Suspended Planter 600w Cool Tube + DS300 LED

[Roomie]

Veg - Day 21

Seven days after defoliation.

I'm continuing a 10,10,10 ml/gal BPN nute schedule at 930 ppm. The pH is never far from 5.8. I top the res every 3-4 days with either one gallon worth of nutrients, or one gallon of fresh water (depending on ppm and/or pH). The LED is about 21 to 23 inches above the plants, and the plants are now 10 inches tall. RH is still a little low at 35% but rising every day. Temps are 66 degrees at night, 75 during lights on. I'm installing the 2x3" chicken wire tonight, so the shitstorm that is SCROG starts tomorrow! (nervous)

A question. I read a lot of conflicting information about when to start flowering in a SCROG. Some people recommend switching to 12/12 when the leaves grow a couple inches past the screen, others say fill 75% of the screen and then flower. What would you advise? I failed to SCROG properly during my first grow. It was overgrown, overcrowded and a bit of a headfuck.

Thanks!

 

[whodatnation]

Looking great.

When to flower depends on a couple different factors... Genetics and growing method (dirt hydro ec) Hydro will obviously fill the screen faster, but it mainly depends on how much your particular strain stretches during flowering.
If it were me I would fill the screen out at 70% (looks like shes a stretcher) and train all growth for the first week or so. Try and keep a really flat canopy. Dont want all that popcorn again!

Looking real nice.

 

[Hiker]

I agree with the 70-75% number. I always tried to have essentially nothing growing above the screen/net before I flipped. At first I tried to have the net full, but that was always too much. You know which plants are filling faster and the direction the various branches are growing. Leave a coupe thin sections of the net to get filled in during the stretch. I continued to shove branches under the net up until nugs started to form.

 

[Roomie]

10-4 copy that, it is decided. I will fill 70% of the screen before flowering, and then continue tucking throughout most of the stretch. I really appreciate the help.


I'm guessing one more week of veg.

 

[Swisher Twister]

Lookin' awesome mayne! Don't know how I wasn't subbed already, but I am now!

A few questions if ya don't mind...
How big are the holes in your ScrOG net? I am trying to ScrOG my next grow for the first time, and am liking how your frame looks compared to the wood ones I've seen... Also how high up from your medium is the net?

Love the setup tho, definitely rolling one up and along for the ride!

 

[whodatnation]

Rolling along nicely I see

 

[Swisher Twister]

Jesus... never mind, you conveniently located that information earlier in the thread... My bad yo!

 

[Mechanical]

Love the scrog.. Subbed! I think the trick to scrogging is making sure your screen is filled with bud sites and not just foliage. Looks like you have more than a week left but you know your plants and their stretching tendencies.. With that 600w you will be able to grow some decent sized buds so you need to give them some plant above the screen after the stretch. Good luck to ya

 

[Hiker]

I agree with Mechanical. Based on that picture, I would say you probably have a little more than a week left, but like he said, you know how your plants are growing better than us. You probably don't want to go 2 weeks though.

He also is spot on with the recommendation about being mindful of what exactly is filling that canopy. You don't just want a bunch of fan leaves and stems. You're trying to get a couple buds/branches in each opening. You don't want to keep training them all the way through the stretch. They stretch for a reason, to make room for big fat buds! I may have mislead a little when I said I trained until nugs started forming. By 'nugs', I just meant the little hair clusters starting. The strain I grew in SD would start growing flowers early in the stretch phase. I don't know your strain, but assuming the stretch lasts 2 weeks, I would stop training after the first week or so. You want those little bud branches to already be growing up through the screen before the stretch stops. Again, it is very dependent on the strain. If this is the first scrog with this strain, treat it as an experiment. You can do one area or plant one way, and do something else in another part of the screen or with another plant. Just keep notes so you can remember what you did. Then at the end you will know what works best for your strain.

 

[Roomie]

I would totally give you guys a share of my lottery winnings. Very grateful for the insight.

One week of veg is probably wishful thinking. I'm just worried that two more weeks could push the limit of my tray (four plants in a 2' x 2' x 4" flood area). I'm not sure if that's a valid concern or not. Also, Hiker, thanks for clarifying on how long to tuck and bugger through the stretch. This strain seemed to stretch forever, easily around 21 days. I do imagine stretching will change under a 600w HPS + LED compared to a single 300w LED for flower.

This is my SCROG after stretch during the first grow. It's rather painful to look at, isn't it? I believe the branches are ridiculously high, the plants are not spread out evenly across the screen, and I did a piss poor job of trimming.

 

[Mechanical]

One of the problems with your previous scrog is you have 5 plants in a small screen. Not that it cant be done but your not giving yourself any horizontal room under there. What size is your screen and how high is it above the tray cause it looks to be about a foot in the pic? It looks like they got to the screen, you started flowering, and then stopped training. Now you have 4 which is better but its still going to get crowded. You need to get your main stalk running sideways on all of them. You said you have a 2x4 space to work with but your not utilizing all of your space. Can you make your screen longer? It would make your life alot easier, training wise, if you could and increase your yield. If not you just have to work with what you got. I cant really tell how your training these but shoot for a swastika pattern.

This is my last scrogs undergrowth and how I trained them. There was only two of them in a 2'x2' area so I had more training room and my screen was only 7'' above the pots so they started training early..


Do you have a pic of your last grow right before you flipped 12/12?

 

[Roomie]

Very good points. My first screen was 12 inches high, this one is 8 inches. The dimension of my first SCROG was originally determined by the coverage area of my LED, which was only 2.5' x 2.5'. For this grow, I thought I read that 32" was the sweet spot for one 600 watt HID. Maybe that was shit info? Hmm. Lastly, I'm training the branches in a spiral pattern, but it's not too late for a swastika. Thank you.

My grow logs were conveniently erased from my phone, so I don't have specific dates. I know I was training plants weeks after flower. I specifically remember thinking they had finally stopped stretching, so I stopped training, but then they just kept growing up and up. I was also a little overzealous in trying to keep bud sites under the core coverage of light. That might have lead to unnecessary overcrowding as well.

Flower - Day 1 (Feb 2012)

 

[Mechanical]

Well those look awesome!! Just went a little wild on you at the end.. Spiral or swastika.. Same thing really. There is so much debate over how much space each lights cover. Some say 3x3 and some say 4x4 for a 600. I think it can cover a 2x4 with no problem. With a scrog you can even let the outer colas grow a little taller seeing that they will be further away.. All in all you seem like you know what your doing.. Keep it up

 

[Hiker]

Those look great Roomie.

Again, I have to agree with Mechanical. He sort of touched on it, but there is one detail I want to point out though. In his picture, you can see that the main trunk/branch is entirely under the screen. That's the goal. Only secondary branches are allowed to grow "up". Even then, keep those tucked until you turn the plants loose. Your last picture looks perfect to me. I might have filled out the sides a little more, again like Mechanical said. A swastika (never occurred to me to use that description LOL) is basically the same as a spiral/corkscrew. Basically, you're growing that main branch around the screen, or in my case, each bucket. It does sort of end up like a swastika when you're done, depending on whether you train them clockwise or counterclockwise. I wonder if there is any difference based on which hemisphere you're on? I know that affects the movement of water in a drain, so maybe it affects movement inside the plants as well?

Don't forget to clean up the area under the screen too. You need a lot of airflow under a scrog IMHO. Nothing really develops down there, so it's better to strip the branches clean and let the plant use those resources up above where it matters. Obviously don't remove everything before you turn them loose, but just keep this in mind when you stop training them.

One last thought... don't be afraid to re-position branches. If one area starts to get too full and there is an emptier area, move things around. I remember untangling some looooong branches to move them over to other parts of the screen. Just be careful.

That leads me to one other tip... Do this stuff right before a flood cycle (I can't recall if you're doing flood/drain or not). It is easier to bend the branches when the plants are limp.

WARNING: science/botany information ahead...
There is something called "turgor pressure" in botany. When a plant cell is well hydrated, it will be "plump", and it's cell walls will be pushed outward. This is it's "turgor pressure". As a plant starts to dehydrate, the cells lose some of their moisture and turgor pressure falls. When you're trying to bend a stem, it helps if the turgor pressure of the cells is lower. Otherwise, when you try to bend the stem, and therefore the cells, you are increasing the pressure within the cells. If they are already stretched, that's when the cell walls rupture, and you snap a stem. If you ever see your plants get a little droopy looking, that's what's happening, low turgor pressure. That's also the best time to train the plant. Just remember to ALWAYS be careful and you shouldn't have any problems.

OK sorry about that. You may already know all that, but maybe someone else reading this will learn something

 

[Roomie]

Of course, we're all referring to the original translation of the Sanskrit svastika, or "to be good."


@Mechanical I'll get those main stem runnin' sideways. I had most of the information for my first grow, I just lacked the experience to understand what was happening. Thanks again for the quality input.

@Hiker I did not know about turgor pressure, and I do run flood&drain. Important info. I'll start training before floods, especially during flower when my stems seem to grow stiffer. And for the love of god, science does not need a disclaimer. Bring it!

 

[Mechanical]

No problem I studied weed growing for about 5 years before my first grow. Mostly because I didn't have anywhere safe to grow. Y'all see anything outta wack with my grow PLEASE let me know and by all means bring on the science

 

[Roomie]

For The Record

- First day of veg was December 10th (2" tall).
- 70% defoliation on day 15 (8-10" tall).
- Started 24" x 32" x 8" SCROG on day 21 (plants growing past the screen).
- 30% defoliation on day 25
- Total veg time was 29 days.


Blue Planet Nutrient 3-Part PPM History

wk 1 - 400ppm
wk 2 - 500
wk 3 - 700
wk 4 - 900
wk 5 - 1000
wk 6 - 1100ppm (includes 2ml/gal Liquid Blue)

* Following BPN nutrient schedule, or slightly under.

Day 27

- Light schedule is 18/6.
- The DS300 is 21-22" from screen.
- Floods every 3 hours for 15 minutes.
- No drooping until the last hour or two before lights out.
- Res change every two weeks.
- pH maintained daily at 5.8.
- Temps: High 78f, Low 65f.
- Passive intake drawing air from heated office instead of crawl space.
- Humidity still at 30-40%.

Roots on Day 27:

After hearing a few sub par taste tests of Bloombastic, I decided to order the optional bloom boosters from Blue Plant Nutrients. Liquid Blue starts at 2ml/gal one week before flower. Early Bloomer starts on Day 1 at 5ml/gal. Fair price.

Anyway, I have everything I need to finish the grow. I accidentally ordered an 8 inch cool tube for the 600w HPS. I'm running a 4" 171 cfm exhaust fan, so I just ordered an 8x4 duct reducer and skipped the hassle of exchanging for a new tube. Considering I'm clearing a 2x4x7 closet more than 3x per minute, I think the reducer will suffice.

Speaking of exhaust fans. I used to have the centrifugal fan mounted to studs in my closet wall. It was horribly noisy, especially with the speed control below 50%. I could literally feel the vibration through the headboard of my bed in the adjacent room. Concerned, I tried hanging the fan from my light bar with thin dynamic rope. The noise and vibes are all but gone. The fan even seems to operate better. I win!

 

[Mechanical]

For The Record

- First day of veg was December 10th (2" tall).
- 70% defoliation on day 15 (8-10" tall).
- Started 24" x 32" x 8" SCROG on day 21 (plants growing past the screen).
- 30% defoliation on day 25
- Estimated veg time of 35 days.


Blue Planet Nutrient 3-Part PPM History

wk 1 - 400ppm
wk 2 - 500
wk 3 - 700
wk 4 - 900
wk 5 - 1000
wk 6 - 1100ppm (includes 2ml/gal Liquid Blue)

* Following BPN nutrient schedule, or slightly under.

Day 27

- Light schedule is 18/6.
- The DS300 is 21-22" from screen. Based on plant folding/hiding.
- I flood every 3 hours for 15 minutes.
- No drooping until the last hour or two before lights out.
- Res change every two weeks.
- pH maintained daily at 5.8.
- Temps: High 78f, Low 65f.
- Passive intake drawing air from heated office, instead of crawl space.
- Humidity still at 30-40%.

Roots on Day 27:

After hearing a few sub par taste tests of Bloombastic, I decided to order the optional bloom boosters from Blue Plant Nutrients. Liquid Blue starts at 2ml/gal one week before flower. Early Bloomer starts on Day 1 at 5ml/gal. Fair price.

Anyway, I have everything I need to finish the grow. I accidentally ordered an 8 inch cool tube for the 600w HPS. I'm running a 4" 171 cfm exhaust fan, so I just ordered an 8x4 duct reducer and skipped the hassle of exchanging for a new tube. Considering I'm clearing a 2x4x7 closet more than 3x per minute, I think the reducer will suffice.

Speaking of exhaust fans. I used to have the centrifugal fan mounted to studs in my closet wall. It was horribly noisy, especially with the speed control below 50%. I could literally feel the vibration through the headboard of my bed in the adjacent room. Concerned, I tried hanging the fan from my light bar with thin dynamic rope. The noise and vibes are all but gone. The fan even seems to operate better. I win!

Holy shit those are some good looking roots brother!!

 

[Roomie]

Veg - Day 28

I haven't trained yet today so they're a little wild. This is after trimming about 20% of the fan leaves poking above the screen, and defoliating everything 4 inches and below.

Sorry, auto-focus is MIA.

 

[Mechanical]

How much longer are you gonna wait to flip? I wouldnt wait much longer the way those stretch..