Winterizing bho

[WarMachine]

yeah if youre winterizing with ISO... its no wonder youre getting very poor results. I thought it needed to be a polar substance.. or is it non polar???? either way, from the reading ive done, ISO sucks for winterizing.

if you were to do it right, youd fall in love. just like I did. especially if you care about your lungs.

It turned out I didn't purge it right,I had tested a different oil batch that's why I thought it passed the lighter test but it didn't the second time around.

ISO is a polar substance just like Everclear, BUT Everclear does a much better job with winterizing. ISO did work as well, it was smooth and when I winterized it, you could see wax/lipids in the coffee filter. Sooo basically I need to repurge it and it should be good to go!

 

[vacpurge]

oh ok. good to know. if winterizing properly, the only complaints should be the lowish yield, and loss of taste.. both of which are minor complaints IMO for a healthier hoot.

ive been wondering regarding the loss of taste and temp of 110F.... would it better do to everything (like vacuuming) at only 50 or 60F, but for 2 or 3x longer in hopes of preserving some taste??

 

[Bublonichronic]

I was wondering if maybe the terps "fall out" of the solvent with the waxes when winterizing..maybe could do a winterization on the waxes and try to recover the terps? But yea - heated viscous oil < frozen surface area

 

[WarMachine]

I would think that would help but i'm not really sure to be honest,Fadedawg needs to log in at least a hour a day lol.

As far as winterizing,I rather have a smaller yield since its all personal lol. Loss of flavor does sadden me though,I like the flavor.

I want to make oil next kind of in a vaporizer type of way. It'd be more sedative but it'd be a true solventless oil.

 

[Fadedawg]

oh ok. good to know. if winterizing properly, the only complaints should be the lowish yield, and loss of taste.. both of which are minor complaints IMO for a healthier hoot.

ive been wondering regarding the loss of taste and temp of 110F.... would it better do to everything (like vacuuming) at only 50 or 60F, but for 2 or 3x longer in hopes of preserving some taste??

The vacuuming is to get rid of the solvent, and once a skin forms, it is hard for the solvent molecules to escape.

At around 115F everything is fluid enough for the bubbles to readily escape under vacuum. We get the best luck retaining monoterpenes, by vacuuming at the lowest effective temperature, for the shortest amount of time possible.

 

[Fadedawg]

I was wondering if maybe the terps "fall out" of the solvent with the waxes when winterizing..maybe could do a winterization on the waxes and try to recover the terps? But yea - heated viscous oil < frozen surface area

The monoterpenes don't fall out with the winterizing, but they may leave when you evaporate off the alcohol from winterizing. Most of the monoterpenes are alcohols, esters, ethers, aldehydes, ketones, or carboxylic acids themselves, with a high vapor pressure.

 

[qwizoking]

Seems I've had to repeat myself NUMEROUS times......winterizing won't harm flavor, your personal methods are doing that

 

[vacpurge]

Seems I've had to repeat myself NUMEROUS times......winterizing won't harm flavor, your personal methods are doing that

how do you do it without losing or changing flavor?

no offence, but I have a VERY hard time believing that. I got one hell of a sensitive tongue and can taste it from a mile away.

so whats the trick? id like to try it. other than vaccuming at low heat for short time... in which case makes it hard to get the everclear out.. it cant be low heat AND short time can it, either got to be one or the other?

 

[qwizoking]

No trick.. I evap without heat... another thing I stress many times a day...

"In organic solvent extraction, aromatic compounds as well as other hydrophobic soluble substances such as wax and pigments are also obtained. The extract is subjected to vacuum processing, which removes the solvent for re-use. Fragrant compounds for woody and fibrous plant materials are often obtained in this matter as are all aromatics from animal sources. The technique can also be used to extract odorants that are too volatile for distillation or easily denatured by heat. The remaining waxy mass is known as a concrete, which is a mixture of essential oil, waxes, resins, and other lipophilic (oil soluble) plant material, since these solvents effectively remove all hydrophobic compounds in the raw material.



Although highly fragrant, concretes are too viscous - even solid - at room temperature to be useful. This is due to the presence of high-molecular-weight, non-fragrant waxes and resins. Another solvent, often ethanol, which only dissolves the fragrant low-molecular weight compounds, must be used to extract the fragrant oil from the concrete. The alcohol is removed by a second distillation, leaving behind the absolute. These extracts from plants such as jasmine and rose, are called absolutes.

Due to the low temperatures in this process, the absolute may be more faithful to the original scent of the raw material,"



As I've attempted to say here and on many other threads... even attempted to explain scientifically why terpenes aren't removed......they just aren't man, this is how its done in the industry..... the waxes and fats removed do have some flavor as I think guzias can tell you. But winterizing will not trap or pull terps.. the evao method you choose will..... I use no heatand yell this in threads till my phone turns blue and no one seems to listen......

 

[vacpurge]

hmmm, interesting. ive tried evapping everclear without heat and it didnt work out well... just got to a point where it sat and did nothing. became immune to the vacuum.

so instead of evapping at 110F for 6 hours. I should try letting it evap at room temp with a fan on it?

then what? im getting that skin after 6 hours at 110F... I can imagine after 24 hours it wouldnt be much better and still requiring a vacuum?

and "the waxes and fats removed do have some flavor as I think guzias can tell you." that right there is considered harming the flavour IMO. but I guess well see how it tastes with very little heat.

do you also evap the butane with very little heat? I put the butane dish floating in hot tap water... does the butane really get hot though? id imagine it stays in the negatives until fully evaporated... and by then, my hot water dish is now very very cold water.

and why the hell are you typing from a phone?!?!?!

 

[qwizoking]

Well I don't use butane, I mean I normally use hexane and haven't used butane in a good while.. but yea I do everything without heat including decarbing for edibles... . And you would be surprised how much of a difference a fan makes but be patient I guess. With a natural evap I expect 24 hours till its smoke able...well the waxes and fats produced are aromatic and fragrant, they do have and contribute slightly to the flavor.. but if you have bud that tastes like pine for example (one of my favorites) the smell is mainly coming from pinene. A terpene, the terpenes all remain. The flavor in my opinion is always improved and more like the bud it came from without the concentrated waxes.....and I'm on a phone cause I don't like computers.......plus I'm at work..... but really computers just freak me out, I don't like technology

 

[vacpurge]

hmm interesting. I think I know that pine taste/smell that you speak of... around here its typically "purple kush" or some sort of kush that has that very very distinct flavor. of course though now every idiot is calling every bud they come across "kush" so you gotta give it the ol smell test, but I know that piney very very strong you speak of. its heavenly. THATS that im trying to preserve. I will try what you said on the next batch.. im excited now thanks

 

[Bublonichronic]

Lol, kushes can have different smells to them, when I grew out afghan Kush landrace seeds the smell ranged from lemon/hashish/pine even had one pheno that smelled like pencil shavings lol

 

[Lysemith, Lowkey]

vacpurge, when you reduce the vapor pressure when you vacuum purge, this will also contribute to a loss of delicate flavonoids unless it is done at a lower than room temperature. but most things we want to keep like myrcene, pinene, linalool, and others, evaporate or start degrading above 212 F, boiling point of water.

 

[Lysemith, Lowkey]

and qwizoking: how do you decarb for edibles? just exposure to the elements? citric acid? I am sooo curious.
My method for decarbing and preserving the flavonoids is to vacuum seal my product for edibles in a sous vide bag with my butter and a few ice cubes, and cook it at 160F for about 3-4 hours. the act of vacuum sealing everything in the bag forces the flavonoids to stay in solution.

 

[qwizoking]

I have used an acid and other traditional means to decarb the solution through standard chem rxn's but thc seems to be to unstable and quickly oxidizes or otherwise degrades..refluxing is the technical term for your decarbing method.. and while I'm sure that works efficiently and preserves flavor....when I decarb its going to be specifically for edibles and I don't worry about flavor. In my personal opinion (and yes I have lots of patience) the most potent decarbed oil or whatever is decarbed naturally.. I'm sure you've all seen the graph of the decarbing at whatever temp for however long..its on skunkpharm and elsewhere, its a function of thc being decarbed and the rates of degredation from those high temps.....thca at room temp will be decarbed at about 4 months in a sealed container. You can make that 2 months with a fan...I've personally seen testing (besides just studies, that suggest this time frame) that show complete decarboxlation as well as a higher thc content than bud or oil that used a heated decarb......

So to conclude..my natural decarb might not be as flavorful I don't know for sure, but I have seen testing showing higher thc content using this method....though I realize most don't have the amount of bud to store that long

 

[Bublonichronic]

I want to smoke ur avatar qwizo...

 

[vacpurge]

I want to smoke ur avatar qwizo...

lol qwizo... for such a smart guy your avatar/scrape methods sure disappoint me!!!!! looks like you struggled to scrape a thin layer of some rock hard dried shatter from a dish, and all it did was flake and get all over your fingers!!!

personally, ive found when you heat that white flakey powder up, or the dish, it turns right back into a nice scrapable oil. and when you hold the razor with forceps, it doesnt get allll over your fingers!!!!

 

[qwizoking]

Yea man that was the point... the thread I put that pic in was asking what the finished purged product t looked like. This is not scraped at all but simply scooped up right out my dish. And yes when heated and compressed it turned red. I put all those pics in that thread as well... this was by no means supposed to represent the most pure extract or anything. As I specifically posted it in the thread to show the difference between heated and non heated evap and what the product looks like after purge... this powder is the finished product t of an unwinterized minute long soak and only filtered through a coffee filter... it represents what an average iso run should end up as after purge.. I scraped nothing, and its not sticky. I could scoop up a bowl of that powder with a spoon or pinch with fingers and it doesn't melt together or stick....

In the progressive pics you can see me melt the powder to the oil then what it finally looks like in its melted clumped wax state
https://www.rollitup.org/medicating/732569-first-2-qwiso-batches-please-4.html#post9688221

Me showing my purged product....again the purpose was not to show off perfect hash but merely what proper purged iso hash should end up as

 

[vacpurge]

ahh there we go, that makes more sense. hidden in the medicating thread thats why I missed it the first time.

good way to confirm if its fully purged or not thats for sure, I just HATE scraping that powder. I find it easier to heat the dish, and turn that powder into an oil then scrape it, but im sure you know that.