topfuel29
Well-Known Member
Your right, and those plants are called clones.
12/12 from seed vs plant maturity
- Thread starter syphex
- Start date
kingmat8787
Active Member
3 weeks of veg, 8 weeks of flower...why not just do it the way its been done....if you planning on do all that training why not just give it the 3 weeks of veg to show sex, if your worried about stretch get over it, the plants are gonna stretch reguardless, its all about using that stretch to your style of growing, some people supercrop some lst some top, some do em all...i do all over a 4 week vegg from seed , 3 weeks from clone, and end up with 4-6 foot monsters every time.....i supercrop the shit outta my girls to keep em at that 5 foot mark but i let em be as soon as nugs start forming cause then your looking to adversly affect yeild...peace
YES!
I agree not to meddle once buds start forming... thats the time for all the stress theyv endured to pay off, and they can enjoy their path to sinsemilla in our artificial sunset..
But I don't understand what you mean... whats "the way its been done"? I just said I am going to give it 3 weeks veg. Stretch is very important, and is an adverse side affect of the 12/12 photoperiod directly related to less light received which activates the hormone in the plant to stretch above other plants canopies to strive for light... something we want to avoid when we want to maximise number of nodes per unit of height.
NO! EVERYTHING U SAID IS WRONG!
Apart from the flower thing... I never said anything about increasing the flower time wtf? And we've just established that NO plant is a good candidate for 12/12 from seed... that was the whole point of this thread. What you said is the opposite of truth, cutting the veg time you would harvest a taller plant sooner, because of the unnecessary stretching during the early stages.
And sativas are an even worse candidate for 12/12 from seed what are you saying? Besides the height conflicts with my own height restrictions, and the increased flowering time conflicts with my time restrictions.
topfuel29
Well-Known Member
You can control any height issues easy.
root pruning,
chemically, bush master stops elongation.
light, HPS with decrease intermodal length.
disturbing the meristem, FIM
or any combination.
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Ive got a seed its called Cum Laude got it free from additude seeds, any way it has a 2 week veg time, its a short day plant. Grows like crazy. Reason for the short veg time.
root pruning,
chemically, bush master stops elongation.
light, HPS with decrease intermodal length.
disturbing the meristem, FIM
or any combination.
---
Ive got a seed its called Cum Laude got it free from additude seeds, any way it has a 2 week veg time, its a short day plant. Grows like crazy. Reason for the short veg time.
ruderal
Member
It is worth noting that each strain may respond differently to 12/12 from the beginning, and that not every plant will stretch. Er..i suppose a few people alluded to that. Plant hormones gear up during each phase, and I speculate that 'flowering hormones' and the process of flowering is initiated at the 10 day period you specified when exposed exclusively to 12/12. Various biochemical pathways are developing and establishing themselves. The growth mechanism of 'secondary growth' includes conversion of stem epithelium to harder, more fibrous matter and because the seedling is receiving a nudge to enter into flowering so early, cytokinins that elongate plant cells without bulking them up--causing 'stretching'--may very well be apparent. This is not to say that flowering hormones are not present at all, but according to the field of botany, plant growth from seed to flower includes complex interactions between plant hormones and environment that are not well researched or understood by botanists or scientists themselves.
There is a plant growth regulator that increases yields and could augment stretching, although the latter point is just a hypothesis. T ri aco nta nol is present in plants and, well, makes them grow. External applications--although some fertilizers also have this compound--increase bud sites, enhance amount/development of flowers, and foster robust growth. On the web ppl have speculated that su pe r th ri ve contains the plant growth regulator, but other commercial products reputing notable side effects are out there. I bought the 'pure' compound to be solublized in poly so rb ate twenty and small quantities of the preparation work quickly. You can see the effects in under a day.
I believe that clones could benefit from the same plant growth regulator or special supplement compounds.
Another thing to combat stretching could be to include a product with soluble silica which strengthens cell walls.
There is a plant growth regulator that increases yields and could augment stretching, although the latter point is just a hypothesis. T ri aco nta nol is present in plants and, well, makes them grow. External applications--although some fertilizers also have this compound--increase bud sites, enhance amount/development of flowers, and foster robust growth. On the web ppl have speculated that su pe r th ri ve contains the plant growth regulator, but other commercial products reputing notable side effects are out there. I bought the 'pure' compound to be solublized in poly so rb ate twenty and small quantities of the preparation work quickly. You can see the effects in under a day.
I believe that clones could benefit from the same plant growth regulator or special supplement compounds.
Another thing to combat stretching could be to include a product with soluble silica which strengthens cell walls.
I don't like the idea of root pruning as that seems to lean on the side of stunting growth.
Thanks you just piqued my interest in using chemical plant additives.
HPS seems to cause the most stretching I've seen... Im going to use LEDs to stop stretching and HPS for flower.
Please elaborate on "disturbing the meristem", that sounds really interesting.
I will do as many combinations of as many things as possible.
That strain sounds interesting, I understand the reason for the short veg time but im sure you would benefit from longer veg times. Maybe you can cross this strain with others to promote rapid growth?
Yeah im sure different strains will respond differently to different growth phenomenon (lack of a better word). I was under the impression that cytokinins function is independent of the stage of the plant.. and that it was a simple matter of more light received = less cytokinin activity but now I realise that may have been naive.
Why are you seperating the words? At first I thought you were sounding the word out for me
But now I guess its probably to stop that stupid auto highlighting thing that pops up everytime I say seedsSo you are saying to use addives/nutrients with T ri aco nta nol? Because it will make them grow better? Superthrive is one product I've noticed in the hydro stores... theres also
"Brix yield enhancer" (pretty self explanitory)
"Earth Juice Microblast - Chelated micronutrients are more readily available and safer for plant uptake. These micronutrients are buffered in a blend of phyto acids, sugars & chelating agents. Contains magnesium, boron, cobalt, iron, manganese, molybdenum, zinc,and copper in an or...",
"Sulphate of Potash is a soluble fertiliser providing strength to plants, colour and perfume to flowers, flavour and colour to fruits. " - (I am interested in this as I am growing blue mystics and REALLY want the purple color for the bag appeal.. so far I've heard of adding blueberries during flower)
Liquid Lead optimises harvest weight and enhances flavour and taste.
Fulvic acid is a powerful organic electrolyte, which can balance and energize all cells (an electrolyte is a substance soluble in water and other mediums, which is capable of conducting an electrical current). The physical well-being of plants and microbes is determined by proper electrical potential.
Fulvic acid features a unique capacity to dissolve minerals and trace elements. This features has tremendous import for fast-tracking the plant availability of metallic micronutrients, iron, copper, zinc and manganese.
Fulvic acid is a potent, natural chelating agent, converting metallic elements into readily absorbable, bio available nutrition, and it's very low molecular size enables fulvic chelated minerals rapid entry through plant walls.
Fulvic acid is the ultimate nutrient stability facilitator, as it has a phenomenal cation exchange capacity of 1400.
Fulvic acid enhances cell division and elongation. Root growth is magnified with obvious benefits for root crops.
Fulvic acid can detoxify pollutants in hydroponic media. They absorb and catalyze the rapid breakdown of toxins.
Fulvic acid offers drought protection, due to improved moisture storage and because it can build brix levels. High brix plants are less prone to wilting.
Fulvic acid is responsible for an increase in stomata opening and transpiration and assists plant respiration as well as improving the respiration of beneficial micro-organisms.
Fulvic acid directly influences numerous enzymatic processes and stimulates the plant in many ways.
Fulvic acid can interact with HID light to enhance photosynthesis.
Fulvic acid increases the permeability of plant membranes, Improving the uptake of nutrients.
Fulvic acid is non-toxic.
No withholding period.
ANY EXPERIENCE WITH ANY OF THESE??? OMG so many how can I possibly optimize all these? Can I use them all at the same time? Or will some cancel each other out/do the same thing/cause nute burn? Obviously before "final rinse" products. I guess I'll be advised to try one at a time and see its effects but I think I'll go to the store and end up with a couple hundred bottles
edit: Just an aside, is there any product/recipe that you can like, spray on the buds afterwards to keep the trichromes from falling off???? Im thinking something sticky like honey but I woulden't wanna affect the flavour too obviously.
topfuel29
Well-Known Member
My first grow was a cab grow. I only had 24" total head room. I used bubble-phonics. 3" thick tote, w/ a 400w HPS, root pruned to control height. Your right every root prune sets the plant back about 7-10 days. When you pinch the meristem you break the plants axial dominance, it doesn't know what's up any more. Causing the plant to bush out. Personally I use bush master. I use it in transition from veg to flower to stop elongation from flowering. It works, it will stop the plant dead in its tracks from elongation.
i would look at sum Bonsia techniques, there's alot of good info to control size.
i would look at sum Bonsia techniques, there's alot of good info to control size.
ruderal
Member
I separated certain words because I didn't want the info to pop up in a search engine, etc.Yeah im sure different strains will respond differently to different growth phenomenon (lack of a better word). I was under the impression that cytokinins function is independent of the stage of the plant.. and that it was a simple matter of more light received = less cytokinin activity but now I realise that may have been naive.
Why are you seperating the words? At first I thought you were sounding the word out for me
So you are saying to use addives/nutrients with T ri aco nta nol? Because it will make them grow better? Superthrive is one product I've noticed in the hydro stores... theres also "Brix yield enhancer"
ANY EXPERIENCE WITH ANY OF THESE??? OMG so many how can I possibly optimize all these? Can I use them all at the same time? Or will some cancel each other out/do the same thing/cause nute burn? Obviously before "final rinse" products. I guess I'll be advised to try one at a time and see its effects but I think I'll go to the store and end up with a couple hundred bottles
edit: Just an aside, is there any product/recipe that you can like, spray on the buds afterwards to keep the trichromes from falling off???? Im thinking something sticky like honey but I woulden't wanna affect the flavour too obviously.
Each plant hormone is present throughout growth and the plant's life, but the levels of concentration will vary in response to the age of the plant, environmental factors, and growing techniques.
By mixing a trifling amount (5mg is recommended but I used more) of triacontanol with the food-grade/commercial-grade solublizer polysorbate 20 and 1-3 tablespoons of water, one can obtain a plant growth regulating concentrate after heating the mixture in 20-30 second intervals until the triacontanol powder appears to dissolve. The polysorbate 20 penetrates the protective coatings of the leaves to introduce the plant growth regulator and water that will be distributed throughout the plant. Triacontanol is naturally produced by plants, and may be extracted from alfalfa plants. It is an academic mystery at this time as to why such small quantities of this PGR have profound effects upon growth and flowering in the face of far higher endogenous levels of the triacontanol.
At this time I have not used a foliar feed WITH the triacontanol, although it would probably be ok to do that. It does not appear necessary. Also, I have not experienced any nute burn from foliar feeds (or watering). I know of no foliar spray that prevents trichome loss. I would advise against using honey because microbes and bugs would be attracted to your buds and feed on them. Plus when you light one up you would be burning and smoking sugar, and burnt sugar doesn't smell, look, or taste good.
Special additives can be used together or in staggered doses to err on the side of caution. I recommend triacontanol because it does not affect WHEN certain types of growth occur or for how long. It doesn't affect veg or flowering time. Gibberellin and auxins affect such growth stages and could seriously mess up your plant very easily--even with planning and informed decision-making. For 12/12 from seed plants and cuttings, gibberellin, auxins, and cytokinins could be useful to augment the shorter growth time so that it is more like any other plant. In agriculture and horticulture, professionals do it all the time to get bigger harvests faster to market.
bwest
Well-Known Member
Well this will be my first grow technically... I'm a bit confused about the triacontanol and solublizer polysorbate 20, where do you get them? Are they included in hydro/additive products or are you just taking horticultural experience and applying it to marijuana? Seems if these solutions worked they would already be used in products and you could tell me which products I listed might contain them?
EDIT: Found a product that says it contains triacontanol
[SIZE=-1]Final Bloom - Flowering Stimulant (Flowering week 6 & 7) - 1 Litre - NPK 0:0:0
*Stimulates a massive final bloom
*Results visible in 2-3 Days
Bloom FINAL is our finishing product for use in the last two weeks (before clearing solutions) to pump up flower weight and volume to gain extra yield. Formulated from the organic equivalent of plant Steroids, Triacontanol and rare earth minerals bloom FINAL stimulates a massive final bloom of flowers to develop.[/SIZE]
...
But I thought Triacontanol was something that improves vegetative growth from what you said??
Any idea on fulvic acid and humic acid?
Can using too many additives cause nute burn??
And I agree the honey is a terrible idea... I was more thinking of something like those flavours you can buy at the hydro stores to drip onto your buds (Or are you supposed to feed it to them? I don't know), but which dry sticky. Do you know of any non-toxic solution that dries sticky and doesn't affect burning? Some kind of glazing agent mayhaps? Note this would only be applied after the plants have been cut, to stop the trichromes falling off after/during harvest.
topfuel29
Well-Known Member
Your right there are some great long day plants.
HideSuperAutos
SuperAutos were created by breeder STITCH (FLASH seeds) in order to satisfy those growers looking for larger sativa plants with a more photoperiod / short-day feel to them. A SuperAuto (sometimes referred to as amazonian autos) starts flowering automatically only after a much longer vegetative period between 28/32 days most of the time. Just like other autoflowers changing the lighting schedule does not affect the flowering cycle of these strains. It is not unusual for SuperAutos to get over five feet tall with some becoming huge 8 foot bushes. The average life span of a SuperAuto is 90 to 110 days from seed as opposed to the shorter 5585 days with most common autoflowers. The added advantage of the longer life span is that slow maturing sativa phenotype have more time to develop and larger yields can be obtained.
HideSuperAutos
SuperAutos were created by breeder STITCH (FLASH seeds) in order to satisfy those growers looking for larger sativa plants with a more photoperiod / short-day feel to them. A SuperAuto (sometimes referred to as amazonian autos) starts flowering automatically only after a much longer vegetative period between 28/32 days most of the time. Just like other autoflowers changing the lighting schedule does not affect the flowering cycle of these strains. It is not unusual for SuperAutos to get over five feet tall with some becoming huge 8 foot bushes. The average life span of a SuperAuto is 90 to 110 days from seed as opposed to the shorter 5585 days with most common autoflowers. The added advantage of the longer life span is that slow maturing sativa phenotype have more time to develop and larger yields can be obtained.
