Experienced Electrician! Here to Answer Any and All Growroom Electrical Questions

[7eyegrasser]

Hi, i need to wire up a TopTronic TMDT2 24Hour timer switch so i can run my lights 12/12 is this possible and how do i wire it?

Thanks

 

[contraptionated]

every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol.

If its wrong you need to prove it. You can't just say it is incorrect. You probably think its wrong because you don't know that you need to use the 75 degree column of table 310.16 because the circuit breaker can only be rated up to the 75 degree column. The only thing I was wrong about was the ballast load because I didn't use a calculator ( I did it quick off the top of my head) . You are only right about that. The actual ballast load is about 19800 watts. I only stand corrected on that , but that is all the more reason to upsize the wire from #4 to #3. So, my advice to use that size wire is still correct. I'm humble enough to admit when I'm wrong (you were right about the ballast load calc but thats it) but next time you correct someone you bear the burden of doing the calculation and giving the correct answer . Just saying I'm wrong is not enough.

 

[contraptionated]

every calculated value in this statement is wrong lol.

P.S. I'm waiting and every wire ampacity value ( including #4 only being good for 85 amps) comes directly from the NEC. What reference manual do you base your statement on??My equipment (wire, grounding requirements) suggestions are very much correct, so from what I remember ,legallyflying asked me about the wire size and grounding and that was correct yet you only pointed out a minor mathematical error in how I got there but couldn't point out whether or not I was correct in answering the 4 questions he(or she) asked. When I see a partial error in someone's post I have enough class to first point out what was done correctly (in this case the answers to all 4 questions are correct) and then point out minor errors later. First give credit where its due, then point out the mistakes (which in this case did not steer legallyflying wrong because the end results were all correct answers) in where I was " thinking out loud".

 

[legallyflying]

I will say that the recommendations you gave are directly inline with what I heard on other forums. Need to use #3 thhn.

So my grounding bar on my controller panel is not bonded to the box then?
There seems to be a screw in the binding bar that serves to bind it with the panel.

Can you confirm that the ground and neutral bars are essentially the same in my controller panel? I mean I will have bare copper grounding wire coming from the grounding/neutral bar in my main panel going to the grounding bar and a #10 thhn wire going from the neutral/grounding bar in my main panel going to the neutral bar in my controller panel.

So since both bars in my controller panel are connected to the neutral/grounding bars in my panel...can I just route grounds and neutral wires to either bar in the controller panel?

Does this make sense? I'm just curious because in the main panel in my house, neutral and grounds go to the same bar.
Is that because they are bonded?

Almost done with the panel, just waiting on the delay relays from china

Oh..btw, I have to use 10 gauge wire on y plugs because I'm using 30 amp double pole breakers.

 

[contraptionated]

I will say that the recommendations you gave are directly inline with what I heard on other forums. Need to use #3 thhn.

So my grounding bar on my controller panel is not bonded to the box then?
There seems to be a screw in the binding bar that serves to bind it with the panel.

Can you confirm that the ground and neutral bars are essentially the same in my controller panel? I mean I will have bare copper grounding wire coming from the grounding/neutral bar in my main panel going to the grounding bar and a #10 thhn wire going from the neutral/grounding bar in my main panel going to the neutral bar in my controller panel.

So since both bars in my controller panel are connected to the neutral/grounding bars in my panel...can I just route grounds and neutral wires to either bar in the controller panel?

Does this make sense? I'm just curious because in the main panel in my house, neutral and grounds go to the same bar.
Is that because they are bonded?

Almost done with the panel, just waiting on the delay relays from china

Oh..btw, I have to use 10 gauge wire on y plugs because I'm using 30 amp double pole breakers.

The separation between the grounding and neutral bar in the sub panel is done to prevent parallel pathways for short circuit current to travel through to earth ground. In the event if a short circuit or even a lightning strike the over current would be able to find the shortest path to earth by keeping them separate everywhere else except for the main panel. As for the 30 amp receptacles, I was under the impression that each 240 volt receptacle was for each individual lighting (1000 watt) ballast and that was why I suggested the possibility of them being supplied by 15 amp branch circuits. What appliances are you running that require 30 amp / 2-pole branch circuits? The only thing I could think of off the top of my head would be the possibility of a condenser unit. You're not using those 240V/30 amp receptacles for lighting...are you?

 

[legallyflying]

The breakers for each pair of 240 receptacles are 30 amp. Why? because they were on sale. Yes, the total of the breakers in the control panel are more than 100 amps.. but whatever, I figure the 100 amp breaker in the main panel would pop before any real problems occurred.

But back to my question... if the bars on my control panel are not connected together, does it matter where i connect the neutral and ground wires? Stated another way... DO all my grounds need to be connected to one bar and the other bar just have the neutral connections for my 120 circuit?

Thanks a bunch, appreciate your help.

 

[contraptionated]

Yes. All your grounding (green) wires need to be on one bar that is mounted on plastic insulators so that it will not bond with the enclosure. All the ground (white) wires need to be on the other bar. Just interconnect the neutral bar with the neutral wire originating from the main panel and interconnect the grounding (green) bar with the green wire coming from the bonding lug of the main panel. The 30 amp breakers are totally wrong and are a fire hazard if used for 240V ballast receptacles. 1000w Lights cant be supplied by a 30 amp breaker unless there is a separate overcurrent protection downstream between the 30 amp breaker and the point where current is tapped for the primary of the ballast (usually a cartridge fuse contained in a 2-piece fuse holding socket).I can't sign off on that one.

 

[legallyflying]

I have NEVER heard such a thing. Never. Each circuit is pulling 18 or 19 amps so why is a 30 amp breaker on the circuit incorrect? A 20 amp breaker would be popping all the time.

Even store bought light controllers employ the same deal. I have an 8k watt control box and it says "wire to 40 amp breaker" on it.

There is no internal fuses or anything at all in there, just a series of relays.

 

[ogreb]

Putting in too high of breaker.
Let's say a 30 amp in a 15 amp slot.
Your breaker won't pop...your wiring will melt. Next thing you know...fire !

Amperage and correct wire gauge are imperative.

 

[legallyflying]

Which is why I have #10 romex wiring from breaker to relay to each double gang receptacle.

And I using the heavy duty 15 amp receptacles that are back wired and not run through the little metal connection tabs

 

[legallyflying]

How could a ballast actually draw enough amps to hurt the receptacle..or wiring anyways? If there is a short then it will trip the breaker. My understanding was you need an actual live load to pull more amps? And they are all digital ballasts which careful modulate the current draw. Honestly, I just can't see where that is a fire hazard.

The only thing that isn't rated for 30 amps is the receptacle. And honestly, when wired correctly have you ever seen a receptacle melt?

 

[contraptionated]

I have NEVER heard such a thing. Never. Each circuit is pulling 18 or 19 amps so why is a 30 amp breaker on the circuit incorrect? A 20 amp breaker would be popping all the time.

Even store bought light controllers employ the same deal. I have an 8k watt control box and it says "wire to 40 amp breaker" on it.

There is no internal fuses or anything at all in there, just a series of relays.

Its not easy to size a circuit for somebody when they don't tell you exactly what is plugged into it. What is it that you have drawing 19 amps? I even mentioned before that I had to assume you were plugging in a 1000 watt ballast. So now it sounds like you have much more than one 1000 watt ballast connected to each 240V line am I correct? You mentioned that its 240V and now I finally find out that its drawing 19 amps (on each pole of the breaker, am I correct?) so instead of assuming I'm a mind reader just tell me what you have connected to what and then I can size everything correctly? Also, a 30 amp line is common when the lighting is far away (think pole lighting located around an outdoor field) and the wire is up sized to prevent voltage drop. The over current (fuse in this case) is stepped down to 15 amps with a fuse holder at the base of the pole. I know you don't have a ball field in your basement but that is one of the few situations where a 30 amp line is used with a fuse holder in between. It was just an example and I would never want you to use those fuses that's why I suggest lower over current protection. So, for the love of all things holy, just tell me what and how you connected it to that 240V/30Amp line and then I can tell you if you're good? Fair enough?

 

[legallyflying]

This is where I should get off my ass and take a picture. However, I spent the last 8 hours trimming. This is the 4th night in a row that this has happened.

Anywho..the short and short of it.. Each 30 amp breaker powers 4 sockets, each of which will have a 1,000 ballast plug into them.

So each breaker is going to be loaded with about 4,750 watts. (Turbo mode + draw of ballast intself). Given voltage of around 230-240 this yields around 20.5 amps constant load per breaker.

It's kind of a moot point now. It's wired already, I have run rooms with identical set ups and never had a problem.

Now I just have to install the time delay relays and integrate the shut of thermostat and I'm good to go.

Oh yeah. There is also the matter of final inspection by the county of the house that sits on top of the sub basement grow room.

10 feet under ground bitches!!! LOL

 

[Gregor Mendel]

hi i need advice this is my 1st time growing .i am currently using a fan heater and that is in my tank but this wind is warm can that compensate for the fan for wind circulation as well as keeping the temperature constant ?

 

[contraptionated]

This is where I should get off my ass and take a picture. However, I spent the last 8 hours trimming. This is the 4th night in a row that this has happened.

Anywho..the short and short of it.. Each 30 amp breaker powers 4 sockets, each of which will have a 1,000 ballast plug into them.

So each breaker is going to be loaded with about 4,750 watts. (Turbo mode + draw of ballast intself). Given voltage of around 230-240 this yields around 20.5 amps constant load per breaker.

It's kind of a moot point now. It's wired already, I have run rooms with identical set ups and never had a problem.

Now I just have to install the time delay relays and integrate the shut of thermostat and I'm good to go.

Oh yeah. There is also the matter of final inspection by the county of the house that sits on top of the sub basement grow room.

10 feet under ground bitches!!! LOL

I totally feel your pain with the trimming. I tried every machine that exists and all that happens is damaged product. I had a feeling you had 4-1000's on each 2-pole 30amp circuit. You're right about the breaker but , yes , I have seen a receptacle melt right before my eyes. The wire terminated to the screw also went on fire . But that was with old TW wire. The kind that has fabric insulation coated with an insulating varnish. Realistically though, if you have a prob with an over current on one ballast, all four will go out because of the 4-gang parallel connection and according to code you would need to have the fuse holder (with a 15 amp cartridge fuse) supplying each ballast) whether or not the ballast is 240V or 120V. Look it up in article 240 of the NEC ( if my memory serves me correctly). It might be working for you, but its not code.

 

[contraptionated]

hi i need advice this is my 1st time growing .i am currently using a fan heater and that is in my tank but this wind is warm can that compensate for the fan for wind circulation as well as keeping the temperature constant ?

I need more details on this tank. What is this tank holding? Also, try to split the grow into two rooms on a flip cycle so that you will not need to waste money on a heater. I know it isn't always possible to do that but if its in the cards it is definitely worth a rebuild if the fan/heater is using a lot of current.

 

[contraptionated]

Hello, so how do i go about making sure my box can handle another circuit. I have three slots unused and only want to add two 15 amp new ones. So far every thing runs and has not tripped any breakers but i just added a 600watt hps and want to run it on its own and the rest of the room on its own, hence the two new circuits i want to add. if it all works now am i good to just wire and go or what. thanks for any advice. I know enough not to burn down my house or kill myself, but thats where it ends

Tell about the main panel. What's the current rating of the main? Do you have a 220V single phase (2 hots and a neutral) or do you have the very rare 120V main (1 hot and 1 neutral)? What branch circuits do you have in the panel? Any high ampere rating appliances like a spa heater, electric heating etc? Give me an idea of what might be drawing current at any given time simultaneously and then I can give my suggestions.

 

[TallieMcCannabis]

Hi there fellow RIU'ers... Over and over again I continualy see new threads and posts about electrical work question and thought I would post a couple threads to help you guys the same way all of you who have done such a great job having helped me... So, Do you have a grow room question about how to wire something up, or what are the safest ways of doing things? The most important one I see alot is people running lights and fans off power chords... I have wired my own grow room and will post an example of my work.

Please, if you have any questions and are unsure of what to do or if what you are doing is safe, PLEASE! ask me first if you are even a tad bit unsure. I would hate to hear anyone have an electrical fire because they didn't quite know what they were doing when all they needed to do was to ask a couple of questions... I will do my best to point you in the right direction.

If you want to do some wiring your self, I will either let you know if your project is too complicated if your not handy with electrical, or, IF YOU ASK, I will walk you thru your project step by step.

So please, ASK AWAY!!!

You can post questions here but you may not get your question answerd on the thread, best way to go about it is PM me. You will forsure get a response back.

PS Even if you have basic around the home electrical questions, shoot em my way.

Hello, so how do i go about making sure my box can handle another circuit. I have three slots unused and only want to add two 15 amp new ones. So far every thing runs and has not tripped any breakers but i just added a 600watt hps and want to run it on its own and the rest of the room on its own, hence the two new circuits i want to add. if it all works now am i good to just wire and go or what. thanks for any advice. I know enough not to burn down my house or kill myself, but thats where it ends

 

[legallyflying]

^ look at the big fuse at the top of your panel. That fuse is what your panel is rated for. Usually 100,150, or 200

Then add up the amps for big appliances like dish washers, hot water heaters, ovens, etc. if you have electric appliances and not allot of amps left, don't use them with your lights on.

 

[Gregor Mendel]

OK space not that available for 2 rooms maybe later.but the fish tank is about 4 ft high and 3 ft wide with a height of 3 ft as well.the tank is holding about 4 plants in it with 2 fluorescent tubes on top and the plants are in soil pots. im not so familiar with the flip cycle method ? oh and the current for the fan heater is ok however im just concerned about the fact that i might get the plants infected with fungus or something thats why i wanted to know is this warm air the fan supplying enough for wind circulation well. so yeah thanx for the reply i appreciate it .