Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
My biggest thing is I don't want a container that is too wide...I can't have any wasted space so the closest the plants can be next to one another is the maximum pot width I can go.
12/12 From Seed Experiment - 21 Strains
- Thread starter Hot Diggity Sog
- Start date
Sativied
Well-Known Member
The clay, the artificial root that is, needs to soaked and enclosed tightly by a medium that attempts to suck water through the clay. That causes the pressure inside, which on my blumat tensiometer results in a digital reading but the blumat tropf (name is drip in german) uses that same system to pulls open a membrane to allow water through the drip line above it.
When you remove a cone to refill and move it back (or measure a different pot if using the meter for multiple pots or multiple spots in a large container) you ideally, according to blumat instructions, fill the hole from which the cone was removed with some dirt, add a little water so it become muddy, and then place the cone back. Even though that skews the reading initially and requires a couple of hours waiting, that all to ensure it encloses the clay part properly and operates accurately.
So it doesn't actually measure moisture but pressure (psi/bar), which for the artificial root is the same in water, air, and perlite ('zero' on the display, meaning fully saturated), meaning it would entirely fail and keep the lines closed.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
That's my issue too, with the added variable that I remove males and possibly some females. So I want to start with 36 plants, something similar but without perlite/medium (e.g. a sprayer or two in each container, mini low pressure aero chambers), would keep the roots from plants apart so I can move them around and remove plants without ripping roots apart. All easy enough BUT, once I'm back to like 9-12 plants or so, I don't want to waste the root space of the remaining 25 or so plants. In soil I obviously just pot up. I may at some point just settle for creating a 6x6 system and a separate 3x4 that can be scaled back to 3x3 if needed.
Anyway, I get the dilemma. So what is the grow space + light you will have available for the individual container grow? My main issue is that I rather not create and connect and maintain 36 or more individual hydro containers. If you have no problem doing that for example for a 4x4 space with a 750watter then my second point is less of an issue. Actually, doh... you're doing 12/12 from seed so you can ignore that part on getting root bound etc.
Was looking for another pic but I ended up placing 1 liter bottles, after cutting off the bottom like in the pic, on top of 2 liter bottles.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
That's some wound up roots! Yeah...in Chapter 1 I took apart some of the containers and they did not really look to be root bound. They actually had fewer roots than I expected....so I kind of think any option will be OK in regard to roots. I do have some interesting containers I'm looking at. I only have the clear ones but they make white and they are cheap.
http://www.thecarystore.com/containers-catalog/packaging-and-containers-plastic-containers-rectangular-ez-stor-containers-1-gallon-ez-store-pails-and-lids/1-gallon-white-ez-stor-plastic-pail-with-plastic-handle-56WEZT
They are approximately 8"x6"x8". I will be arranging whatever pots I use in a circle with a 600 hung vertically. I also just ordered some of these:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=37019&catid=752
Both of these are appealing not only because of their shape but they will stack great so I could put one with the plant into a 2nd one. 1st one has small drain holes, drain into 2nd and drain that into my catch pans. Going back to these single containers will allow me to move them around and also expand and shrink the circle as needed.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Chapter 3 Update
Day 25
Things are going OK...I can't say they are going great but they are not going terrible either. I've got a few experimental containers going and will be adding a few more in the coming days. Plan on starting a chapter 4 in parallel in a few weeks.
I increased the nutes and changed the water today. Been averaging water changes at about 5 days.
Many of them look a little droppy and sad. I've been continuing to water from the top manually but I'm going to stop as that might very well be the problem. The roots are nice and healthy looking but there is just a single tap in the water (granted it's long) and just does not seem like its pulling enough water. Maybe it is so I'll stop top watering.
The 1000 watt HPS is providing substantially more light than the 600 (duh). Having never actually seen a 1000 HPS, I'm pretty impressed.
Day 25
Things are going OK...I can't say they are going great but they are not going terrible either. I've got a few experimental containers going and will be adding a few more in the coming days. Plan on starting a chapter 4 in parallel in a few weeks.
I increased the nutes and changed the water today. Been averaging water changes at about 5 days.
Many of them look a little droppy and sad. I've been continuing to water from the top manually but I'm going to stop as that might very well be the problem. The roots are nice and healthy looking but there is just a single tap in the water (granted it's long) and just does not seem like its pulling enough water. Maybe it is so I'll stop top watering.
The 1000 watt HPS is providing substantially more light than the 600 (duh). Having never actually seen a 1000 HPS, I'm pretty impressed.
akhiymjames
Well-Known Member
How much water are they getting during the cycle could be a lil over watered but they look good. Very green just a lil drop that may be from too much water or like you said being watered from the top. I see those rockeool cubes and they hold moisture so that could be the reason right there too. They really haven't taken off much so when they do I think you will get the more pointing up look. Everything looks great I love how your always experimenting trying to make things better. Look forward to seeing more from you as always
Sativied
Well-Known Member
An NFT system like that takes some dialing in and as long as the roots are healthy and they get balanced nutes they should take off very soon. I think you'll be surprised. Tubes/nft is more suitable for rooted clones, so you directly get a bunch of them growing into the water.
That said, the drooping can be from a lack of oxygen in the nutrient solution, similar to overwatering. Once they get a little bigger they will transpire a lot more water. They are now roughly the size/age that I move them from dwc to tubes and then they do droop for a day or two before sort of adapting. I think the system could be improved by creating several entry points for the solution. That's the main advantage of the sprayers in the aeroflo and clones like mine, keeps the flow aerated and the first plant in line gets a similar solution as the last one. I stopped using the sprayers and used just the spaghetti lines to split the supply line to 8 small ones. If I rebuild tubes I do plan to use just a single point of entry for each tube, but those would be much shorter.
Edit: and the long roots is sort of normal in NFT. You don't get a root ball like in DWC. That's why I mentioned in pm I trimmed the tap early, to let it branch out like with topping. Not recommending you do that at this point but it's still an option. And yes, I think you should try without top watering, or less at least (prevent the cube from drying out entirely at most).
That said, the drooping can be from a lack of oxygen in the nutrient solution, similar to overwatering. Once they get a little bigger they will transpire a lot more water. They are now roughly the size/age that I move them from dwc to tubes and then they do droop for a day or two before sort of adapting. I think the system could be improved by creating several entry points for the solution. That's the main advantage of the sprayers in the aeroflo and clones like mine, keeps the flow aerated and the first plant in line gets a similar solution as the last one. I stopped using the sprayers and used just the spaghetti lines to split the supply line to 8 small ones. If I rebuild tubes I do plan to use just a single point of entry for each tube, but those would be much shorter.
Edit: and the long roots is sort of normal in NFT. You don't get a root ball like in DWC. That's why I mentioned in pm I trimmed the tap early, to let it branch out like with topping. Not recommending you do that at this point but it's still an option. And yes, I think you should try without top watering, or less at least (prevent the cube from drying out entirely at most).
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I currently have two 4" air stones in my 27 gallon reservoir with a 40 gallon Tetra air pump powering each stone. I also have a 268GPM water pump with a venturi adapter agitating and aerating the water. I can certainly add more if you guys think this is not enough.
akhiymjames
Well-Known Member
Like Sativied said they'll look much better me they take off. I think there fine and just have to get used to the setup. Still young plants so I would try to make some changes if the health goes downward. Long as they look good then keep it the same. Also like he said its gonna take a while t get this dialed in so keep doing what your doing and if things get worse make changes
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Cool, will do. Thanks so much guys for always looking in and helping out. Your feedback is incredibly valuable and very much appreciated.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I just popped 8 blue dream seeds into a cup of water. I'm going to prepare 8 more of these pvc containers.
2 with hydroton and air stone.
2 with hydroton and no air stone
2 with growstone and air stone
2 with growstone and no airstone
Growstone link if you're not familiar: I have some bags arriving this week to try em out...1st time.
http://www.growstone.com/hydroponic-substrate/
I really want to try perlite too but it clogs my drain line so I have to come up with a different idea...maybe I'll pop 2 more blue dreams and do these other buckets I have.
2 with hydroton and air stone.
2 with hydroton and no air stone
2 with growstone and air stone
2 with growstone and no airstone
Growstone link if you're not familiar: I have some bags arriving this week to try em out...1st time.
http://www.growstone.com/hydroponic-substrate/
I really want to try perlite too but it clogs my drain line so I have to come up with a different idea...maybe I'll pop 2 more blue dreams and do these other buckets I have.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
No, not aero. NFT in the big octagon-ish thing and just fiddling around different ideas for the others. Want to get another batch started in early August so I've got a month to figure out which direction to go with.
Melbs92
Well-Known Member
These are the ones I found man. I can't remember where specifically! But it's fun looking through all the other stuff they sell anyway! Haha.. Took me about 5 min! Hope this helps!
akhiymjames
Well-Known Member
Naw bro those are bubble bags for making hash pot sox are similar but hold medium in the pot to dispose of once finished. It allows the soilless medium to be drained easily with any medium coming through your lines
Melbs92
Well-Known Member
Damn. Thought I was on to something
akhiymjames
Well-Known Member
Here they are bro. Can only get them in Australia and UK but I haven't found a supplier that ships them cheap well maybe if I just ordered pot sox it wouldn't be bad but I want 4 of those 50L/15gal pots for my hydro system.Damn. Thought I was on to something
hayrolld
Well-Known Member
Hey Hot Diggity, I have an idea for this setup. If you Google 'capn style' you can see the hydro setup I was running before. You see more of it on 420mag and icmag than here. Basically, the hydro containers sit on the lid of a tote bin with relatively small pump in the bin that goes to top feed lines. You use pots that drain well (I used airpots) and put an empty net basket in a hole in the lid to let everything drain back down. Its a really simple but effective hydro system, and the multiple reservoirs let you adjust your nute mix for different strains.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I'll go find it and get reading...thanks!
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Is this the series: http://dudegrows.com/lets-captain-style-baby-part-1/