Tags High Efficiency Lighting Garden

Okay now that all the kinks and bugs have been worked out lets try round 2. This will be my second run on a larger scale with LED's(Apache Tech) and I will also be running a Indagro induction w/pontoon for the first time. The will also be a few 600w hps that are already in progress. For those who have followed me along in the past this is redundant, but I will be doing video and pic updates regularly. This will be a super fun grow and I am excited to get the rooms going full scale finally.

So here are the setups

Main flower room: All in flower as of today.
-(3) 600w hps growing Big Lemon Skunks(already at week day26)
-(8.) Apache AT120 R2's growing 4x8 of AceOfSpades and 4x4 of Jillybean(all just flipped)

The little room:
All Big Lemon Skunks...half under the Inda gro, and half under the Apache's...vegging under just the indagrow till/unless more light is needed.
-(1) Indagro induction 420 w/pontoon
-(3-4) Apache AT120 (undecided spectrums)

Here is #1 and should get everyone up to date and on track

[video=youtube;gDEfoDS3-j4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDEfoDS3-j4&feature=youtu.be[/video]

Is the other thread done now?

edit:

nm saw your other post.

Im subbed for this ride. pass the popcorn and the bong.

Can you take pix of your AoS? I dont click youtube vids coz im a paranoid fuck. My next grow will be AoS y'see.

Hey Tags, what do you think apache is going to do with those r2's when you give them back? Maybe sell them at a discount? Let me know man If there discounted enough I may be able to buy one.

You know I'm subbed up. Should be one hell of a ride. Any goals set for this run?

Hiya Tags! Nice looking garden mate. Couple things come to mind as I watch the video.

I see in the video for your flowering side you put in 8 of the ApacheTech panels over the 3 gal pots compared to the HPS side having the 5 gal fabric pots and no light partition between the HPS/LED side. Do you think that the HPS might contribute to the AT side without the partition? Also are you planning on going to the 5 gal pots later on the AT side? What kind of AC are you running?

Thanks for the update and pulling up a seat!

SnotBoogie said:

Can you take pix of your AoS? I dont click youtube vids coz im a paranoid fuck. My next grow will be AoS y'see.

Click to expand...

Here is what it looks lie when fininshed (from a buddy who runs coco with canna, same cut)

and they are from the video day0

dufiwon said:

Hey Tags, what do you think apache is going to do with those r2's when you give them back? Maybe sell them at a discount? Let me know man If there discounted enough I may be able to buy one.

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure they are his personal ones. They are used for sure but work great.

hyroot said:

Is the other thread done now?

edit:

nm saw your other post.

Im subbed for this ride. pass the popcorn and the bong.

Click to expand...

puffenuff said:

You know I'm subbed up. Should be one hell of a ride. Any goals set for this run?

Click to expand...

Some usual suspects...glad you guys are here.

I do have rough goal for the Apache side. AOS 1+oz/plant and the jilly's 2oz+/plant. I had good success in the past with a similar setup. Those goal will make my a happy camper but I'll take more if they will do it.
I'm also shooting for bigger buds with limited larf. In the BBS run, I had more little shit then good usable pretty much. But there were a lot of pest/health issues contributing to that.

chazbolin said:

Hiya Tags! Nice looking garden mate. Couple things come to mind as I watch the video.

I see in the video for your flowering side you put in 8 of the ApacheTech panels over the 3 gal pots compared to the HPS side having the 5 gal fabric pots and no light partition between the HPS/LED side. Do you think that the HPS might contribute to the AT side without the partition? Also are you planning on going to the 5 gal pots later on the AT side? What kind of AC are you running?
Thanks for the update and pulling up a seat!

Click to expand...

The AOS are in 2g fabrics the jilly's are in 3g regulars and the Big lemon under the HPS are in 3g fabrics. No 5g's in use...I thought about transplanting the jilly's but flipped them yesterday too, in the 3g.
I did a pure apache run last time and this time I need to fill my room so I use the hps. The big room is not a side by side or even a comparison grow in there so I will not be putting up any partitions. I might build tables and raise the LED side some, but that would be it. It's a grow room simple as that... just happens to be half LED's and the other half hps.
The hps were vegged for 2 months, 70% of that time in the 3g's. While the LED side(AOS and jilly's) only 3 weeks, in just 5" pots so they are very different styles of growing.

The little room on the other hand will have a light barrier probably come flower. I want to keep the apache side from getting the pontoon's effects.

No AC. Just a 10" pulling out, creating negative pressure. Temps are 74-83 with all the lights going.

Cool setup. Last time your nugs looked a little small after all was said and done. Hopefully this grows does better.


Subbed. Love the video updates

The small room is doing great. Into 1g pots yesterday and the growth keeps going. All the tops are developing perfectly.


And these are of the big lemons under hps day 25.

So after a lot of talk about why buy an Apache over an A51... or any other company for that matter...I have gotten some info out of apache that should make things clear.

Apache has an AT120 frame/platform and they put their new chip in it. They have it pulling 196w...so driving about 1.5w/chip. They call it a variable chip so I don't know what the max capability is. I assume it wont get ran much more than this since it is probably most efficient around this.

Pulling 196w with the new chips in the AT120 housing, the output is...
1920umol @12"
1208umol @18"
786umol @24"
358umol @36"

Apache has been lazy IMO by sitting around letting people catch up. Now that they realize they actually need new and better units/tech to be the best, they have gotten things in gear. Canceling trips and other things so that the new products will be ready as fast as possible. Originally just the new bigger models were coming with the old chips. But now the new chips are a must and will be released all together in the new models. This might add a week or 2 to the release but well worth it.

The new 480 platform with the old chips was testing 1040umol@24"...imaging what the new chips will do to that!

Like Aug/Sep they will be releasing. on their Facebook page all they post is using newspaper for pots.

Will they up their warrany ever. At least 3 years or.....?

Sounds good. Around then I may be able to afford a couple of them. Maybe more.

tags420 said:

So after a lot of talk about why buy an Apache over an A51... or any other company for that matter...I have gotten some info out of apache that should make things clear.

Apache has an AT120 frame/platform and they put their new chip in it. They have it pulling 196w...so driving about 1.5w/chip. They call it a variable chip so I don't know what the max capability is. I assume it wont get ran much more than this since it is probably most efficient around this.

Pulling 196w with the new chips in the AT120 housing, the output is...
1920umol @12"
1208umol @18"
786umol @24"
358umol @36"

Apache has been lazy IMO by sitting around letting people catch up. Now that they realize they actually need new and better units/tech to be the best, they have gotten things in gear. Canceling trips and other things so that the new products will be ready as fast as possible. Originally just the new bigger models were coming with the old chips. But now the new chips are a must and will be released all together in the new models. This might add a week or 2 to the release but well worth it.

The new 480 platform with the old chips was testing 1040umol@24"...imaging what the new chips will do to that!

Click to expand...

Soooooo STOKED!!! It's about time a fire got lit under their asses. Can't wait for the new gear.

puffenuff said:

Soooooo STOKED!!! It's about time a fire got lit under their asses. Can't wait for the new gear.

Click to expand...

Seriously. Now I am willing to wait for the big unit.

He is saying 4-5weeks. So late/end of july. I could have one to show off sooner.

Hey Tags!
Wonderful new info! If it isn`t too big of a hussle, could you ask them next time you see them if they are getting anywhere with new shipping lanes to Europe ( Spain ) ?

I am really stoked and interested in a 480 and the new T-8 tubes!

Would not be to far fetch and say that this company should start thinking about running a bigger operation. With the type of quality for $ they are delivering, they could easily be a leading manufacturer / wholesale company.
..even if this is not their gameplan of course.

Some quick updates

The little room
I am really liking the growth under the indagro. Fast and full. Hopefully it flowers as good as it is vegging these.

5days ago...then today


This will get flipped quicker than we planned for sure.


The big room I put my light mover up for the middle hps. And I rearrange the plants from tall on left to shorter on right to allow better coverage of each plant...nobody babies in dark corners.


I am also employing a daily rotation system for the AOS. I move each row down and the end row goes back to the beginning flipped around. This should really even out the whole crop so that every plant gets time directly under a unit and indirect in the cross over space. And the hps side will get rotated all the way to the back wall too. My idea is that there will be no plants or areas doing better than the others. I will explain this better in the next video. Everything is so healthy this is going to be a great run.


This heat is crazy. It was 103 the other day...but my big room only got to 92* which isn't that bad considering no AC just a 10" exhaust fan. Stayed at around 86* most of the day.
The little room doesn't even notice the heat outside.

tags420 said:

So after a lot of talk about why buy an Apache over an A51... or any other company for that matter...I have gotten some info out of apache that should make things clear.

Apache has an AT120 frame/platform and they put their new chip in it. They have it pulling 196w...so driving about 1.5w/chip. They call it a variable chip so I don't know what the max capability is. I assume it wont get ran much more than this since it is probably most efficient around this.

Pulling 196w with the new chips in the AT120 housing, the output is...
1920umol @12"
1208umol @18"
786umol @24"
358umol @36"

Apache has been lazy IMO by sitting around letting people catch up. Now that they realize they actually need new and better units/tech to be the best, they have gotten things in gear. Canceling trips and other things so that the new products will be ready as fast as possible. Originally just the new bigger models were coming with the old chips. But now the new chips are a must and will be released all together in the new models. This might add a week or 2 to the release but well worth it.

The new 480 platform with the old chips was testing 1040umol@24"...imaging what the new chips will do to that!

Click to expand...

interesting.. post some pics of the chip whenever they come in, and we'll see what they have running..

I always have to wonder, decreasing there beam angle would surly net move coverage area, without to much loss in light, for the fact you can bring the unit down more.. also would like a chart layout of intensity, as is that reading at the edge of the canopy or middle of the canopy.

pepperdust said:

interesting.. post some pics of the chip whenever they come in, and we'll see what they have running..
I always have to wonder, decreasing there beam angle would surly net move coverage area, without to much loss in light, for the fact you can bring the unit down more.. also would like a chart layout of intensity, as is that reading at the edge of the canopy or middle of the canopy.

Click to expand...

I have already talked to them about replacing some of my units lenses with the 50* but I am just going to wait for the new gear. They are going to 28* for the new models with will really help the true coverage but still keep a good focus.

And it is the output number from the middle at each each height. So peak output basically. I am begging for a umol meter with the new unit to show what is gong on so hopefully that will happen.
I get what you want to see but your going to have to wait till I can do it myself with my tester or the official drop so someone like growershouse does one.

Hey Tags! Gardens looking good bro!

If you want a good quantum meter you can get them online for less than $200 @ http://www.specmeters.com/brands/lightscout/foot-candle-meter/

As I've said before though, I'm not relying on the intensity levels alone from a quantum meter. While they do give you a uMole (intensity) reading and they are not photopically corrected for human vision they still measure the entire area equally between 400-700nm. If that uMole reading is a narrow band wavelength outside of the plants net action absorption spectra you'll still have a high uMole reading but it will mean very little to your plants photosynthetic absorption values. A good example of that can be seen by taking a quantum meter and reading a low pressure sodium lamp. That lamp emits a narrow spectrum D Band 589nm peak wavelength. As you find these lamps mostly on highways where the CRI is not as important as the high lumens:watt ratios the same can be said of how that lamp being read on a quantum meter would apply to interpreting a uMole reading. The quantum meter will peg @ 2K uMoles @ 36" from the sensor. But the meter will be reading all 589 which if you're ever had nothing but time on your hands and attempted to flower under an LPS would convince you there is nothing beneficial about this lamp for flowering. Not that I would know of course...

Until such time that there is a PAR/Lumen or better yet 3 part Watt/Region standard that all manufacturers rate grow lamps in I look at the relative intensities of the Spectral Distribution Graphs first. After that I look at plant response to tell me if we're firing on all cylinders. If someone is touting the virtue of their lamps based on uMole readings and not plant response I know they are not taking into consideration the specific spectral weights the lamp emits when publishing those intensities in an effort to make their product look better than the competition and that is precisely what this industry needs to get away from.

^^^
Thanks man , they are loving life fore sure.

I know about par and it's reading. Yes I can through all yellow diodes in and get a high reading...but what led lights out on the market are that far off in spectral output that a par meter would be useless...none! I have used your argument before when explaining the two measurement so that people can see the one way that a par meter could be slightly wrong. But No lights are that off..specially not my apaches. The quantum par meter is the best measurement to tell the intensity. Being that mine(and lots of others) have a growing geared spectrum, the reading is even more valuable.

I have notice you put down the quantum meter before and I just don't agree. It is the best most accurate way of measuring the amount of light being emitted. The one thing you say is that the spectrum could make it inaccurate but like I said no light is that off and if it is, i would never be on my want list. PAR would make hps look worse...not led's or high other efficiency spectrum lights.
If I had a hps and an LED with the same wattage...led=1900umol and hps=1900umol...which would you choose...LED all day cause we know the spectrum is better and the light being read by the par meter is coming from more valuable areas.

Par was never said to show how good a lights spectrum is. It shows the power and intensity better anything...which is what every wants to know when comparing to the big hps's.

You're entitled to your opinion on the relative value of a uMole reading that falls anywhere inside the 400-700nm spectrums but I am not incorrect. Perhaps misunderstood. I'm not stating the spectum are as you stated 'inaccurate' at all. I'm just stating that the PAR reading does not indicate what spectrum's within 400-700nm the meter that it is reading. You actually make my point yourself when you ask me to choose an LED over an HPS that both emitted a 1900 uMole PFF. Well I would not choose the LED because you don't tell me what spectrums it's emitting. It may be 1900 uMoles but @ relatively useless 550nm. I would choose the LED if it was emitting in the photosynthetic net action absorption areas and for that you need the spectral distribution graph. By the time you've made the decision to buy the lights and you have them installed the plants are underneath them it is at that point that I will take plant response over a comparative uMole reading to see if their needs are being met.