4 Firemen shot 2 killed

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
BRabiej said:
I didn't ignore actually I went and read up on assault rifles and learned your right most of them have semi and full auto modes so yes they are not semi only.

And whats immoral about hollow and armor rounds?? They don't belong in the hands of non military or police. I think if a citizen is to use a gun to stop or neutralize a threat the point is to take the person down and wait for the police. Or that deer that gets shot by a hunter it does not require an armor piercing round or hollow tip.

And lets be honest we know what hollow points do and are meant to do. Do you want this in the wrong hands?

All I'm saying is people don't need assault rifles and bullets designed for war.. I don't know how this ended up directed at me in the first place.
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It ended up directed at you because you are espousing apparently very reasonable viewpoints that do not survive careful review. i am actually hoping to get you to think about them hard enough to spot the seams.

Hollow-point ammunition is much more effective than the solid or FMJ (full-metal jacketed) rounds that the Geneva Convention has imposed on armies as the only suitable sort. So soldiers won't use it.
Armor-piercing ammo from a civilian-caliber weapon won't pierce any real armor, e.g. on a troop carrier. But it will have an effect on body armor. Please do not suggest that bad guys cannot or won't wear body armor.

As to the bolded, strong dissenting opinion. I would not countenance, and ask you to also oppose, arming the police more highly than the populace. Wanna test the basic premise of the less-guns-now! contingent? Disarm the police in precise lockstep with the citizenry. To do otherwise is an admission of hypocrisy imo. if society is too unsafe to disarm the cops, how can anyone argue it's safe enough to strip the citizen of both the decision and capacity to carry his own protection? Conclusion: if you are willing to grant civilian police greater arms rights than the citizenry, you've been fished in by the demonizers of the protective firearm, who do not want you to understand the 2nd as a citizen's right and not a collective's.

Handguns for defense, and hunting rifles for harvesting meat, almost exclusively use modern hollow-point ammunition. I know what they are meant to do, and I would look with great consternation on an attempt to demonize this excellent ammo. Whose hands are the wrong ones? Those who misbehave with guns? Then in my falsely humble opinion ... punish the behavior and not the instrument. cn

ceterum censeo a semi-auto cannot be an assault rifle.
 
SirGreenThumb

SirGreenThumb

Well-Known Member
BRabiej said:
I didn't ignore actually I went and read up on assault rifles and learned your right most of them have semi and full auto modes so yes they are not semi only.

And whats immoral about hollow and armor rounds?? They don't belong in the hands of non military or police. I think if a citizen is to use a gun to stop or neutralize a threat the point is to take the person down and wait for the police. Or that deer that gets shot by a hunter it does not require an armor piercing round or hollow tip.

And lets be honest we know what hollow points do and are meant to do. Do you want this in the wrong hands?

All I'm saying is people don't need assault rifles and bullets designed for war.. I don't know how this ended up directed at me in the first place.
Click to expand...
You don't think that hollow points belong in the hands of non military or police? Well let me ask you this. You say there is nothing wrong with someone protecting themselves, but yet you don't think we should use hollow points. Lets consider this for a moment. If you use a FMJ round on someone, that round will go right through them and perhaps enter into someone else that the bullet wasn't meant for. Where as if you use a hollow point, it expands at POI and doesn't kill innocent bystanders.

Also, I believe that people are misunderstanding the idea of an assault weapon. What can you consider an assault weapon? Something that is semi auto with a high capacity clip? Well how about this, I own a Ruger Sr9 which is a semi auto handgun that has a 17 round clip. Assault weapon? Any weapon can be considered an "Assault weapon" if your intention is to assault someone with a weapon, it at that point becomes an assault weapon.

Edit: I am licensed to carry and was trained by a police officer.
 
SirGreenThumb

SirGreenThumb

Well-Known Member
Better yet, take apart the bullet, insert some mercury, assemble bullet back together, insert bullet in to barrel of preferred weapon and BAM! That fucker will knock whatever you are shooting at off its feet. :lol:
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
I have many thousands of rounds of 5.56 MM Penetrator rounds with a steel core. Goes through steel like butter.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
doublejj said:
Do you think when alcohol was prohibited, they exempted existing booze?...........Not!
I had a "Tracy Lords" video tape the day she admitted she was under 18. It became child-porn immedietly!
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Actually they did. No one kicked in the doors and took the pre Vollstead act liquor. Also even at the zenith of prohibition a doctor could still prescribe medicinal whiskey. Although the Feds attempted to second guess the physicans and it was ugly.

Prohibition does not work for anything.

The other interesting thing is prior to the past 60 to 100 years guns were simply a tool everyone had. So why weren't there more of the same type of killings back then? Hmm people were saner right? No it was because everyone knew a gun didn't guarantee you winning. Everyone had them and a dozen people would stop any of today's nonsense in their tracks.

I'm still marveling over anyone on a cannabis forum being a proponent of any type of prohibition. The irony would be delicious if it weren't so damn sad.
 
BRabiej

BRabiej

Member
cannabineer said:
It ended up directed at you because you are espousing apparently very reasonable viewpoints that do not survive careful review. i am actually hoping to get you to think about them hard enough to spot the seams.

Hollow-point ammunition is much more effective than the solid or FMJ (full-metal jacketed) rounds that the Geneva Convention has imposed on armies as the only suitable sort. So soldiers won't use it.
Armor-piercing ammo from a civilian-caliber weapon won't pierce any real armor, e.g. on a troop carrier. But it will have an effect on body armor. Please do not suggest that bad guys cannot or won't wear body armor.

As to the bolded, strong dissenting opinion. I would not countenance, and ask you to also oppose, arming the police more highly than the populace. Wanna test the basic premise of the less-guns-now! contingent? Disarm the police in precise lockstep with the citizenry. To do otherwise is an admission of hypocrisy imo. if society is too unsafe to disarm the cops, how can anyone argue it's safe enough to strip the citizen of both the decision and capacity to carry his own protection? Conclusion: if you are willing to grant civilian police greater arms rights than the citizenry, you've been fished in by the demonizers of the protective firearm, who do not want you to understand the 2nd as a citizen's right and not a collective's.

Handguns for defense, and hunting rifles for harvesting meat, almost exclusively use modern hollow-point ammunition. I know what they are meant to do, and I would look with great consternation on an attempt to demonize this excellent ammo. Whose hands are the wrong ones? Those who misbehave with guns? Then in my falsely humble opinion ... punish the behavior and not the instrument. cn

ceterum censeo a semi-auto cannot be an assault rifle.
Click to expand...

All summed up all that I am trying to say is this country is full of mentally unstable people and I don't want assault rifles or anything else like armor piercing and hollow tip rounds to be available to these people.. But on the same page I support the right to own guns for protection etc. I'm not against guns I'm against citizens being able to obtain these high powered fire arms and special ammunition and body armor etc.

I mean handguns and sport rifles are deadly enough as it is in the wrong hands.. but we all know you can inflict a lot more damage a lot easier with fully automatic weapons and special ammunition.

And if you suggest that we need to out arm the police because some kind of revolution is going to happen and the government and police are going to be against the general population I think that you might be a little bit paranoid and I mean the police and military are the citizens they are our family, loved ones etc.

So if you think we need to keep a stock pile of guns and ammo etc around for the day the police/government turns on us I guess that will be the day we turn on ourselves.
 
Mindmelted

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
brabiej said:
all summed up all that i am trying to say is this country is full of mentally unstable people and i don't want assault rifles or anything else like armor piercing and hollow tip rounds to be available to these people.. But on the same page i support the right to own guns for protection etc. I'm not against guns i'm against citizens being able to obtain these high powered fire arms and special ammunition and body armor etc.

I mean handguns and sport rifles are deadly enough as it is in the wrong hands.. But we all know you can inflict a lot more damage a lot easier with fully automatic weapons and special ammunition.

And if you suggest that we need to out arm the police because some kind of revolution is going to happen and the government and police are going to be against the general population i think that you might be a little bit paranoid and i mean the police and military are the citizens they are our family, loved ones etc.

So if you think we need to keep a stock pile of guns and ammo etc around for the day the police/government turns on us i guess that will be the day we turn on ourselves.
Click to expand...



none of the crimes done recently where done with a automatic weapon!
 
BRabiej

BRabiej

Member
SirGreenThumb said:
You don't think that hollow points belong in the hands of non military or police? Well let me ask you this. You say there is nothing wrong with someone protecting themselves, but yet you don't think we should use hollow points. Lets consider this for a moment. If you use a FMJ round on someone, that round will go right through them and perhaps enter into someone else that the bullet wasn't meant for. Where as if you use a hollow point, it expands at POI and doesn't kill innocent bystanders.

Also, I believe that people are misunderstanding the idea of an assault weapon. What can you consider an assault weapon? Something that is semi auto with a high capacity clip? Well how about this, I own a Ruger Sr9 which is a semi auto handgun that has a 17 round clip. Assault weapon? Any weapon can be considered an "Assault weapon" if your intention is to assault someone with a weapon, it at that point becomes an assault weapon.

Edit: I am licensed to carry and was trained by a police officer.
Click to expand...
I'm sure hollow tips can also go right through someone if it does not hit bone or anything else to slow it down and could potentially hit and kill another person as well. But I mean the police and military should have access to these rounds nothing wrong with that just not general population.

Assault weapon in my mind is a weapon that has a large clip and high powered rounds with the ability to be fully automatic something designed to kill a lot of people easily.

I mean what good honest reason does the general population need with these items easily at there fingertips tell me that.
 
Mindmelted

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
BRabiej said:
although your right that does not change anything in this conversation/debate.

And we all know these items have been used in the past.
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And that means fucking what?

Ban all things used to kill people with!

You cannot be that naive!
 
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