting at the leaf tips after one month, all plants died.

Attempt 4: Female Seeds C99 – had thought perhaps unknown genetics might be the issue, so finally got something reliable. Ordered some random peat moss online, same 2/3 to 1/3 mix with perlite. Temps range in the 70’s. Humidity is low (30% to 50%) but getting humidifier soon. Seedling popped but stunted growth and after a few days here’s what is happening (again):




I can’t for the life of me understand what is causing these plants to die. I just found out that there’s a place I can get some Miracle Gro stuff if need be. If anyone’s got any ideas please help because I don’t want to kill all the 20 seeds I bought (C99 and SLH) and I really don’t want to give up. Thanks!

How often were you using the nutes? If you were using them full strength as the bottle labels them right out of the starting gate.. that's precisely why you were bbq'ing them. Local brand of water was what pH? Were you pH'ing your mix and verifying your medium was within the soil limits that cannabis accepts, or adjusting it so it fell in those? If not, you'll lock out nutes and they will eventually spiral to their death. Use of Miracle Grow at this juncture may not be the best of ideas, unless that's what's in the budget. Have to be careful with the watering as water + miracle grow = time release nutes + more water = heavier spike + more water = burn/death. Much caution has to be used with Miracle Grow in the initial learning phases of growing, in short.

No nutes on seedlings for first 20 days or so, then 1/8th strength good up to 1/4... then up it to 1/2... If you are a killing machine...
Go slow... relax, don't worry...can you filter your drinking water ? that you water plants with ?

I would also think some morel light might be in order.

I only used nutes one time on the second attempt and like I said, I know I gave them too much. The pH of the water is between 7 and 8 (tough call with the test strip). I'm sure it's possible to filter the water somehow, but would I need to with bottled water? The seedling in the pic (Female Seeds C99 genetics) popped up in the peat/perlite mix, no nutes, and is promptly on its way to the grave. There must be something in either the water or medium that's killing it?

Also, is it possible to pH balance the water without up/down? I've had a native speaker search up and down (pun) for it to no avail. This country doesn't seem to have it, oddly enough...

I dont think it needs perlite until its second set of leaves come out... but im just a noob trying to help.

zandramas said:

I only used nutes one time on the second attempt and like I said, I know I gave them too much. The pH of the water is between 7 and 8 (tough call with the test strip). I'm sure it's possible to filter the water somehow, but would I need to with bottled water? The seedling in the pic (Female Seeds C99 genetics) popped up in the peat/perlite mix, no nutes, and is promptly on its way to the grave. There must be something in either the water or medium that's killing it?

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7-8 is way way too high for cannabis pH.. you want 6.4-6.6.. with 6.5 being 'perfect' - here's the chart to explain why 7-8 is way too high:

zandramas said:

Also, is it possible to pH balance the water without up/down? I've had a native speaker search up and down (pun) for it to no avail. This country doesn't seem to have it, oddly enough...

Click to expand...

pH down alternative = concentrated lemon juice .. pH up alternative = dolomite lime .. heavy filtration/purification should help a good amount assuming the water is off drastically.

ill give you a great start here. go ONLINE greners.com order a soil-less mix like advanced sunshine #4 ; ) and a pack of rooting cubes.get OGtea.com special vegan sauce and rootwebstar. this will introduce all the microbes and bacteria your soil need to grow a strong root structure and a strong rhizophere. THEN get your hands on general organics GO box. drop the humic and biomarine, and give it a go. youll have a great time and be able to do it for under $100. ill be MORE than willing to give you all the guidance you need with these brands aswell i have much proof of there success. even if its not what i use NOW but NOW i have a larger grasp on vegan organics. i will start with that GO is partially synthetic. but you do not have to PH adjust just like AN ph perfect lines. BUT FOR MUCH CHEAPER. PLEASE check it out. but if you wanna do some real vegannics....hit me up.

Figong said:

pH down alternative = concentrated lemon juice .. pH up alternative = dolomite lime .. heavy filtration/purification should help a good amount assuming the water is off drastically.

Click to expand...

Alright, thanks for the good stuff, Figong. Would having too high a pH cause the plants to brown at the tips like they have been? I've read varying things about using lemon juice but it's all I've got at this point. In order to find out exactly what pH I've got I suppose I need to get something better than test strips. Any suggestions?

zandramas said:

Alright, thanks for the good stuff, Figong. Would having too high a pH cause the plants to brown at the tips like they have been? I've read varying things about using lemon juice but it's all I've got at this point. In order to find out exactly what pH I've got I suppose I need to get something better than test strips. Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

They have some strips that are more accurate than others.. a cheaper pH meter would work as well - as long as it's within .1 you're good in terms of measuring it without spending 250.00 for a pH meter.

Bro.

start with the basics.

you can grow cannabis in any dirt if you have the basics covered.


1 ) peat moss is very acidy. this is not good for seedlings, and you do NOT need to increase the acidity use good soil. rockwool cubes are easy as fuck to start a plant in, jiffy pots are groovy, and you can even use good old Miracle Gro potting mix.

2 ) your exhaust fan should not be on a timer. air flow all the time is good, it keeps humidity and temps down, and ensures plenty of fresh air. let the fan run.

3 ) keeping your lights 24" high is too far for a sprout, with LEDs or CFL's you can get right down in there without burning your sprout.

4 ) the seed is a rich and dandy packet of everything a baby plant needs to get started. you shouldnt have to fertilize till you see true leaves, and then use 1/4 of the recommended dose on the packet, and use it 1/2 as often (MEASURE CAREFULLY!). if youre using miracle gro or other potting soil, you wont need to fertilize for for a month or more.

5 ) water less often than you think you need to. the number 1 killer of baby plants is drowning, the number 2 killer is called "Damping Off" if your seedling looks just fine, and then one day you look and it has just fallen over at the soil line, you got "Damping off" too much water makes fungus grow, and the fungus kills seedlings where an established plant would be just fine. if you start your plants in a Solo party cup, you should only add a SINGLE tablespoon of water every 3 days or so.

6 ) make sure your planter has holes in the bottom. if you start in a solo cup put holes all over, leave just enough cup to keep the dirt in.

7 ) do not let you plant sit in the water that come out the bottom. if water stands about your plant will drown, or get mould, and if it's still a seedling, it will "Damp Off" quicker than shit.

8 ) if you think your plant needs water, weigh the pot with your hand. if the pot feels light add some water, if it feels heavy, let it alone. you should ALWAY be worried your not giving it enough water if you are satisfied with the water amounts, your giving it too much. a good idea if youre new to the deal is to keep a duplicate container with identical soil with NO water in it, and compare the two. youll get the hang of it pretty quick.

9 ) dont use bottled water. most bottled water is "softened" at the bottling plant, and this adds salt. unless the water si Reverse Osmosis filtered, dont use it. hit the big water dispensing machines outside the grocery stores or use tap water, or get a Brita pitcher.

more specific details on the exact plan youre using would help tailor a scheme for you.


container type:
container volume:
media:
cabinet height:
cabinet width:
cabinet depth:

ur seedling dont look like its dieing to me. its just stacking roots in ur cup getting ready to shoot up into the sky.


ive recently been having the same problem, then on this last batch i planted them in green and yellow bad of miracle grow. i use just plain tap water. ph is 9.4 and dont use any ph down. ive tried the soil-less mix with the organic grow box. im even growing the 2 side by side right now. my miracle grow is hands down beating the other shit.

its just a weed give it a little light and a little water and ur good to go. people make it way more complex then it needs to be.

green and yellow 6 month feed.


ur light might also be to far away id move it closer like 4 inches away or so. more light = more energy.

Thanks for taking the time with the in-depth pointers, Dr Kynes. I really appreciate you guys helping me out. I guess maybe part of the problem I’ve had is knowing what advice to listen to; in past posts I’ve gotten things that directly conflict with what I’m hearing now. So, I’ve been trying to stick with the basics, maybe just fookin em up a bit.

1 ) peat moss is very acidy. this is not good for seedlings, and you do NOT need to increase the acidity use good soil. rockwool cubes are easy as fuck to start a plant in, jiffy pots are groovy, and you can even use good old Miracle Gro potting mix.

I did not know this about peat. I was told I could use it as a way to start seedlings:
https://www.rollitup.org/newbie-central/535991-seedlings-burning-pre-fertilized-soil.html

2 ) your exhaust fan should not be on a timer. air flow all the time is good, it keeps humidity and temps down, and ensures plenty of fresh air. let the fan run.

Again, was given (perhaps poor?) advice that I could run it once every couple of hours. The cab is also right next to my bed (for stealth if surprise visitors come, can’t locate it anywhere else) and that fan is LOUD so I haven’t wanted to have it on all night. I might relocate my bed to the living room anyway…

3 ) keeping your lights 24" high is too far for a sprout, with LEDs or CFL's you can get right down in there without burning your sprout.

I put the lights at this distance because that’s what the manufacturer recommended:
http://store.prosourceworldwide.com/Illuminator-90W-UFO-LED-Grow-Lights-p/illuminator ufo 90w.htm

4 ) the seed is a rich and dandy packet of everything a baby plant needs to get started. you shouldnt have to fertilize till you see true leaves, and then use 1/4 of the recommended dose on the packet, and use it 1/2 as often (MEASURE CAREFULLY!). if youre using miracle gro or other potting soil, you wont need to fertilize for for a month or more.

Yeah, the one time I gave the plants nutes was after a month of growth and I realized after feeding that I’d miscalculated the amount and gave them much more that ¼ strength.

5 ) water less often than you think you need to. the number 1 killer of baby plants is drowning, the number 2 killer is called "Damping Off" if your seedling looks just fine, and then one day you look and it has just fallen over at the soil line, you got "Damping off" too much water makes fungus grow, and the fungus kills seedlings where an established plant would be just fine. if you start your plants in a Solo party cup, you should only add a SINGLE tablespoon of water every 3 days or so.

This could be exactly what’s killing this girl this time around. I usually stick my finger down and inch or two to feel for dryness and check the weight before watering. The cups are small: 8 oz. Checking the peat now it’s still full of moisture at the top after watering with 2 oz. three days ago. Having said that, I forgot that I once killed several seedlings last year by waiting too long to water, so it seemed to me to be a delicate balancing act.

6 ) make sure your planter has holes in the bottom. if you start in a solo cup put holes all over, leave just enough cup to keep the dirt in.

Yup, I’ve always had drainage holes in the bottom.

7 ) do not let you plant sit in the water that come out the bottom. if water stands about your plant will drown, or get mould, and if it's still a seedling, it will "Damp Off" quicker than shit.

The 2 oz. I water with is just enough before water starts draining at the bottom. I’ve never let the plants sit in any excess water for the reason you said.

8 ) if you think your plant needs water, weigh the pot with your hand. if the pot feels light add some water, if it feels heavy, let it alone. you should ALWAY be worried your not giving it enough water if you are satisfied with the water amounts, your giving it too much. a good idea if youre new to the deal is to keep a duplicate container with identical soil with NO water in it, and compare the two. youll get the hang of it pretty quick.

Duplicate container, good tip.

9 ) dont use bottled water. most bottled water is "softened" at the bottling plant, and this adds salt. unless the water si Reverse Osmosis filtered, dont use it. hit the big water dispensing machines outside the grocery stores or use tap water, or get a Brita pitcher.

Yeah, the problem where I live is the water isn’t recommended for drinking, so I’ve gotten the idea in my head that it won’t be good for the plant. Unfortunately, there are no water machines in this country either. I’ll try to find a way to filter it. Good to know about bottled water.

more specific details on the exact plan youre using would help tailor a scheme for you.

container type: Small Dixie cups
container volume: 8 oz.
media: 2/3 peat, 1/3 perlite
cabinet height: 4.5’
cabinet width: 1.5’
cabinet depth: 1.5’

Again, thanks for your help it’s really appreciated. It’s folks like you guys that help newbs get off the ground. I’m gonna get to harvest yet!

bigbubba227 said:

ur seedling look likes its dieing to me. its just stacking roots in ur cup getting ready to shoot up into the sky.


ive recently been having the same problem, then on this last batch i planted them in green and yellow bad of miracle grow. i use just plain tap water. ph is 9.4 and dont use any ph down. ive tried the soil-less mix with the organic grow box. im even growing the 2 side by side right now. my miracle grow is hands down beating the other shit.

its just a weed give it a little light and a little water and ur good to go. people make it way more complex then it needs to be.

green and yellow 6 month feed.


ur light might also be to far away id move it closer like 4 inches away or so. more light = more energy.

Click to expand...

It's definitely dying Here's what it looks like today. Anyone got any clues from the looks of it what's causing it?

well idk from looking at that tbh. burn at the tips is usualy from too much fert, or salt (like in the water). you can definately get the led realy close to the plant, i looked at the website ad you posted and it says a 90w led will light 4x4 area. it will not. that is an odd looking burn pattern tho, did you move it into the sun for a day? 9.4 is very high you can use your water for ph up np. you might need a better source of water tho, it depends whats in it thats making the ph so high. have you talked to ppl that have gardens, houseplants, farms... in the area to see how they deal with the water? if the area you're in rains alot you can just use that.

The plant looks WAY TO WET for its size. Remember the plant can only transpire limited amounts during its small fragile stage. You're killing them with kindness.

interesting stuff guys

no nutes until you have a rooted growing plant. then real weak for a while. Do not use soil with added nutes AT ALL. IT KILLS. one or drops of lemon juice per gallon of water should adjust your ph.