2 Room flat (apartment) 1st real grow - advice?

It's pointless worrying about the amps because of the contactor you will use.


The problem is the amount of power kwh you will use which is how you get charged.
If your flat is using 4x more electricity than neighbouring flats then this could ring alarm bells. I know its a token meter but they still get read by meter readers.


Most people build their own ebb and flow tables.
Have you looked at the IWS systems?

they are individual pot based flood and drain systems.


J

Hey man just reading this, you say you're slightly worried about the electricity usage and are considering the switch to LEDs. I'm not affiliated with them, nor have I grown with them, I'm still learning myself, but I've seen a few independent grows with their lights, its called the HH pro-grow 400 and it uses 290 watts and the gentleman using it got just under a pound with some autos from nirvana. Not particularly high yielding strains, about 4-500 g/m^2, but they were very nice nuggies, I'll link it. http://www.growmedical420.com/11627/pro-grow-400-l-e-d-grow-light-wrap-up/ I'm between them, blackstar's 240w or their new 180w chrome, and maybe on down the line I'll pick up a magnum. All these units should run with about 1/3 to 1/2 of the energy it costs to operate an HPS system. Keep in mind these don't compare at a 180watt LED out growing a 600 watt HPS. It will be more like a 290 (true draw) LED will be on par with a 600 HPS. Yield will suffer slightly from what I understand, about 3/4 oz per plant, but if you're vegging these at all, and can pull more weight because of training and veg time, IMHO it's worth it. If you're worried about meeting production standards and want minimal work, ebb & grow would be better with a SOG approach, only have to worry about raising lights once a week, changing rez out, and mixing nutes. That's a lot less hassle than training plants in veg and weaving them through the screen in flower, but I promise SCROG yeilds results like mad. I've seen guys pull 600 g's in a .8m x .8m with CFLs and a screen and 1 plant. Imagine what you could do with higher quality lighting and hydro's growth rate. He vegged 1 month, if you could veg 2, which is how long the plant takes anyways to show sex even if you force flower, (its not mature enough until then,) I feel confident you could 1 up that kind of yield. Just my 2 cents.

jondamon said:

It's pointless worrying about the amps because of the contactor you will use.


The problem is the amount of power kwh you will use which is how you get charged.
If your flat is using 4x more electricity than neighbouring flats then this could ring alarm bells. I know its a token meter but they still get read by meter readers.


Most people build their own ebb and flow tables.
Have you looked at the IWS systems?
they are individual pot based flood and drain systems.
J

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Thing is, nobody else is gonna be in the flat except me and the grow and the only electrics im going to use are for the grow op! - does that change things?

Yea I seen those IWS systems, actually they are the ones i was going to consider investing in to begin with until i heard about these tavbles. Then i thought the reason for the tables is so you can pack more plants together and sog properly? Can i sog with the IWS systems? It doesn't seem practical but when and if I get confused about all this i will just end up getting IWS system... but how many systems and how many pots per system for 2 x 1000w? .. (made my mind up about the lights)

Seriously can't be assed building tables, I am afraid DIY isnt option for me.

Jman thanks for your 2 cents bro.. to be honest I'm probably not even going to talk about LED's again until my next grow. Its the price of them that puts me off for first grow really.. I want to keep costs at need-to-grow basis.

Soo... anyone know if super lemon haze is SOGabble? lol I feel like crying I can't make my mind up what hydro setup to get.

The 1000w lights will give you a per light footprint of around 4.5ft x 4.5ft and it will allow you to grow plants to be 4-5ft tall due to great penetration. The average UK home uses around 13kwh of electricity each day. You will have that in one 12hour cycle with a 1000w. I'm tired of doing maths for people on here right now. So you can work it out yourself. J

how many flood & drain systems and how many pots per system for 2 x 1000w then? any recommendations.. I mean with IWS systems obviously not table style. They do 6, 12, 24, 48 pot systems!

You could do the 24pot system and hang a 1000w above each set of 12 plants. With the IWS systems you can arrange plants to be closer or further apart as the flood and drain is separated into pots rather than a table making it more forgiving. As for the electric usage, its a tough call. Imagine the neighbours are using a maximum of 20kwh per day in their flats, you will be using around 24kwh on just your lights for a 12hour cycle. Then comes all the heat to deal with 2 1000w lights and with such a small flat with no attic access cooling is going to be your main concern. Portable AC units usually run around 0.9kwh per hour. So add this to your existing 24kwh, chances are you'll run the AC for 24hours a day with it kicking on full power for 12 hours and your 24kwh on lights plus around 16kwh for AC and your up to 40kwh of electric usage which is double your neighbours. If I tell you before I started growing in a 2bed terrace with 2 occupants I was using between 10-13kwh a day. Then I added a 600w with a 660cmh fan and a 280cmh fan along with a small heater and I doubled my daily usage to between 23-26kwh. Then there is also the humidity that comes with growing without being able to vent completely away. You could get condensation build up on the inside of windows throughout the entire flat in which case a dehumidifier would need to be used at 0.221kwh per hour of usage. So before you know it you could be using 50kwh per day. J

Theres the pics of the closets finally... the one that comes out into the room is the bigger one.. the other 2 pics are the one that goes into the wall and slightly less far back... just editing the room pics to make them slightly clearer and brighter then will upload them..

as for electric consumption i rang a mate and asked him about it he said the same thing that it may show alarmingly high to the leccy company.. I rang hydro shop also and asked them what would be safe and they said anthing over like 4000w watts of lighting would start to get suspiscious.. so i dunno.. I think I might just go for 3 600s if worst comes to worst.. as for heat i have no experience with this so I didnt expect too much of a problem considering the size of the room and the fact i will vent through one window (filtered air) and draw in fresh air from another room in the house... I was hoping that would deal with heat issue and I could change the time the fans are running in order to get temps balanced enough? hmm... I'm in mixed minds about all this and I have to go get the equip on Monday so time is running thin!

Do you plan on using the closets or the rooms themselves because those closets only look big enough for 400's!!!

hydro stores unfortunately are in the business of selling the equipment and they want you to buy as much you can!

Alot of hydro stores will sell you a 5" fan to cool a 600-1000 which is NOT ENOUGH fan power.

Give me some room dimensions and I can work out what will be best for you.



J

You don't need that much light if you have big balls. Lots of small plants in a perpetual SOG can up your yield dramatically. Of course you will be looking at serious time if you get busted. You can put thousands of plants under only a couple lights. It requires huge work though. You might want to consider tissue culture cloning as well if you go that route.

I was reading this thread yesterday, I think it does a decent job explaining the why's. Also a pretty good example of someone doing something impressive with very little light. He's pulling down 2 oz (or more) a week off a little over 200w of CFL's.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=69713&pp=15&page=4

Anyway you might be able to run a couple 600's vertically and get a pretty insane result.... you would have to harvest once a week and be willing to go to jail though. The fact you're doing this with other people - already a bit of a red flag.

Running a vertical setup will save you money on reflectors as well.

Another thing is that by venting clean HOT air out a window FLIR would pick this up on fly by's. people would also hear the rising air coming out not to mention serious condensation around the window being used.

Unfortunately at present your plan seems quite flawed , UNLESS this is a one time grow in this location.



J

jondamon said:

Do you plan on using the closets or the rooms themselves because those closets only look big enough for 400's!!!

Give me some room dimensions and I can work out what will be best for you.

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Nooo was planning closets for mother and other for clones!! Room dimensions coming soon or when i can guess from memory lol

OGEvilgenius said:

You don't need that much light if you have big balls. Lots of small plants in a perpetual SOG can up your yield dramatically. Of course you will be looking at serious time if you get busted. You can put thousands of plants under only a couple lights. It requires huge work though. You might want to consider tissue culture cloning as well if you go that route.

Anyway you might be able to run a couple 600's vertically and get a pretty insane result.... you would have to harvest once a week and be willing to go to jail though. The fact you're doing this with other people - already a bit of a red flag.

Running a vertical setup will save you money on reflectors as well.

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How the hell do i run a vertical setup? it sounds good! I think of myself as a scientist so even though this is my first grow i am willing to try anything if it means more bud less money!! I want to SOG but i dont know the details behind it like how to tie the plants to that metal screen.. and how to do it with a IWS (intelligent water systems) setup.. hmm Can i move the pots really close together? or are the tube lengths fixed J?

jondamon said:

Another thing is that by venting clean HOT air out a window FLIR would pick this up on fly by's. people would also hear the rising air coming out not to mention serious condensation around the window being used.

Unfortunately at present your plan seems quite flawed , UNLESS this is a one time grow in this location.

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I am on top floor so nothing above my window.. also there is a huge vent exuaust one of those seperate metal ones like the restaurants have... thats right next to my window (the part where the hot air comes out) ... no idea where it comes from (well i do but not going to say on a forum).. anyway.. so i was hoping noise etc was camouflaged by that.. ( i have thought this through a LITTLE you know!!) haha room pics coming in a few secs

Im sorry for all the blotches im a paranoid guy i have too much to lose let me know your thoughts guys really appreciate the comments up to now!

I think you are a little confused about SOG and SCROG.

SOG is SEA OF GREEN. Lots of little plants. There's more numbers of plants but less grams per plant

SCROG is SCREEN OF GREEN. where a mesh screen is placed above a few plants and you bend the plants under the screen as they Veg through it once the screen is 75% full you flip to 12/12 and continue bending them under the screen until its 100% full.

J

Rooms seem plenty big enough for lights.


You may have better luck bringing in air from the windows and venting the grows into the main living area in the flat. Thus saving money on heating.


Dimensions though would help me equate fan sizes etc.


j

jondamon said:

You may have better luck bringing in air from the windows and venting the grows into the main living area in the flat. Thus saving money on heating.

Dimensions though would help me equate fan sizes etc.
j

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i would say around under 5.5m length up to the window.. maybe 4.5 .. like 1 and a half car length lol
i would say 2.5metres wide and around 2.5 high..

in the 4th picture im standing roughly in the middle of the room

the big closet is around 1m x 1m the one you can see with buckets of paint.. so maybe that can help judge the height.

Otherwise will have to wait till i visit the room tomorrow if i absolutely have to.

This is stuff stuff i had an oz of the other day... this is the outcome i want in my buds! I think it was super lemon haze not 100% sure.

edit: oh yea as you were saying there would be a heat problem i guess bringing air from ouside would be good idea as its nice and cold out there.. then i'm guessing the lights will give the balancing effect.. I'm still thinking maybe roll with 3 600s cant make up my mind..

5.5x2.5x2.5 gives you your meters cubes area of 34.375m3

multiply 34.375x60 to exchange the air once a minute and you are well over 2000m3h for a fan for that room.

So I think you would need something like a 12" RVK , I think the model number is RVK315A1. These fuckers are freaking loud!!!!!!!!


you may have more joy putting up some stud walling to create a more manageable room size within the room.

Tents in this case may be your better option.
If we are talking tents you are gonna want maybe a 2x2x2 tent to fit into the room per 1000w light this way you would have enough room for all your equipment and a grow area of 1.5x1.5 floor space. 1.5x1.5x2 is 4.5m3 x 60 to give your air replenishing of 270m3.

This way I would recommend a 6" RVK150L1 with a good Rhino filter capable of running over 700m3h through it. This setup x2 would give you 2x1000w flowering areas.


J

firsttimeARE said:

You got a lot of space mate, so your options are endless.

Price is your biggest hinderance so like trichome just said skip the tents. Get some 5mil black white poly and use that as temp walls if you need it, which I don't think you do.

What I would do is follow Al B Fuct's harvest every 2 weeks. Use Room A and use the closet for a mom area and the other closet for clones. Get 4 flood and drain setups with 4 55 gal barrels for their reservoirs. Get a 600w over each table or like he does 1k over two tables. 1k's would be cheaper since you only have to buy 2 ballasts, but 4 600w's would rock that shit harder.

Get like 6 moms setup to provide those amounts of cuttings. A 400w MH would be enough for those, i'd probably got 4ft 6 or 8 tube t5ho as the footprint will be much larger. Get a few 48" t8's or t12s for the clones and SOG that room out. You can go as much as 4 plants a square foot. ABF does 2.7/per because he puts 24 buckets in each of his 900mm tables. With that amount he says he gets 16-20oz every harvest. Thats 1792-2240g per 8 weeks.

SOGing with 0 veg time is good cause now you don't need separate lighting for veg, just a mom light a clone light and your flowering lights. It's the cheapest and easiest way you're going to get those yields.

If you're a beginner there will be a learning curve. Took me a few months to learn hydro and a month to learn cloning.

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Reckon i could fir a t5 in that closet? and 6 moms? lol and how am i gonna vent the closets? and can i grow in the four different stages using one kit and 1 res (i think the answer is no but just checking anyway - as i dont know much about nutrients at different stages of flowering)..

isnt it better to scrog with less plants (less jail time lol).. and get the same effect with the mesh screen as sog would give?

the guy from the hydro shop recommended i used 8 pot system IWS (even though they only do 6, 12, 24, etc).. and do 8 pots per 1k so 16 pots in total.. but hes not on RIU so what does he know! I was thinking use those 8 pots and train the plants to produce max bud.. hmm

jondamon said:

5.5x2.5x2.5 gives you your meters cubes area of 34.375m3

So I think you would need something like a 12" RVK , I think the model number is RVK315A1. These fuckers are freaking loud!!!!!!!!
you may have more joy putting up some stud walling to create a more manageable room size within the room.

Tents in this case may be your better option.
If we are talking tents you are gonna want maybe a 2x2x2 tent to fit into the room per 1000w light this way you would have enough room for all your equipment and a grow area of 1.5x1.5 floor space. 1.5x1.5x2 is 4.5m3 x 60 to give your air replenishing of 270m3.

This way I would recommend a 6" RVK150L1 with a good Rhino filter capable of running over 700m3h through it. This setup x2 would give you 2x1000w flowering areas.

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How loud exactly? lol loud enough to hear if you were in the neighboring flat? I could try hanging on those rubber rings like i seen in the grow videos? hmm .. Ok will if tents are the only option left thats fine as long as it doesn't sacrifice the yields mentioned in the cycles discussed earlier like 0 veg time and straight into flowering.. surely i would need lots of pots.. those IWS systems are quite expensive its around £600-650 for 24 pot system! so 2 would be 1200 just on the hydro system!!! thats nuts! If thats what it comes down to though...

Unfortunately no one can answer that question except you.

Initially for a first grow using 1000w and not knowing much about nutrient requirements means your probably only going to pull 500g per lighting system. Mainly because you need experience to see plant reaction and nutrient res monitoring etc.

SCROG unfortunately is also time consuming and it takes a fair bit of time to fill 75% of a 1.5x1.5 mesh screen. You could be talking 4months from start to finish using SCROG.

SOG however is quicker because plants are flowered at a smaller height and turn around is quicker.

Correct everything on one IWS res would need to be at the same stage of growth. Hence why I said two tents one for each 1000w.

The 8 pot is a good idea per tent.


J