Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I'll be sticking with the Blue Planet Elite for this.
12/12 From Seed Experiment - 21 Strains
- Thread starter Hot Diggity Sog
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Mohican
Well-Known Member
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I don't see any reason to think that light will be able to get in but temps could be an issue. I did buy a chiller and will definitely be using it if needed. I want to try and keep the rez water around 68F right? Def not into the 70's?
Regarding the roots clogging the drain...this is something I'm concerned about. The return pipe can be easily removed and cleaned or replaced but I'm still concerned.
Mohican
Well-Known Member
I am still not sure what is the optimum water temp. I know in the summer the soil can get up to the 70s and that is when the plants explode with growth.
I have never measured the soil temp in my garden. I need to track the temps over the summer at different depths and see what nature does.
I have never measured the soil temp in my garden. I need to track the temps over the summer at different depths and see what nature does.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
From the little I know it seems that it's a balancing act. Warmer water can lead to better growth but contains less dissolved oxygen and is more prone to yuckies.
I'm going to do the best job I can at letting zero light in and keep the water as oxygenated as possible.
Mohican
Well-Known Member
Apparently it is dependant on the plant:
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/earthkind/ekgarden15.html
Cheers,
Mo
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/archives/parsons/earthkind/ekgarden15.html
Cheers,
Mo
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
That's a nice page...bookmarked.
Well...I hope I don't fuck this one up! haha
Mohican
Well-Known Member
Found this - specifically talks about cannabis:
"...in a true deep water culture system, (bubblebuckets/totes) where the roots actually are completely submerged in water all day everyday.... 68-70° is best.... no problem if it hits 72°....... same for RDWC or drip systems... but many studies have shown, and i agree, that if you are at 73° or above for any length of time you will begin to see problems. it could be in the form of algae, or brown slimy roots, but you will begin to see bad stuff if your water is too warm.
NFT systems can be a bit warmer as far as water goes...... because the roots are not 100% submerged in most systems. if you just have a thin layer of water running at the roots constantly, it can be up to 75°.
ebb and flow can be room temp water. 80°+. in a "true" ebb-n-flow system, the roots are flooded for a couple minutes, and then the water drains back out and the wet roots are left to air out. for this reason, the water can be warmer..."
"...in a true deep water culture system, (bubblebuckets/totes) where the roots actually are completely submerged in water all day everyday.... 68-70° is best.... no problem if it hits 72°....... same for RDWC or drip systems... but many studies have shown, and i agree, that if you are at 73° or above for any length of time you will begin to see problems. it could be in the form of algae, or brown slimy roots, but you will begin to see bad stuff if your water is too warm.
NFT systems can be a bit warmer as far as water goes...... because the roots are not 100% submerged in most systems. if you just have a thin layer of water running at the roots constantly, it can be up to 75°.
ebb and flow can be room temp water. 80°+. in a "true" ebb-n-flow system, the roots are flooded for a couple minutes, and then the water drains back out and the wet roots are left to air out. for this reason, the water can be warmer..."
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
More great info...thanks!
When my girls get going, there will be plenty of air in the PVC tubes but what I don't know yet is once the roots get massive, how much higher will the water level rise due to the roots acting as a dam. I'm probably going to try and error on side of safety for this 1st try and keep temps under 68.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Seeing pretty rapid germination and I grabbed one of the net pots at random and saw a little tappy coming out of the bottom...woohoo!
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
The vertical light was not really giving them much light so I put them under a normal reflector for now...600 MH of course.
Sativied
Well-Known Member
- Start with 350-400ppm (0.5 scale) for seedlings/small plants, 450-550 during veg, and 450-650 during flower. There's no medium to buffer the nutes so it quickly gets too much on the roots, while too little is hard in tubes. Or run 500ppm/1.0EC from start to finish and you won't have to measure 'if' you:
- refresh (the entire system's contents) frequently, at least once a week the first round, but no shame in doing it faster. If for example after 2-3 days it starts smelling like an aquarium, simply refresh (till you found the issue). If the PPM drops a lot during the week just add more frequently (opposed to dropping all the nutes for one week in the rez like many do with root probs as a result).
- Don't spike nutes, it's not about prevent overfeeding and burning of the plants, it's about growing high quantity and quality healthy plants, for which a balanced nutrient solution is key. Using unnecessary high ppm levels leads to more ph fluctuation, nutrient imbalance and above all unhealthy roots that become susceptible to pythium, hydrogrower's nr 1 enemy: http://www.eurohydro.com/pdf/articles/gb_pythium.pdf
- Mohican already mentioned light leaks and while they may seem unlikely, tripple-check it. Light will enter through the netcups if you don't cover/fill them but not all PVC is actually 100% lightproof, especially white. I think yours is fine. Hang a regular light bulb in an enclosed white elbow and see if it start glowing
- Temp, keep water between 64-69f. Good info what Mo posted but i.m.e. 69f is the limit.
- Keep pH on 5.6 to 6.2. If you suspect calmag def, or want to prevent it, run 6.2-6.4 for a few days a week. Don't aim to keep pH on one exact level, let it drift a little between those values. Use nitric acid for pH down.
I use 1 layer of hydroton / clay pebbles below the rockwool cube to prevent it from getting soaked 24/7. Since you don't, I'd keep an eye on that.
Your system turned out great, looks very clean and pro with the pipe holders you used for vertical support.
Although from a different nute company, they do have solid info:
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/index.php/resources/faqs/
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/instructions/AF30_inst.pdf (different setup but again relevant solid info).
Last but not least: get those tap roots in the water as soon as you can. Roots that didn't grow submerged will have a hard time adapting to it later, want them to grow up swimming instead of doing a sort of mini-hempy to hydroponics. Ideally you build a larger DWC tote or aero cloner and use that next time.
Last edited:
bf80255
Well-Known Member
im excited!!
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
Great info as usual. Regarding your last point, its not too late for me to switch from perlite to hydroton. I can fill the same type tub with hydroton and water and run air stones in it. Keep the water level like 1/4" below the bottom of the net pots?- Start with 350-400ppm (0.5 scale) for seedlings/small plants, 450-550 during veg, and 450-650 during flower. There's no medium to buffer the nutes so it quickly gets too much on the roots, while too little is hard in tubes. Or run 500ppm/1.0EC from start to finish and you won't have to measure 'if' you:
- refresh (the entire system's contents) frequently, at least once a week the first round, but no shame in doing it faster. If for example after 2-3 days it starts smelling like an aquarium, simply refresh (till you found the issue). If the PPM drops a lot during the week just add more frequently (opposed to dropping all the nutes for one week in the rez like many do with root probs as a result).
- Don't spike nutes, it's not about prevent overfeeding and burning of the plants, it's about growing high quantity and quality healthy plants, for which a balanced nutrient solution is key. Using unnecessary high ppm levels leads to more ph fluctuation, nutrient imbalance and above all unhealthy roots that become susceptible to pythium, hydrogrower's nr 1 enemy: http://www.eurohydro.com/pdf/articles/gb_pythium.pdf
- Mohican already mentioned light leaks and while they may seem unlikely, tripple-check it. Light will enter through the netcups if you don't cover/fill them but not all PVC is actually 100% lightproof, especially white. I think yours is fine. Hang a regular light bulb in an enclosed white elbow and see if it start glowing
- Temp, keep water between 64-69f. Good info what Mo posted but i.m.e. 69f is the limit.
- Keep pH on 5.6 to 6.2. If you suspect calmag def, or want to prevent it, run 6.2-6.4 for a few days a week. Don't aim to keep pH on one exact level, let it drift a little between those values. Use nitric acid for pH down.
I use 1 layer of hydroton / clay pebbles below the rockwool cube to prevent it from getting soaked 24/7. Since you don't, I'd keep an eye on that.
Your system turned out great, looks very clean and pro with the pipe holders you used for vertical support.
Although from a different nute company, they do have solid info:
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/index.php/resources/faqs/
http://generalhydroponics.com/site/gh/docs/instructions/AF30_inst.pdf (different setup but again relevant solid info).
Last but not least: get those tap roots in the water as soon as you can. Roots that didn't grow submerged will have a hard time adapting to it later, want them to grow up swimming instead of doing a sort of mini-hempy to hydroponics. Ideally you build a larger DWC tote or aero cloner and use that next time.
HappyMan420
Well-Known Member
sealing up the tubes from light penetration around the netpot holes was a concern i thought of
Sativied
Well-Known Member
Just read on the previous page you need to get the tap roots to be about 2" before moving to the tubes. Check out my post here where I depicted how I go about it. That's about 2" (in first taproot photo). Only a small part of that actually become submerged partly because of that layer of hydroton on the bottom of the cup, and indeed the water doesn't come up to touch the netcup. About 1/4" would work yes, it doesn't really matter as much as it may seem inititally. I go for roughly 1/3". No need to get it as close as possible from the plant's perspective anyway, it will have no problem sucking up water through several inches of air once it touched down.
I've done a lot of transplanting out of necessity as well as for giggles and transplanting "to" hydroponics (i.e. from medium to mediumless) while keeping the roots is really hard. Hydro roots (those grown submerged) can be transplanted to any medium but those fuzzy roots you get in for example perlite (or even a bed of hydroton) will have a hard time surviving submerged. The point is basically that you need to let the roots grow into the water rather than grow roots and then put them under water.
It's like with human babies, if they are born under water they can instinctively swim I clearly noticed that while the plant is still in germinating mode, rapidly growing that tap root, it adapts much easier and faster than if it has like a 4-inch tap with roots 'branching' out already.
I've done a lot of transplanting out of necessity as well as for giggles and transplanting "to" hydroponics (i.e. from medium to mediumless) while keeping the roots is really hard. Hydro roots (those grown submerged) can be transplanted to any medium but those fuzzy roots you get in for example perlite (or even a bed of hydroton) will have a hard time surviving submerged. The point is basically that you need to let the roots grow into the water rather than grow roots and then put them under water.
It's like with human babies, if they are born under water they can instinctively swim
I clearly noticed that while the plant is still in germinating mode, rapidly growing that tap root, it adapts much easier and faster than if it has like a 4-inch tap with roots 'branching' out already.
Hot Diggity Sog
Well-Known Member
I replaced the perlite with hydroton and placed an air stone in it. The net pots are now sitting on top of that and the tap roots can be submerged in water. I'm hoping in just another day or two I can begin moving the seedlings into the main apparatus. All but 2 or 3 seeds are germinated and up.
