Full LED closet grow of Top44

Hey everyone!
I'm starting this journal a bit before i even have my plants germing, but it wont be long! Just to introduce the project, it's a Top44 closet grow, using a 90w UFO high power red/blue mixed LED. I know this seems to be a popular topic at the moment, yet not many journals done on them! I WILL be using the LED all the way through flowering, using a red spectrum heat bulb to make the plant switch from veg to flower if the LEDs cant do it alone, but that part will be played by ear!

Leave your comments and suggestions at will! I will be checking in regularly, and help is appreciated!

Cheers!

Okay, so today I got my seeds from Nirvana! That literally only took 5 days! Friggin amazing!

Anyhoo, i have them germinating right now, and hopefully in a couple days ill have some nice little seedlings!

My set-up:
- 4'x2'x6' closet
- 90w UFO LED red/blue
- 2 x 42w CFL (just because i have them and additional light cant hurt!
- I have the whole "ONA in a Bucket with CPU fan" thing for odor control
- Also a 3' tower fan in the closet
- No vents, just gonna open the door a couple times a day.

I will be growing in soil, and I'm growing from seed, so I'm going to just plant 5 of them, save the others, and hopefully get to pick a good mother from this first grow.

Again, I welcome advice, questions, anything!

Peace

So a little about why I chose Top44 despite all the bad sh*t being said about it... basically, i figure I'm enough of a lightweight, that even commercial quality weed gets me high, so why not grow a plant that gets a really high yield, of B-grade ganja, that finishes flowering in just 6 weeks!

Top44 is also one of the easiest plants to grow... literally plant it, give it some light and some water, and easy as that... a 5 year old could do it! (which is good because i've never kept a plant alive in my life...)

I currently have 5 seeds germinated (all within 24 hours of receiving them, go Nirvana!) and potted, waiting for them to sprout, and starting on two 23w CFLs until i get my UFO in and the LED experiment can begin!

Quick update, it's like what? 1/4 to 4 am? lol im a little tipsy, just got in from the clubs, with the pleasant surprise of finding two of my plants srpouted! once all are up i'll start taking pics!

Okay! so I'm posting pics of the seedlings today, out of the 5 seeds, so far three are fully up and one of the remaining two JUST started pushing the dirt up and showing a little stem... The fifth, who knows, we shall see! The three that came up right away are growing fast though, which is nice, they have more than doubled in height just while i was at work! I have a fan blowing on them and have them under 24hr cfl lighting (still havent received the UFO).

So on that note, my first question for the pros, if any read my journal, haha: Other than energy savings, whats the difference, in terms of growth rate, of going 18ON/6OFF or just 24 ON? Do the vegging plants need that 6 hrs darkness for rest or what?

Here are the first pics. No pics of the setup, as quite frankly it's laughable... in the process of finishing the set-up, but i just couldnt wait to plant the seeds, haha
Pictures will be posted every week, on sunday nights, from now until the end of the harvest. Pictures may be posted spontaneously on top of said frequency!

Hey man nice job, I will be watching your grow for sure, Ive been wanting to watch a full LED grow.
I do have a couple questions if you dont mind.
What brand soil do you use? Did you get it from a local store? or a specialty hydro shop?
Do you have a ph tester?
And what are the temps?
Good luck and ask any questions you may have. rep+

Okay, i'm gonna get a lot of shit for this, but I could care less about my pH... If things go awry, then I'll know why but to be honest, water is water, and I'm sure the soils around the world where weed grows doesnt have the same pH. Anyhoo, that was a rant... okay, temps are always between 70-75 degrees, and i use Premium Nature Mix soil, from Zellers (canada thing...)

Thanks for looking in!

deezeedeez said:

Okay, i'm gonna get a lot of shit for this, but I could care less about my pH... If things go awry, then I'll know why but to be honest, water is water, and I'm sure the soils around the world where weed grows doesnt have the same pH. Anyhoo, that was a rant... okay, temps are always between 70-75 degrees, and i use Premium Nature Mix soil, from Zellers (canada thing...)

Thanks for looking in!

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you can count me in for watching this. ive always wondered if these things worked or if they were pieces of crap.

good luck
peace

Those are some stretchy babies. You'll need to correct that by strengthening them with a fan, putting the light closer,and even possibly burying them to right under their leaves as well. I know you say you don't care about your ph, but you really should.Good luck.

Stoney McFried said:

Those are some stretchy babies. You'll need to correct that by strengthening them with a fan, putting the light closer,and even possibly burying them to right under their leaves as well. I know you say you don't care about your ph, but you really should.Good luck.

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Thanks Stoney, I actually just posted a thread in another top 44 grow about the stretching, cause i found it odd... i have a fan on but it looks like a hurricane for those little babies... i lowered the light, and keep the fan on about 12 hours per day!

Keep the advice coming, and if someone wants to change my mind about pH, or even just tell me how far tap water is from ideal? (Water should be 7, assuming it's pure, but tap water that sits uncovered for a couple days, how does it compare pH wise?)

Basically, I've worked in agriculture a great deal in the past, growing mushrooms actually, and while the pH and nutrient levels of our compost did have to be monitered and controlled, it was strictly to ensure the best production, but those mushrooms would have grown regardless in the environment we provided.

Any info would be great! Aside from fungi, i have no growing experience!

Hey buddy im doing the same thing but with erly girl in my closet . ive got 2 in there now and going to ad a 3rd one with the same light set up . i did make a post about what i was doing

ill also keep an eye on this one as well as the other guy . id like to know if it works with out careing about your ph lev . i do care about mine as this is rare around here to get erly girl

Have a good one m8 and good luck

My tap water is horrible.Absolute poison. I've been catching rain water.It has a ph of 7.0.Yours may vary if you have problems with acid rain in your area, but for the most part, I'm sold on rainwater.

deezeedeez said:

Thanks Stoney, I actually just posted a thread in another top 44 grow about the stretching, cause i found it odd... i have a fan on but it looks like a hurricane for those little babies... i lowered the light, and keep the fan on about 12 hours per day!

Keep the advice coming, and if someone wants to change my mind about pH, or even just tell me how far tap water is from ideal? (Water should be 7, assuming it's pure, but tap water that sits uncovered for a couple days, how does it compare pH wise?)

Basically, I've worked in agriculture a great deal in the past, growing mushrooms actually, and while the pH and nutrient levels of our compost did have to be monitered and controlled, it was strictly to ensure the best production, but those mushrooms would have grown regardless in the environment we provided.

Any info would be great! Aside from fungi, i have no growing experience!

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So I take it seedlings really aren't that picky, considering these little guys won't slow down at all? I mean i dont want to get a pH tester if I dont have to, obviosuly, but i dont want to wait till it's too late either! If I can play it by ear and save the plants easily enough in the occasion that things did go wrong, that would be ideal!

Well, really, what you're trying to do when you're growing is minimize stress,and get the best yield you can. Ph problems can lock out nutes,causing your plant to become weak and stunted,and affecting your yield. Enough stress can make a plant go hermie, and you don't want it growing nuts,because if you don't catch it, it will pollinate itself and you will not have sinsemillia, or seedless, pot.Ph and tds meters are cheap...I got mine off of ebay,for about 40 bucks for the pair, and that includes shipping.

deezeedeez said:

So I take it seedlings really aren't that picky, considering these little guys won't slow down at all? I mean i dont want to get a pH tester if I dont have to, obviosuly, but i dont want to wait till it's too late either! If I can play it by ear and save the plants easily enough in the occasion that things did go wrong, that would be ideal!

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im really interested in this grow i to have been wanting to grow under led lights.
good luck bro
but to be a stickler if your treating this as an experiment, you should be giving the plants optimum conditions so that it can be repeatable results.
you dont have to go spend a shit load on a test kit just get a liquid indicator type. itll work just fine. for about ten bucks.
the reason that ph is important. usually tap water should be at a ph neutral (7.0) or at least it is when it leaves the pumping plant. sedament and other things inside city or your house piping. could elavate or negatively effect ph.
and remember that your going to be feeding at some point. which nutes can sometimes have a varying effect on ph.

Stoney McFried said:

Well, really, what you're trying to do when you're growing is minimize stress,and get the best yield you can. Ph problems can lock out nutes,causing your plant to become weak and stunted,and affecting your yield. Enough stress can make a plant go hermie, and you don't want it growing nuts,because if you don't catch it, it will pollinate itself and you will not have sinsemillia, or seedless, pot.Ph and tds meters are cheap...I got mine off of ebay,for about 40 bucks for the pair, and that includes shipping.

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Wow ok ill also have to look into that . thanks for the tip .

if i may ask another question in the mix here . now you recomend testing your ph and such . well if your ph is high what is the cheapest brand of ph stuff you can get that will be ok to work with the plants . to be honest ive not use any in my grows and its turned out great .

Thanks m8

I needed PH down and rather than overpay and/or drive to my local hydro shop, I made it myself. Found some good info on RIU and it was backed up by articles I read on other sites. The commercial PH down is basically pure sulfuric acid mixed with water. Upwards of $15 - $20 a bottle.

Go to a auto supply store...buy a quart of pure battery acid (liquid sulfuric acid) for $7. Buy a gallon of distilled water and pour out a cup. Mix in 1 cup of sulfuric acid and there ya go...instant PH down. With the unused acid you should have a very long supply. I can take a gallon of water with a PH of 7 down to a 6 with only about a teaspoon...so correct accordingly...it won't take you long to figure out how much to use.

Ph up is just as easy.

Good Luck

Yessir.. those look stretched to me, but I don't think it's anywhere near too late for this to be a GREAT grow. Now.. I'm no expert yet, but at 19 days old, my Top44 isn't 6" tall yet. It is a REALLY healthy plant, too. I made a couple of newbie blunders with it already (that's why I went w/ it!) on a transplant and let it dry a bit too much. I also stunted both of mine a bit by having them too close to the light for a bit.

SO.. here's my advice:
1. Fill your pots up to nearly the rim to bury those stems a little bit. Roots will grow out of it. Yours and mine likely came from the same lineage (Nirvana also!), so they should grow nearly the same. What dirt do you have, by the way?
2. Get a SMALL thermometer and put it IN the planter with the plant. You need to know how hot the plant is, more than anything else.
3. Use CD cases or something to get your plants as close to the CFL's as possible. As a frame of reference, my plants did not burn or even singe a little bit when the leaves were about 2 inches from my CFL's. Make sure they're only close enough to get them to about 80-85 degrees. They will slow down that vertical growth FAST.

A tip on the Top44, too.. they smell during veg. If you are vegging your plants at all, don't be surprised if you smell these guys early. Mine reeks, at this point.

Regarding pH, tap water varies, with regards to "ideal". Ideal is 6.5. My tapwater is about 7.4, so I began adding a touch of vinegar to my water jug when I fill it. Also.. spring water turned my plants yellow, so I decided to just use the water from my tap, plus vinegar, plus a drip of molasses. The day I changed my ph was the day my plants actually started growing again after their stunting from light. Bottom line.. you need to measure your ph.

Also.. like "water is not water", "soil is not soil". Some soils will burn the hell out of these plants.. even kill them. I used Miracle Grow Organic, which has been FABULOUS. It is full of big chunks of shit, too.. so that my soil stays aerated. If your soil is too tightly packed, your roots can have a hard time spreading or getting enough oxygen.

Yes, these plants can grow anywhere.. depending on strain. Ruderalis strains (lowryder, etc.) even grow in Nunavut outdoors!! Top44 is VERY hardy and yes, will rebound from rookie mistakes. Understand that the more you optimize your grow, the more you learn, the better strains you can manage over time.

Also.. wtf are you doing ordering from NL? Your country has awesome seed banks, eh? Hell.. there's even one in Barrie!

Wow, lots of replies, okay:

Stoney - Thanks man, that's good info to know! Basically, sure the plant will grow, or at least live, but the more bud, the better so error on the side of caution and check that pH! Sweet!

Candylime - Good info! And I mean, I'm no novice to pH in general, and how it is effected, (studying engineering.. lots of chem.. ) lol but its more the effects on the plant that i wasnt aware of, such as nute lock-out, so thats good to know! Also, I'm mostly trying to show that with very little care, good bud can still be produced. I'm not going for optimal, I'm just wanting to grow my own bud, see what it's like, without producing too much heat, (good luck finding AC in old city apartments.. lol) If i f*ck up, well, then I'll know that weed needs to be taken a little more seriously! lol

Loco - Great tip man! I mean I guess it makes sense that diluted H2SO4 woudn't harm a plant, but i never even though of that for lowering my pH, good tip! I'm wondering if citric acid would serve a similar purpose? (I have it powdered in surplus)

ER - Yo! thanks for checking out this thread! All great info, I may try adding more soil, and yeah, my soil is fine, its just on organic perlite/spagnum/compost/humus mix

Oh, for the taller seedlings I put stakes in to help, and have the fan on them 24 hrs... lights are within 6 inches of each plant (still only 4 up). Keep in mind that I'm going to be doing circular LST on them as well, so I'm not worried about height very much, although smaller internodes would be nice!

Some folks use vinegar to lower ph, and baking soda to raise it. Some of the people on here don't recommend it,because there's a lot of salt in baking soda that can build up in the soil,but if you use it judiciously, you'd probably be ok.But right now, I'm collecting rain water...it's been raining on and off since yesterday. If you want to stretch a buck and Lower ph, buy good water or use rain water and mix it with your regular water to bring it closer to what you want.In other words, dilute the bad with the good,lol.
As an aside, I also got a tds meter.(TDS stands for total dissolved solids.)This tells you how hard or soft your water is, basically. My tap water is ph 8.4(!) with 188 ppm....and if you read my water report, you'll see it's contaminated, but that's another story. So basically, I have hard water. For humans, the lower the ppm, the better hydrated you get from the water.I'm sure it's the same principal with plants, but someone correct me if I'm wrong. Now, my rainwater is ph 7.0, and 2 ppm. Since nutes can raise your ph AND your ppm,you want these numbers as close to optimal when you start out as possible, because the more you add in the way of ph adjusters,nutes,etc,the higher your ppm.

D®Fëë£GÖÖd;2273436 said:

Wow ok ill also have to look into that . thanks for the tip .

if i may ask another question in the mix here . now you recomend testing your ph and such . well if your ph is high what is the cheapest brand of ph stuff you can get that will be ok to work with the plants . to be honest ive not use any in my grows and its turned out great .

Thanks m8

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