11' X 13' CMH/LED Lighting Questions

So I have an 11' X 13' area within a 11' X 15' room that's currently lit with 5600W of air cooled HPS. 2 rows of (3) 600's and one row of (2) 1000's. It needs to go, it's a dying technology IMO. I'm having trouble designing a proper lighting scheme with CMH's and LED. LED is not a must to me but I'd like to involve it somehow. LED's if used would be 3590 COB's run at 1050ma and I can get them customized in any array needed. Want to go with Phantom Kits or Cycloptic Greenbeams for the CMH 315's (half 3100 and half 4200, totally open to input on that). Willing to go up to 6000W or just over of lights. Hopefully 10-14 CMH's or up to 18 if it were just CMH (I account for 315's actually using more like 340W).

-Some additional info on the room, 16000 BTU AC, Quest 105 Dual Dehuey, Drain to Waste setup, RO, Canna Full Line + Cali Magic w/Epsom and Silica as needed, finish in 2 Gal Smart Pots, Room can allow for 6" air cooling between lights (phantom hoods allow for it but I'd like to avoid if possible), Orca Walls, room is sealed and runs CO2 at 1000-1100 at peak, run between 42 and 49 each go around, always multiple strains so height adjustment within banks of lights is optimal.

I'm open to any input. So far the best I can come up with is 4 rows of (3) 315's. With 9 LED units, each running 250W of 3590's spaced 3 per row, 3 rows, running in between the 4 rows of 315's. I'm literally stumped on this due to the awkward lighting pattern of 315's... Willing to incorporate some of the existing HPS if it makes sense.

Thank you to anyone willing to help and took the time to read!

Forgot to mention room is setup to allow for 240V service through a MLC 8 outlet controller that's wired to a 50A service. Room also has 5 dedicated standard lines within not including the ones for AC, Dehuey/Enviro controller.

OG or luxor hoods , soon to be released sunplix cmh ballasts to run allstart 860s(or you could throw for hortilux platin6ms that run the allstart great.
You're basically doing the same thing you would with 315s but you will need less fixtures.

The 860w CMH's look interesting, but isn't the problem with LED's still the penetration depth? I would suggest 860's over 315's for the penetration depth also, unless your intention is strictly to SOG?

what is he actual grow area. you should shoot for 50w/SF for grow areas. veg and Bloom. 8-cxb3590's with an HLG-185H-C700B effectively covers a 3x3 space for veg, and 8-cxb3590's with an HLG-185H-C1400B cove3rs the same area for bloom, providing a PPFD of over 750. How large is your veg room and your bloom room? LED get just as much light pernetration as traditional lights. I ahve grown both HPS and LEDs. LED's much less heat to remove. You have heat but just heat from light lumens mostly, not heat from bulbs. I would chedck out Growmau3 videos on youtube as well as Greengeenes and realstyles for advice on space. peace

VegasWinner said:

what is he actual grow area. you should shoot for 50w/SF for grow areas. veg and Bloom. 8-cxb3590's with an HLG-185H-C700B effectively covers a 3x3 space for veg, and 8-cxb3590's with an HLG-185H-C1400B cove3rs the same area for bloom, providing a PPFD of over 750. How large is your veg room and your bloom room? LED get just as much light pernetration as traditional lights. I ahve grown both HPS and LEDs. LED's much less heat to remove. You have heat but just heat from light lumens mostly, not heat from bulbs. I would chedck out Growmau3 videos on youtube as well as Greengeenes and realstyles for advice on space. peace

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Veg is a separate 4' X 8' tent. Bloom is a dedicated 11' X 13' room. Oh I have checked out the Mau5 videos thoroughly which has created my interest in 3590's.

dbkick said:

OG or luxor hoods , soon to be released sunplix cmh ballasts to run allstart 860s(or you could throw for hortilux platin6ms that run the allstart great.
You're basically doing the same thing you would with 315s but you will need less fixtures.

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DB I've seen you over on IC saying good things about the 860's as well. Thing is I want to get rid of air cooled hoods all together. All I have for OG hoods are Magnums and Blockbusters all of which are air cooled. From what I've witnessed on a commercial scale, 3 315's will outrun a single 860 by more than just the percentage in extra watts used which is very close.

What types of #'s do the allstarts do for you? And are you in a single row of lighting or a larger area?

DDub said:

DB I've seen you over on IC saying good things about the 860's as well. Thing is I want to get rid of air cooled hoods all together. All I have for OG hoods are Magnums and Blockbusters all of which are air cooled. From what I've witnessed on a commercial scale, 3 315's will outrun a single 860 by more than just the percentage in extra watts used which is very close.

What types of #'s do the allstarts do for you? And are you in a single row of lighting or a larger area?

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I only got to run the allstart 860 for half a run or so when the phantom DE left me hanging.
I didn't really keep track of numbers and at the time I was only running one on a rail but being familiar with the strain I was running could tell the allstart did a much better job of yield. I've changed out all allstarts and DE for 315s for this goddamn heat, I hate summer.
You say you've run the allstart 860 ? On a premium LFSW digital ballast?

dbkick said:

I only got to run the allstart 860 for half a run or so when the phantom DE left me hanging.
I didn't really keep track of numbers and at the time I was only running one on a rail but being familiar with the strain I was running could tell the allstart did a much better job of yield. I've changed out all allstarts and DE for 315s for this goddamn heat, I hate summer.
You say you've run the allstart 860 ? On a premium LFSW digital ballast?

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Nah I've never run the allstart 860 myself but I have a buddy who use to swear by them, religiously. Mainly for extract production in comparison to standard HPS. He runs multiple warehouses in CA, 1 of which is geared only for extract productions. From what he said they saw 5-8% increases from same strains off same moms in relation to extract production by switching nothing except from HPS to Allstart. Coincidentally enough the switch was due to another lights failure. Swapped it for the AS 860 as its what he had on hand. The ones under that light seemed noticeably different upon cut to him and his partner. They swapped a 1/4 of the room at that point, then the next round the entire room was 860's.

Last time I saw him (March) he had the entire room converted to 315's. It was clear to me upon inspection why he had made the move. Trichs were unbelievable and he said finish was 5-6 days quicker.

I do personally believe 860's would outperform in a 4x4 or 8x4 tent. But anytime you have something 10x10 or more the overlapping from 315's will be a game changer. That's why I asked you how many of them you had going. I hear you on the heat! Changing lighting based on time of year is becoming more and more popular