blu3bird
Well-Known Member
Fuck man, the reason people to pay for water is because of infrastructure we NEED, sewage systems and treatment plants and maintenance. If no one pays for that stuff then we don't have it.
4 day working week.
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StonerCol
Well-Known Member
Private companies are for profit. They have shareholders that expect to be paid for nothing. I agree that any service has a running cost but when profit is part of that running cost and it shouldn't be.
Navyaero
New Member
From what ive seen he is a pretty hard core socialist trying to justify Venezuela. So i fully believe that he thinks that.
dirtWeevil
Well-Known Member
imho the only way to arrive at a better society is to quit believing in one system only will save us all. We are essentially falling victim to the schism our human brain with its two sides forces upon us. If it's not great, it's terrible, it has to be black or white, red or blue, us or them, etc. ad nauseum.
controlling means of production sounds ok on paper but: Humans. in history this inevitably leads to control by the few, what starts out as enough for all quickly turns to "two for me 1/16 for you, on Tuesdays and Thursdays in the essentials line at the ministry of toiletries bureau office in state capitol.
what I would like to see is a melting of ideas from every side, tossing the parts that we know dont work and keeping what does. In a nutshell this would be my magic wand strategy:
1. We give up trying to legislate genitalia, human sexuality, religion, and reproduction.
2. Focus on a diverse energy strategy that includes fossil fuels and genuine investment into every energy source we have available, because no one technology alone is going to fulfill energy needs, again that pesky two half brain.
3. A simple tax code. businesses always lawyer down their tax debt, why not just get an average of what businesses in certain size ranges end up actually paying and set brackets with those percentages. imagine if businesses didn't have to pay teams of lawyers and other professionals to try and navigate the tax laws, tax day would be as simple as cutting a check, and could be calculated in house by accounting. Give small business one easy low rate and individuals a lower one, or none at all. Institute one flat sales tax, again making things simpler.
4. Instead of slashing programs to death with arbitrary cuts why not spend some of the cash to actually get on the ground and cut out the waste only, throwing out baby with the bathwater is one sides go to.
5. Term limits FFS.
6. Make election day a holiday and expand polling place locations. Something I would do would be to place kiosks in busy places and rural areas all over. These kiosks would be used for citizens to read and place a non binding vote on upcoming local, state, and federal legislation before the actual vote. This info would be compiled and sent to the appropriate representative and once they cast their vote citizens who voted at the kiosk would get a notification as to how they voted.
this is my short list of unicorn dreams lol
StonerCol
Well-Known Member
I agree. The system does need changing. Also the way people think and debate needs changing. If I say I don't like blue, people automatically assume I'm red and attack it whereas all I'm saying is I don't like blue.
The politicians can't get away with a 1 Party State but they like a 2 Party State because they have 50% chance of being in power. If we had 4 political parties that statistic probability reduces to 25%. In effect this means that politicians have to work harder to get out vote because we have more choice. A bit like if you have a choice between 1 car manufacturer or 4. Choice and competition are good for us but not so much for the ruling classes.
I agree that one system will not work for all. What we need to do is get away from labels. People use labels to shut down debate. If I propose a certain policy, the people that don't like it look to label it in the worst possible terms instead of debating the issue. People get called "Commies" when they have perhaps a left-leaning slant to their politics. Then the masses - or the less eductaed part of that demographic - shout "Commis scum" and so that label sticks, aided by the Right Wing press and that policy is kicked to the kerb instead of haing an open and honest debate about it.
We need a set of policies that work for the majority. Whatever labels are cynically attached to those policies doesn't matter. It's the results that copunt, not the means by which they are achieved.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Because of Citizens United, we have two parties that represent the interests of the rich, and only the rich. This will last until the rest of us figure out who's stealing our prosperity and that we outnumber them.
We have two right wing parties in this country, the better to preserve the illusion of 'choice' in a 'free' and 'Democratic' society. The reality is the same outcome with both sides.
The politics of division and name calling and extreme labels serves the purposes of the rich to maintain control and extend their power over our society.
Both sides agree that things were much better in the 1950s and 60s, but aren't willing to acknowledge that many of the reasons they were better are considered 'socialist' by today's badly (and deliberately) skewed standards.
The worst part is a large number of poor people who support the right wing rich man's ideology in direct conflict with their own self interest. Unless that changes, the situation will continue to get worse, leading to another catastrophe of our own making; Great Crash, followed by Great Depression. Amazing that we know what will happen, yet we continue to do all the wrong things anyway.
StonerCol
Well-Known Member
No. I'm saying that essential commodities like water should not be exposed to the same market forces that a Gucci handbag or a Ferrari sports car are. Nobody should own water but in reality they do. Water should be provided as a result of people paying taxes. Those taxes should be used to extract, clean and distribute water. What has happened is like the Ferrari or Gucci handbag, some can afford it and some cannot, at least afford to use as much as they want.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Noooooo he just explained what's wrong with Venezuela and you didn't listen because you're stuck on ideology instead of facts.
What happened to your old account, cool2burn?
StonerCol
Well-Known Member
You clearly haven't got the intellect to understand what I think. Either that or you are wilfully misrepresenting what I say just for the sake of it.
What do you mean justify Venezuela? To any person with a modicum of intellect it is plainly obvious that Venezuela is corrupt. That corruption is the problem, not the political system. Nigeria is another very similar case in point. Both countries should be very well off but the cash is in the bank accounts of a tiny minority.
I'm guessing you're a part of the far right so anyone slightly to the left of centre appears to be a hard core socialist.
Anyway, you're being ignored by me now because I don't bother with thick right wing assholes. Have a very shitty day
StonerCol
Well-Known Member
I've never really understood why people of the 95% want to join the 5% club when they've seen and experienced what that 5% club does to them. The 95% are being sold a dream that they will never achieve yet they don't change their dream, they just burn themselves out trying to change clubs. Weird if you ask me!
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
The median income in this country per year is $35,000. This means half of everybody who works make less. In a household of four, you need to make about $50,000 to get by in a decent but by no means luxurious way. I'm talking about food, shelter, transportation, insurance, health care, college savings, and savings for retirement. Asshats like you act as if half the country are just slackers. Not the ones I've met. To say to more than half the workers in this country, "live within your means" at less than 35k is, as some on this site would say, retarded.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Did you know that every Democratic Party caucus Senator supported Bernie's bill to repeal Citizens United? The only reason we don't have an amendment to repeal CU is because every Republican Sentator supported the filibuster to block it. A few weeks later, 12 Democratic Party caucus senators were voted out and replaced by Republicans. There is now no chance of repealing CU. This, because voters in many states support Republicans.
You are deluded to say that the Democratic Party does not support repeal of CU. The evidence is in the Congressional Record..
Then again, you don't even understand the demographics behind support for "right wing rich man's ideology". If it were up to lower income working class, we'd have Hillary as prez and Democratic control of Congress. The largest demographic in the way is white men aged 45 and up with incomes better than 50,000 per year. Not the working poor at all.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Yep, you nailed it on all fronts with this post.You clearly haven't got the intellect to understand what I think. Either that or you are wilfully misrepresenting what I say just for the sake of it.
What do you mean justify Venezuela? To any person with a modicum of intellect it is plainly obvious that Venezuela is corrupt. That corruption is the problem, not the political system. Nigeria is another very similar case in point. Both countries should be very well off but the cash is in the bank accounts of a tiny minority.
I'm guessing you're a part of the far right so anyone slightly to the left of centre appears to be a hard core socialist.
Anyway, you're being ignored by me now because I don't bother with thick right wing assholes. Have a very shitty day
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Americans view themselves as either rich or temporarily embarrassed millionaires. This distorts our thinking and our politics. Building a strong middle class should be the goal and we'd have a much stronger economy for everyone if we did.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Or just plain mean-spirited and self serving. Sounds like more rich people propaganda.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I think it's just another entitled white man who takes for granted his advantages.
blu3bird
Well-Known Member
I grew up dirt poor, I don't take anything for granted.
I watched my parents struggle to pay bills when I was growing up, they both worked full time. But we lived within our means as best we could until my dad got a better paying job elsewhere. My parents didn't take loans they couldn't afford to pay back. They didn't have more kids than they could afford. They didn't have cars they couldn't afford payments on. They worked hard and saved their money. I had good parents that taught me the value of hard work and saving my money, I'll guess you consider that some kind of advantage or privilege?
I have never said I'm entitled to anything. No one owes me a damn thing, if I want something, I will eagerly work my ass off for it, I don't expect free shit. Unlike YOU.
YOU are the one who obviously thinks they are entitled to something.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Do the math chowder head. Do you have any idea what a money supply is? It's the total amount of money available in the US. More than half of all that money is in the hands of 1% in the country. Of what's left, half is in the hands of people who make more than 50,000. This leaves a fraction to be divided among half of everybody - the "working poor" income levels. And you say to them, just make more. There isn't more. Unless we start distributing wealth more equitably.
The rest of your whine is about you. Nice story, bro. It has nothing to do with the point I made that "just make more" is a ridiculous thing to say. It works for a few, you I suppose but it's hardly meaningful to half of all workers in the country.
And yes, you grew up with two white parents who taught you the basics. Probably in a mostly white neighborhood where you saw how other people made it. Was that your doing? Nope, you won the genetic lottery and were born into a relatively good situation. Instead of appreciating your good fortune, you cast shade on people who weren't born lucky like you. I could go into how white rural america is failing because they expect it all to be handed to them and are tearing down everybody else without even recognizing they have it better than the people they are tearing down. But I won't. Because it hurts white men's feelings.
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