High CBD, Low Odor Medical Strain

Riffer Madness · Mar 3, 2013

A family member was recently diagnosed with stage 4 brain cancer as well as other types of cancer.

Because of that, I decided to go with a high CBD cancer-fighting strain for my 1st grow. The idea being that *if* they are open to using medical cannabis, id have it ready for them.

They most likely wouldn't have any other way to access organically grown medical cannabis strains and TBH, they probably dont even know that such a thing exists.

Strains such as NL, C99, PPP, Blue Mystic are all reputed to be low odor, but im after something thats more apropriate for cancer.

I know indicas are commonly recommended for cancer, but from what ive read high CBD strains like 'harlequin' might be a better choice than typical indicas like NL.

Does anyone have any information or personal experience that could help me out?

Im also not sure if i should aim for low THC in addition to the high CBD, so that they can consume larger quantities?

Maybe i can harvest late/early to maximize CBD and reduce psychoactivity?

All advice is appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Dan Kone · Mar 3, 2013

There's a problem with your plan. If you're using cannabis to ease the effects of chemo then you don't want to reduce the psychoactivity. High THC is responsible for the psychoactivity, it's also what's going to help with the nausea and increasing apatite. Sounds like what you need is a nice afghanica profile with both high CBD and thc.

If you are looking for a purely high cbd strain that doesn't smell then yes, harlequin is probably right for you. I'd say there are some better phenos of cannatonic out there which are more effective medicinally, but they are also going to smell more. I'd recommend something with both a decent amount of thc AND cbd for the purpose you are needing it for. Platinum OG would be a good one.

Also, c99 is NOT low odor, quite the opposite. It's one of the strongest smelling strains around. I think NL#5 might be a good strain for you, although as a recall it has quite a bit of odor to it as well.

Riffer Madness · Mar 4, 2013

Thank you very much for the advice and recommendations. Helpful chart too.

My plan was to have it on standby for its tumor shrinking ability, rather than as a side effect medicine.

Im talking about eating massive amounts of oil (like the Rick Simpson method), not smoking/vaping. If they were eating as much oil as possible (which im just assuming is the goal), high THC content might be a limiting factor on how much CBD they could consume. They would still end up consuming plenty of THC in the process.

I havent had the chance to speak with him since his diagnosis (he's deaf, and lives far away), and he just started the traditional chemo/radiation treatments so his immune system's too weak to have visitors.

I know that using it in conjunction with chemo/radiation would be ideal, but its too late for that.

-

I was already about to order seeds for my 1st personal/medical grow, but now im having to re-think my strain selection. I cant grow the strains i had already chosen for myself, when something else might help save his life.

I havent done any major reading into its use as a cancer treatment in the past, so this is somewhat new territory. All i really know is that CBD stops the spread and might slow the growth of certain types of cancer without getting him high.

MI Dude · Mar 4, 2013

I've been researching CBD Crew Seeds and they concentrate on producing high CBD strains.
Is using carbon filters not an option for odor control? The only weed I know of that doesn't reek at maturity is hemp.
GOOD LUCK!!

Riffer Madness · Mar 4, 2013

^Thanks. I was looking at CBD crew too. I am going to use a carbon scrubber, but id still like to stick with strains that arent too smelly just to keep it low key.

Like sour d for example. I sampled a gram of that once, and i could smell it through the bag from 5 feet away. Even the bag kept the scent for a few weeks after it was empty. I cant imagine what the whole plant would smell like.

Mrs. Rare Dankness · Mar 4, 2013

Sour Tsunami, Kannatonic,
There is a dispensary here in CO, they are big on the CBD strains and meds. They make a pure CBD oil in vial form for their cancer patients.
I would look at their web-site www.riverrockcolorado.com

Jogro · Mar 4, 2013

I don't want to be a stick in the mud but

-There is zero clinical evidence that CBD, THC or any cannabinoid extract slows or stops brain cancer growth in human beings, and I'd say there are quite a few good reasons to think this is NOT true. At the risk of starting a flame war with the "true believers" if anyone reading this disagrees, feel free to post a link to a published research article showing different. I've looked into this quite extensively and so far as I can tell the science simply isn't there.

So, while this oil probably won't hurt, and may well give various kinds of symptomatic relief (pain, nausea, mood, appetite, etc), its probably not going to actually CURE the cancer.

-Before you go growing weed for your relative, I'd at least confirm that he and his immediate caretakers are open to the possibility of using it. . .they may not be and you well may be wasting your time. I say "immediate caretakers" because its likely that pretty soon your relative isn't going to be able to care for himself (assuming he even is now).

-There is more than one type of brain cancer, so its difficult to generalize, but assuming your relative has glioblastoma multiforme (which is the most common primary brain cancer), typical survival is about 12 months. . .in some cases its only a few months. If he has a different cancer that's spread to his brain (not true "brain cancer") then the prognosis may be a little better. . .though probably not all that much. The point is, the clock is ticking and you may not have a lot of time here to play around.

-Even if you planted your seeds first thing tomorrow morning, you wouldn't expect to have your harvest for ten weeks, and that's assuming absolutely minimal vegetative time. Add in time to acquire seeds, construction time for your grow area, learning curve, need for more vegetative growth to get a decent yield, time for drying curing, and you're probably not going to have an appreciable yield for four months. See above.

-Again, in my opinion, "Rick Simpson oil" is useful only for symptomatic relief of pain, but regardless of my opinion, if you actually want to make any appreciable amount of this oil for treatment purposes you'll need at least a POUND of buds, and several pounds would be better. This is not a "closet" operation.

To do that in one grow, you're going to need a massive grow room, which is a huge expense in time, money, labor, and legal risk. And with due respect, something like that probably is NOT suitable for a first time grower with zero experience.

bluntmassa1 · Mar 4, 2013

I'd go with cbd crew seeds all their strains breed true for a high cbd content and I think its at the mns forum I saw the test grows but they where all a lot stronger then advertised one was like 15% thc 14% CBD. but as for low odor I'm not sure but I did grab a pack of Yummy those are going to get popped soon my mom and girl keep bugging me about it. lol

Jogro · Mar 4, 2013

Mrs. Rare Dankness said:
Sour Tsunami, Kannatonic,
There is a dispensary here in CO, they are big on the CBD strains and meds. They make a pure CBD oil in vial form for their cancer patients.
I would look at their web-site www.riverrockcolorado.com

You raise a good point.

Pretty clearly the original poster isn't in Colorado, or he wouldn't be saying that there is no "other way" this sick relative would have access to medical cannabis. The implication is that he's in a non-medical state.

My suggestion is as follows:

a. Before doing ANYTHING, he should find out if this relative, their immediate caretakers, and/or their physicians are even open to the possibility of using hemp oil. If they're not, he's wasting his time, because if they're not, there is no way the sick relative is actually going to get it on a regular basis. There is no way a terminal cancer patient is going to be actually SMOKING cannabis, and depending on where he's situated, vaporization probably isn't an option either.

b. If (and only if) the caretakers are open to the possibility of using hemp oil, THEN probably the best thing to do is just to fly/drive into Colorado, buy a whole bunch of it (maybe with a written prescription from the patients doctor. . .even if it isn't legally valid in CO, it can't hurt and will convince the dispensary that the request is legit), then smuggle it back into whereever the sick relative is. Contacting the dispensary in question first about obtaining a large supply of this is a good idea.

Yes, crossing state lines with the stuff is illegal, but its probably the best way to actually get medically useful pharmaceutical grade CBD rich oil in a short period of time, and with some care it can be done with very low risk of getting caught.

I'd also *MUCH* rather be in a position where I'm caught with say 50 vials of non-psychoactive medical purpose pharmaceutical hemp oil and documentation of a sick relative with terminal cancer that needs it (ie with a prescription), than be caught with a 20 plant grow-room containing strains that is externally objectively indistinguishable from an illegal street drug grow operation.

The latter thing WILL land you in jail with major cultivation/manufacture charges. The former. . .yes, it would be illegal, but if you can prove that you're really doing it for a sick relative under the care of a real physician, no prosecutor is going to want to bring a case like that in front of a jury. That's a slap on the wrist.

Dan Kone · Mar 4, 2013

Jogro said:
I don't want to be a stick in the mud but

-There is zero clinical evidence that CBD, THC or any cannabinoid extract slows or stops brain cancer growth in human beings, and I'd say there are quite a few good reasons to think this is NOT true. At the risk of starting a flame war with the "true believers" if anyone reading this disagrees, feel free to post a link to a published research article showing different. I've looked into this quite extensively and so far as I can tell the science simply isn't there.

So, while this oil probably won't hurt, and may well give various kinds of symptomatic relief (pain, nausea, mood, appetite, etc), its probably not going to actually CURE the cancer.

-Before you go growing weed for your relative, I'd at least confirm that he and his immediate caretakers are open to the possibility of using it. . .they may not be and you well may be wasting your time. I say "immediate caretakers" because its likely that pretty soon your relative isn't going to be able to care for himself (assuming he even is now).

-There is more than one type of brain cancer, so its difficult to generalize, but assuming your relative has glioblastoma multiforme (which is the most common primary brain cancer), typical survival is about 12 months. . .in some cases its only a few months. If he has a different cancer that's spread to his brain (not true "brain cancer") then the prognosis may be a little better. . .though probably not all that much. The point is, the clock is ticking and you may not have a lot of time here to play around.

-Even if you planted your seeds first thing tomorrow morning, you wouldn't expect to have your harvest for ten weeks, and that's assuming absolutely minimal vegetative time. Add in time to acquire seeds, construction time for your grow area, learning curve, need for more vegetative growth to get a decent yield, time for drying curing, and you're probably not going to have an appreciable yield for four months. See above.

-Again, in my opinion, "Rick Simpson oil" is useful only for symptomatic relief of pain, but regardless of my opinion, if you actually want to make any appreciable amount of this oil for treatment purposes you'll need at least a POUND of buds, and several pounds would be better. This is not a "closet" operation.

To do that in one grow, you're going to need a massive grow room, which is a huge expense in time, money, labor, and legal risk. And with due respect, something like that probably is NOT suitable for a first time grower with zero experience.

I have to agree with all of this.

Riffer Madness · Mar 4, 2013

Thanks for all the suggestions and interest in the thread everyone. My relative doesnt live in a medical state right now.

Jogro,

He has at least 4 different types of cancer. They caught it really late. I cant remember the specifics. There have been studies done on brain and breast cancer types that have had repeatable positive results. Maybe they were conducted improperly. I donno, but it cant hurt to switch strains just incase he wants it. Worst case scenario, he doesnt want it and i end up having a bunch of strange herb.

Im LST'ing/FIMming 6-8 feminized plants and veging them extra long. foxfarm ocean forest or happy frog, extra mycorrhiza, top dressing with my own compost, aerated compost teas w/unsulphured molasses, CO2, 10,000 lumens per sq/foot, mylar skirts and under canopy lighting, side lighting, etc.

Im expecting at least 1 Oz per plant dried/manicured, and i wouldnt even be manicuring the buds if i was just going to make it all into oil (most journals ive read through exceed 1 Oz final weight per plant even under not-so-ideal conditions). I was gonna do a seperate extraction on the leaves too just for the heck of it.

I also wasnt planning on using Rick Simpson's particular method of extraction, because of the naptha (just kinda using him to get my point across, since people associate him with using oral cannabis extract as a cancer treatment). Id just do a simple extraction well below decarbox temps (so as to avoid causing too many changes to the natural cannabinoid profile) using something nontoxic like olive oil.

If the most promising high CBD strain turns out to be a very low yielder, id just compromise and go with something else high CBD with a more reasonable yield.

See, this is just a last minuet change to a mmj grow already about to happen anyway. I was gonna do Nirvana NL and PPP, with some excellent mystery kush bagseed as backup incase my seeds got damaged in transit or something.

Its just my reason for growing, and the strain that are changing. This will be my 1st grow, but i watched a friend's progress in person. He got a decent yield of weak bud off fewer plants.

And you never know. If he did decide to use it and liked it, his wife might want to grow it for him. They have plenty of space.

Apologies for the excessive use of (parenthesis). Thats just how i roll :bigjoint:

Natural Gas · Mar 5, 2013

I do connoisseur (grow to order) indoor cultivation for a select group (some stoners; some patients) in a non-MMJ state...The several folks I do med grows for prefer Juanita la Lagrimosa. It is the highest CBD I know of and seems to be a good choice for the edible crowd...It does produce a cerebral (euphoric) high for me when vaped. Here is a link: http://original-ssc.com/reggae-seeds-juanita-la-lagrimosa.html ...It is forgiving and an easy grow...Best of luck

st0wandgrow · Mar 5, 2013

There is a RIU member that goes by the name of Grow Goddess. She has helped many people with cancer, and has some amazing success stories using her RSO. I would shoot her a private message and I'm sure she would be more than willing to get you started on the right track with strains and her method of making RSO.

Best of luck to you!

Jogro · Mar 5, 2013

Riffer Madness said:
He has at least 4 different types of cancer. They caught it really late. I cant remember the specifics.

Its implausible that he really has four DIFFERENT types of cancer. More likely he has one TYPE of cancer (eg colon) that has spread to four different sites (eg colon, liver, brain, lung).

There have been studies done on brain and breast cancer types that have had repeatable positive results. Maybe they were conducted improperly.

Again, I don't want to be a wise-ass here, but if you really believe this to be true, please cite one.

I haven't seen any clinical studies in human beings with cancer showing survival benefit with cannabinoid therapy (let alone widely metastatic cancer).

Worst case scenario, he doesnt want it and i end up having a bunch of strange herb.

That's not even close to the "worst case scenario". Hint . . .it involves a lengthy prison term on your part.

See, this is just a last minuet change to a mmj grow already about to happen anyway

So now at least you're being honest about what's going on.

Best of luck with the grow.

st0wandgrow · Mar 5, 2013

Jogro said:
Its implausible that he really has four DIFFERENT types of cancer. More likely he has one TYPE of cancer (eg colon) that has spread to four different sites (eg colon, liver, brain, lung).

Again, I don't want to be a wise-ass here, but if you really believe this to be true, please cite one.

I haven't seen any clinical studies in human beings with cancer showing survival benefit with cannabinoid therapy (let alone widely metastatic cancer).

That's not even close to the "worst case scenario". Hint . . .it involves a lengthy prison term on your part.

So now at least you're being honest about what's going on.

Best of luck with the grow.

"Again, I don't want to be a wise-ass here, but if you really believe this to be true, please cite one."

Jogro, that's the problem with a schedule 1 drug.... you won't find many peer-reviewed, scientific studies of it. On top of that the pharmaceutical companies sure as hell won't fund any research in to it without the ability to monetarily capitalize on it.

There are plenty of examples from individuals to cite. All you need to do is use google.

Bad Karma · Mar 6, 2013

Riffer, I'm sorry to hear about your family member's illness, I wish him the best.
I'm also sorry that you have to suffer through Jorgo's asinine and arrogant comments while you try to do research to benefit said family member.
Good luck.

Dan Kone · Mar 6, 2013

Bad Karma said:
Riffer, I'm sorry to hear about your family member's illness, I wish him the best.
I'm also sorry that you have to suffer through Jorgo's asinine and arrogant comments while you try to do research to benefit said family member.
Good luck.

He's not being an ass. He's telling the truth. Sometimes the truth isn't what we want to hear.

Figong · Mar 6, 2013

This may open up a can of worms/argument.. but I feel this fits. http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/pdq/cam/cannabis/healthprofessional/page4 - CBDs & Cannabinoids vs tumor growth / cancer types & locations ... Now, I know the first argument is going to be "This test wasn't done in humans so it doesn't count" .. to which I will post my rebuttal for now, and that is: "If it doesn't count for this, why do you blindly trust it for everything else from soaps and shampoos to extremely toxic/fatal cleaning chemicals?"

Bad Karma · Mar 6, 2013

Dan Kone said:
He's not being an ass. He's telling the truth. Sometimes the truth isn't what we want to hear.

If he was just pointing out the hard truths of the situation, that would be understandable, and accepted.
Yet when Riffer said that his ill family member had 4 different types of cancer, Jogro corrected him, calling it implausible.
Is that telling the truth, or, telling somebody that they don't know what they're talking about?
My grandfather died from a medley of 3 different cancers, so just because something isn't an everyday occurrence, doesn't mean that it won't happen.
Also, Jogro gave an example of colon cancer spreading to the brain, wtf?
That's like saying you have to get your teeth drilled to take care of an ingrown toenail, one does not beget the other.
If Jogro actually knew what he was talking about, he wouldn't have made such a statement.
There is a difference between being a nay saying know it all and telling the truth.

Dan Kone · Mar 6, 2013

Bad Karma said:
If he was just pointing out the hard truths of the situation, that would be understandable, and accepted.
Yet when Riffer said that his ill family member had 4 different types of cancer, Jogro corrected him, calling it implausible.

Which is true. That's extremely unlikely.

Is that telling the truth, or, telling somebody that they don't know what they're talking about?

Those things are not mutually exclusive.

Also, Jogro gave an example of colon cancer spreading to the brain, wtf?

And?

That's like saying you have to get your teeth drilled to take care of an ingrown toenail, one does not beget the other.

No it's not. It's more like getting poison oak on your leg and then having it spread to your arm. It happens. When it shows up on your arm, that doesn't mean it's a new illness, just an existing illness that spread.

If Jogro actually knew what he was talking about, he wouldn't have made such a statement.
There is a difference between being a nay saying know it all and telling the truth.

Think what you like, but he's technically correct.

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